Author Topic: Reagan Was A Great Liberal  (Read 3737 times)

syntaxmachine

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Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« on: June 14, 2012, 06:32:19 AM »
1. Reagan and the national debt

Year              Debt Level
09/29/1989       2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988     2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987       2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986       2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985       1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984       1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983       1,377,210,000,000.00
09/30/1982       1,142,034,000,000.00
09/30/1981       997,855,000,000.00

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm

Since budgets are submitted a year in advance (e.g., FY1981's budget was submitted in 1980), Reagan's budgets run from 1981-1989. As you can see, the national debt nearly tripled during this period, starting out at $997.9 billion and ending up at $2.8 trillion. The last tripling of the debt had taken 31 years.

2. Reagan and spending as a percentage of GDP

Year          GDP           Population  Spending % of GDP
1981     3126.8   228.670   33.64 %
1982     3253.2   230.815   36.25    %
1983     3534.6   232.979   36.31    %
1984     3930.9   235.164   34.44    %
1985     4217.5   237.369   35.48    %
1986     4460.1   239.595   35.71    %
1987     4736.4   241.842   35.09    %
1988     5100.4   244.110   34.73    %
1989     5482.1   246.399   34.93    %

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/downchart_gs.php?year=1900_2010&units=p&title=Spending%20as%20percent%20of%20GDP

These numbers are slightly different than my original post because this man in particular used interpolation. In any case, he derived the values from the appropriate governmental sources as far as I can tell; his findings are in line with what everybody else discovers: government spending as a percentage of GDP only went up under Reagan (by 3.7% according to these numbers and 2.8% according to my other post's numbers).

This guy is apparently a conservative author, tea party sympathizer, and climate skeptic.

3. Reagan's amnesty, in addition to his growth of the federal workforce, are commonplace news items and therefore I don't think I need to provide sources. You can easily find them in a moment's notice online in your free time.

4. Reagan's "tax cuts"

Reagan cut taxes early on, but all the while the overwhelming majority of the cuts were balanced out by the elimination and reduction of deductions, plus tax increases later on.

Year   Receipts   As Percentage of GDP
1981   599.3      19.6%
1982   617.8      19.2%
1983   600.6      17.5%
1984   666.4      17.3%
1985   734.0      17.7%
1986   769.2      17.2%
1987   854.3      18.4%
1988   909.2      18.2%
1989   991.1      18.4%

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

The overwhelming majority of government revenue comes from taxes; as you can see, the government derived only a little less tax revenue from the American people under Reagan than when he first came into office (a little over 6% less by the end of the Reagan era). In other words, Reagan kept the percentage above the historical average of 18.1%, and never seriously considered pushing it below the average.

5. Finally, a favorite of liberal presidents, entitlement spending

Year    Billions spent on SS and Medicare   As % of GDP
1981    179.1                                        5.9%
1982    203.1                                        6.3%
1983    224.0                                        6.5%
1984    237.0                                        6.2%
1985    256.1                                        6.2%
1986    270.7                                        6.1%
1987    285.0                                        6.1%
1988    302.5                                        6.0%
1989    324.4                                        6.0%

Avg percentage of GDP: 6.14%
Avg percentage under Carter: 5.44%

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals/ (Tables 15.4-15.5)

Reagan increased entitlement spending by hundreds of billions of dollars, doing so at a clip Carter would have been envious of (as evinced by the percentage of GDP values).

In short, your idol was a very "liberal" president, based on your own criteria of liberalism. The man went hog wild with governmental spending, increasing the share of GDP the government spent, tripling the deficit (the previous tripling had taken 31 years), expanding the federal workforce, granting amnesty to millions of illegals, pumping up entitlement spending in absolute and relative terms, and doing precisely nothing to decrease the amount of tax revenue the government siphons from the people below its historical average.

syntaxmachine

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2012, 06:38:56 AM »
Some of the above post isn't relevant (e.g., "your idol") because it was posted in a ... "debate" (owning) of Coach.

1. When was the last time there was an actual conservative president? We all know Bush Jr. doesn't fit the bill and I think Sr. just continued the trends that developed under Reagan.

2. Why and how has Reagan been mythologized to such an extreme degree? All of the data posted above is publicly available; how could people be duped into this new image?

3. How was he perceived when he was president? The data indicate that on average (across both terms) nobody thought he was that special:


Saying a president whose average approval rating was 53% was "very well liked" seems like a stretch. That's a whopping +6% over Obama's current level.



http://www.gallup.com/poll/11887/ronald-reagan-from-peoples-perspective-gallup-poll-review.aspx


But I didn't exist for any of the years Reagan was president so maybe that avg number doesn't capture some qualitative aspect of his personality?


Soul Crusher

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2012, 06:40:53 AM »
Most people who lived during that era can understand why is he still lauded the way he is.

That is why he won reelection 49-1 in the states. 

   

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2012, 06:44:32 AM »
Most people who lived during that era can understand why is he still lauded the way he is.

That is why he won reelection 49-1 in the states. 

   

So you will be voting Obama? His politics resemble Reagans so?

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2012, 06:45:53 AM »
So you will be voting Obama? His politics resemble Reagans so?


LOL. 

Reagan was not a committed communist.   Obama is. 

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2012, 06:56:20 AM »
Most people who lived during that era can understand why is he still lauded the way he is.

That is why he won reelection 49-1 in the states. 

   

You spoke nothing at all about the policies just now... you did the sarah palin thing right now.. just say something general and involve zero specifics.

