protein arguement

[ritch]

what's with this pussy advice of 150 grams of protein tops? No wonder getbiggers have such shitty bodies...

OP... First chose your goal. You wanna gain muscle or burn fat? Gain muscle AND burn fat is not possible unless you're a newbie, just took a long lay off or are running a huge ass stack. No the muscletech one...

[L.L]

the more protein the better...eat up .boy

[oldtimer1]

I really wonder if any bodybuilder needs a high protein diet?  Don't get me wrong I use whey protein but I have never heard good research on why we need extra protein to bodybuild. Most of what I heard is just a broken record with no back up from protein powder sellers.

 There was a good point brought up by Clarence Bass that extra protein isn't needed for growth awhile back. The only decent real research on protein requirements for both weight trainers and endurance athletes was conducted by Mark A. Tarnopolsky PHD. His research says  0.5 to 1.0 grams per pound of bodyweight. That 1.0 grams is for elite athletes. A massive amount of protein calories will end up as fat anyway.

[ritch]

^^^ athletes and bb'ers are two different breeds. And if you're gonna wait to have research to point you in what direction to go for muscle gain, good luck! No money to be made by anyone on this, so don't expect any proof any time soon.

There is a reason why bb'ers do what they do. the university of bro science has more successful jacked graduates knowing what to do than the pencil neck pencil pushers and that is good enough for me as my own real life research proves this to be right.

[oldtimer1]

^^^ athletes and bb'ers are two different breeds. And if you're gonna wait to have research to point you in what direction to go for muscle gain, good luck! No money to be made by anyone on this, so don't expect any proof any time soon.

There is a reason why bb'ers do what they do. the university of bro science has more successful jacked graduates knowing what to do than the pencil neck pencil pushers and that is good enough for me as my own real life research proves this to be right.

No money to be made on pushing protein supplements with bs studies?  If you are saying bodybuilders are not athletes maybe you are right. Protein supplements have been pushed for over 50 years by bodybuilding magazines that sell them. The early ones I'm aware of is Hoffman protein tablets and Weider Wildcat 101 back in the early 60's. University bro science? Is that term learned when studing rocket science because I don't know what that refers to.

[MCWAY]

what's with this pussy advice of 150 grams of protein tops? No wonder getbiggers have such shitty bodies...

OP... First chose your goal. You wanna gain muscle or burn fat? Gain muscle AND burn fat is not possible unless you're a newbie, just took a long lay off or are running a huge ass stack. No the muscletech one...

I didn't advice that. What I said was that, with regards to the recommendation of 4-5 cans of tuna and some carbs, such would give 150 grams of protein, tops.

The next statement was, "You might want to throw in some beef and whole eggs.

As far as a guy with DanielPaul's dimensions go, he'll probably need more than that.

You may also recall that I mentioned the basic rule of thumb of 1 gram per pound of bodyweight. Since DanielPaul weighs 225 that's 225 grams of protein. He may need more or less, based on his body; but, that's a good place to start.

[ritch]

No money to be made on pushing protein supplements with bs studies?  If you are saying bodybuilders are not athletes maybe you are right. Protein supplements have been pushed for over 50 years by bodybuilding magazines that sell them. The early ones I'm aware of is Hoffman protein tablets and Weider Wildcat 101 back in the early 60's. University bro science? Is that term learned when studing rocket science because I don't know what that refers to.

It was a failed attempt at humour... Bro science is refering to what works best as said by the bro's... Feel free to conduct your own "science", lol...

[MCWAY]

^^^ athletes and bb'ers are two different breeds. And if you're gonna wait to have research to point you in what direction to go for muscle gain, good luck! No money to be made by anyone on this, so don't expect any proof any time soon.

There is a reason why bb'ers do what they do. the university of bro science has more successful jacked graduates knowing what to do than the pencil neck pencil pushers and that is good enough for me as my own real life research proves this to be right.

But, if some people insist on getting advice from someone with a medical degree, check my thread with the Weider Nutrition video. There's a basic discussion with Dr. Franco Columbu (former 2-time Mr. Olympia). You'll also find out about a new source of protein called "breast chickens".

[SF1900]

NUTRIENT TIMING IS KEY.....CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  This man is very smart!

Thank you fallsview.  I agree with you that proper nutrient timing is key. Without it, you cannot build muscle.

[ritch]

But, if some people insist on getting advice from someone with a medical degree, check my thread with the Weider Nutrition video. There's a basic discussion with Dr. Franco Columbu (former 2-time Mr. Olympia). You'll also find out about a new source of protein called "breast chickens".

damn, gonna have to look into that. Franco is always so interesting to listen to, hypnotic like!!!

[MCWAY]

damn, gonna have to look into that. Franco is always so interesting to listen to, hypnotic like!!!

I just bumped it. Check it out.

[tbombz]

i honestly think that it depends on your personal belief about whats necessary


there was a point where i was eating 400 grams per day, and if i were to eat only 200-300 i would look and feel soft the next day.


but nowdays there will be times when i only get 50-100 grams per day and i still make progress.



i mean, when you really think about it, while your body does use protein for more than just muscle growth and while tissues do need some protein to sustain themselves even when not growing ... the amount of protein necessary ot provide for these functions is quite low..  id say probably 20-30 grams of protein per day would be sufficient for those purpouises..     and then non top of that we have muscle growth and repair assocuated with various stimulus..   and lets say we grow one poound of muscle per month if we are making good progress... thats around 100grams of protein i think.. divided over 30 days.. thats only about 3 grams of protein per day..    so lets double that to account for repair as well... and add on a few  grams just for the hell of it.. so lets say 10 grams of protein per day on top of the 30 or so necessary for basic functions... so 40-50 grams per day would be sufficient to grow optimally and stay healthy... but of course real life experience says different.. and this is probably because you never know when your body will need the protein so you gotta have a good amount of it so its always available...  however if you eat slow digesting protien and sufficient calories from other sources then you should be fine...... 