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2012, 06:58:11 AM »

LOL. 

Reagan was not a committed communist.   Obama is. 

Im not sure you should have commented on this thread without giving any numbers to counter the argument.

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2012, 06:59:37 AM »
You spoke nothing at all about the policies just now... you did the sarah palin thing right now.. just say something general and involve zero specifics.

 ::)  ::)

People felt a recovery in their lives and the nation had a sense of leadership.   reagan actually had a demo congress most of his presidency and guess what?  HE WORKED WITH THEM TO GET THINGS DONE! 

Obama, being the arrogant ego manical c vnt he is, won't even work with his own damn party! 



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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2012, 07:00:40 AM »
::)  ::)
People felt a recovery in their lives and the nation had a sense of leadership.   reagan actually had a demo congress most of his presidency and guess what?  HE WORKED WITH THEM TO GET THINGS DONE! 
Obama, being the arrogant ego manical c vnt he is, won't even work with his own damn party! 

Sooooooooo no DATA huh...gotcha

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2012, 07:01:44 AM »

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2012, 07:31:04 AM »



That data only goes up to 2007....Obama didn't take office until January 2009
A

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2012, 07:31:24 AM »
http://www.gallup.com/poll/155177/Americans-Blame-Bush-Obama-Bad-Economy.aspx


And guess what?  Obama can't fix it.  Think of this you incompetent dope.  

Let's say you go to a mechanic and he screws up your car.  You take the car to a new mechanic who promises to fix it.   After a few weeks the mechanic hands you a big bill, blames the last mechanic for screwing up.   Asks for more time.   You say fine, A few more weeks later mechanic hands you another fat bill and your car is still busted.   Mechanic still blames last mechanic for the troubles.  

would you keep your car in that garage?  YES OR NO?    

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2012, 07:32:22 AM »

That data only goes up to 2007....Obama didn't take office until January 2009

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2012, 08:06:04 AM »
So you will be voting Obama? His politics resemble Reagans so?

so will you NOT vote for Obama?  do you think Reagan was a good president?

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2012, 11:40:51 AM »

LOL. 

Reagan was not a committed communist.   Obama is. 

i thought he was a socialist and a marxist.

are these things = communist?

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2012, 11:41:55 AM »
i thought he was a socialist and a marxist.

are these things = communist?


Socialism = on the fast track to communism 

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2012, 11:43:22 AM »

Socialism = on the fast track to communism 

I see.  is obama giving all this $ to wall street part of socialism?  I thought socialism was taking from the wealthy and giving to the welfare bums?

That's the prob - that's why your charge can't stick.  Palin did it too.  Said the only people getting paid under obama are those on wall streets - then calling hima  socialist.  You cant have it both ways lol

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2012, 01:10:08 PM »
Most people who lived during that era can understand why is he still lauded the way he is. That is why he won reelection 49-1 in the states. 

that bygone era was the 1980's and there was no shortage of legitimate criticism of his administration at that time

Reagan had more investigations, indictments, convictions of people in his administration than any other POTUS


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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2012, 06:50:21 PM »
that bygone era was the 1980's and there was no shortage of legitimate criticism of his administration at that time

Reagan had more investigations, indictments, convictions of people in his administration than any other POTUS



I do not recall that. 

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2012, 07:02:48 PM »
People felt a recovery in their lives and the nation had a sense of leadership.

Did they feel it the way Chris Matthews felt a chill? I'm a little too young to know how the nation felt under Reagan, but with 20/20 hindsight, I find it hard to believe that the leadership was all that great: beyond things like Iran-Contra, there's the fact that Reagan probably didn't have much more than 10 functioning neurons to rub together by the second half of his second term.


reagan actually had a demo congress most of his presidency and guess what?  HE WORKED WITH THEM TO GET THINGS DONE!

Both parties must want to work to get things done. And right now, the politicos are so polarized that they probably couldn't pass a non-binding resolution that the sun rises due East and sets due West.


Obama, being the arrogant ego manical c vnt he is, won't even work with his own damn party!

Obama shoulders his share of the blame for the dysfunction and the deadlock. But he's not the only one to blame, which I'm sure comes as a surprise to you, seeing how you're obviously constrained by blinders that have his image painted on them, and prevent you from seeing anything else.

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2012, 07:14:43 PM »
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH

Hey idiot , my graph started in 2007 moron.

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2012, 06:10:01 AM »
Hey idiot , my graph started in 2007 moron.

That graph has nothing to do with Obama ... nothing at all

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2012, 06:10:45 AM »
Did they feel it the way Chris Matthews felt a chill? I'm a little too young to know how the nation felt under Reagan, but with 20/20 hindsight, I find it hard to believe that the leadership was all that great: beyond things like Iran-Contra, there's the fact that Reagan probably didn't have much more than 10 functioning neurons to rub together by the second half of his second term.


Both parties must want to work to get things done. And right now, the politicos are so polarized that they probably couldn't pass a non-binding resolution that the sun rises due East and sets due West.


Obama shoulders his share of the blame for the dysfunction and the deadlock. But he's not the only one to blame, which I'm sure comes as a surprise to you, seeing how you're obviously constrained by blinders that have his image painted on them, and prevent you from seeing anything else.

Great post.

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Re: Reagan Was A Great Liberal
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2012, 06:12:53 AM »
That graph has nothing to do with Obama ... nothing at all


LOL.   Fucking pathetic.   You clowns worship this joke for one reason and one reason only.  .