^^just my opiinion based on what works for me...  do what works for you...     

[James28]

i honestly think that it depends on your personal belief about whats necessary


there was a point where i was eating 400 grams per day, and if i were to eat only 200-300 i would look and feel soft the next day.


but nowdays there will be times when i only get 50-100 grams per day and i still make progress.



i mean, when you really think about it, while your body does use protein for more than just muscle growth and while tissues do need some protein to sustain themselves even when not growing ... the amount of protein necessary ot provide for these functions is quite low..  id say probably 20-30 grams of protein per day would be sufficient for those purpouises..     and then non top of that we have muscle growth and repair assocuated with various stimulus..   and lets say we grow one poound of muscle per month if we are making good progress... thats around 100grams of protein i think.. divided over 30 days.. thats only about 3 grams of protein per day..    so lets double that to account for repair as well... and add on a few  grams just for the hell of it.. so lets say 10 grams of protein per day on top of the 30 or so necessary for basic functions... so 40-50 grams per day would be sufficient to grow optimally and stay healthy... but of course real life experience says different.. and this is probably because you never know when your body will need the protein so you gotta have a good amount of it so its always available...  however if you eat slow digesting protien and sufficient calories from other sources then you should be fine...... 

^^just my opiinion based on what works for me...  do what works for you...     

Maybe that's why you got so fat?

[Schmoff]

i honestly think that it depends on your personal belief about whats necessary


there was a point where i was eating 400 grams per day, and if i were to eat only 200-300 i would look and feel soft the next day.


but nowdays there will be times when i only get 50-100 grams per day and i still make progress.



i mean, when you really think about it, while your body does use protein for more than just muscle growth and while tissues do need some protein to sustain themselves even when not growing ... the amount of protein necessary ot provide for these functions is quite low..  id say probably 20-30 grams of protein per day would be sufficient for those purpouises..     and then non top of that we have muscle growth and repair assocuated with various stimulus..   and lets say we grow one poound of muscle per month if we are making good progress... thats around 100grams of protein i think.. divided over 30 days.. thats only about 3 grams of protein per day..    so lets double that to account for repair as well... and add on a few  grams just for the hell of it.. so lets say 10 grams of protein per day on top of the 30 or so necessary for basic functions... so 40-50 grams per day would be sufficient to grow optimally and stay healthy... but of course real life experience says different.. and this is probably because you never know when your body will need the protein so you gotta have a good amount of it so its always available...  however if you eat slow digesting protien and sufficient calories from other sources then you should be fine...... 

^^just my opiinion based on what works for me...  do what works for you...     

 

 

[DroppingPlates]

Maybe that's why you got so fat?

Depends rather on his carb & fat intake

[ritch]

i honestly think that it depends on your personal belief about whats necessary


there was a point where i was eating 400 grams per day, and if i were to eat only 200-300 i would look and feel soft the next day.


but nowdays there will be times when i only get 50-100 grams per day and i still make progress.



i mean, when you really think about it, while your body does use protein for more than just muscle growth and while tissues do need some protein to sustain themselves even when not growing ... the amount of protein necessary ot provide for these functions is quite low..  id say probably 20-30 grams of protein per day would be sufficient for those purpouises..     and then non top of that we have muscle growth and repair assocuated with various stimulus..   and lets say we grow one poound of muscle per month if we are making good progress... thats around 100grams of protein i think.. divided over 30 days.. thats only about 3 grams of protein per day..    so lets double that to account for repair as well... and add on a few  grams just for the hell of it.. so lets say 10 grams of protein per day on top of the 30 or so necessary for basic functions... so 40-50 grams per day would be sufficient to grow optimally and stay healthy... but of course real life experience says different.. and this is probably because you never know when your body will need the protein so you gotta have a good amount of it so its always available...  however if you eat slow digesting protien and sufficient calories from other sources then you should be fine...... 

^^just my opiinion based on what works for me...  do what works for you...     

you got no say here, when you get a build (years away fro this) come back and tell us how to build a physique.

[MCWAY]

wes, i understand your point, but many people will assume they can eat at mcdonalds or similiar all the time and not watch anything in the diet.
because they are on steroids or something.

but this isnt exactly true.it depends how one wants to look.
nobody gets shredded on mcdonalds diet, or by eating too much in general, for example.

it really depends whats the goal, if a guy dont care to see his abs ever, yeah, he shouldnt worry about a single thing.

if dieting was so easy then everyone would be ripped and single digits all the time.

that said, ofcourse the 6 meals thing is bs, 30grams of protein per meal is bs, but there are rough general rules, esp to get lean.

one can disregard anything and bulk up, yes, but he will have to follow rules to get cut.
and the bloodwork on steroids while eating all kinds of shit will be terrible.

diet is different for different people who may have different goals.

And, how does the rough general rules exclude consuming calories six times a day? Eat three solid meals; drink three liquid meals. That's as simplistic as you can get.

[MCWAY]

well all i know about dieting ive learned from h.aykutlug, id say he knows diet stuff.

his advice is even simpler than that btw.

Indeed he does. But, I'll go out on a limb and say it's not quite as hard for him to get ripped as with other bodybuilders. He appears to be an ectomorph. So getting shredded seems to be a bit easier for him.

Dexter Jackson was similar. He didn't have to do cardio to get ripped, until he got older.