Ron Paul thinks Social Security is Unconstitutional......... but he's on it.

[PTB]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/20/ron-paul-social-security_n_1612117.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

[Roger Bacon]

"He planned to allow citizens under the age of 25 to opt out of the system in order to save their own money for retirement, if elected to the presidency."

This is the way it should be!

He should take the checks, he's had his money taken from him for the last 50 years to be redistributed to people that didn't contribute.

[andreisdaman]

"He planned to allow citizens under the age of 25 to opt out of the system in order to save their own money for retirement, if elected to the presidency."

This is the way it should be!

He should take the checks, he's had his money taken from him for the last 50 years to be redistributed to people that didn't contribute.

no it should NOT be this way....do you actually think these guys under 25 are going to actually SAVE THEIR MONEY??...they will spend it all on drinking and whoring...I know I would.......and then we will be stuck with the bill anyway of supporting them in their old age

[howardroark]

Who gives a shit? Ron Paul has contributed more via taxation than he has ever taken - he has even refused the government pension system and he pays for his own flights (unlike many Congressmen). Him taking back a tiny portion of his stolen income from government is not inconsistent.

[Hugo Chavez]

Listen to the rest of what he says.... BTW, Ron Paul currently pays more into SS than he gets out.  And this concept of taking what is due via government via tax payer money is not new with Ron Paul.  He wants to change the system but under the current system has an obligation to take what has been paid for at every opportunity--for both himself and for his constituents.  There is nothing new here.  This has been his stance from the very start.  there is no hypocrisy in this.

[avxo]

no it should NOT be this way....

Why not? Why should anyone be forced - at the point of the government's proverbial gun - into financing a one-size fits all plan one may not want?

do you actually think these guys under 25 are going to actually SAVE THEIR MONEY??

So if people don't want to save their money, they should be forced to? What else do you think the government should force people to do for their own good?

...they will spend it all on drinking and whoring... I know I would.......

Great. So, your argument goes "I was a satyromaniac alcoholic and didn't save money. So everyone else should be forced to save money!" Sounds sensible.

and then we will be stuck with the bill anyway of supporting them in their old age

Why would we be stuck with any bill? Why should the government support anyone?

Who gives a shit? Ron Paul has contributed more via taxation than he has ever taken - he has even refused the government pension system and he pays for his own flights (unlike many Congressmen). Him taking back a tiny portion of his stolen income from government is not inconsistent.

QFT.

[outby43]

Yeah SS should be done away with.  There are many options for individuals to use for retirement but that should be their decision and not the governments.

As for the people that may not have enough to make ends meet when they retire...I don't know what to do with them.  Sure the easy answer is fuck em all but shit happens.

Maybe free soup and a tent is as far as I would go for government handouts.

[garebear]

Why not? Why should anyone be forced - at the point of the government's proverbial gun - into financing a one-size fits all plan one may not want?


So if people don't want to save their money, they should be forced to? What else do you think the government should force people to do for their own good?


Great. So, your argument goes "I was a satyromaniac alcoholic and didn't save money. So everyone else should be forced to save money!" Sounds sensible.


Why would we be stuck with any bill? Why should the government support anyone?


QFT.

I know you're a smart poster, and I've agreed with many of your posts, but I don't agree with you here.

You and I both know that most young people are, in fact, not going to save, so the andre is right.

Your argument doesn't take into account that we live in a humane society. Would you really be willing to let older people starve to death?

This is very similar to the health care argument. In the same vein in which you posit, you would also be willing to allow hospitals to refuse emergency medical service to those without insurance.

Also by your logic, I should be able to opt out of paying taxes if I don't agree with certain wars.

In addition, since I have no children, I shouldn't have to pay for any education.

This list goes on and on.

[avxo]

You and I both know that most young people are, in fact, not going to save, so the andre is right.

You cannot protect people from their own poor judgement, and trying to do so is a futile endeavor anyways. And even if it wasn't, the simple fact is that forcing people to not make bad decisions at the point of a gun is wrong.

Your argument doesn't take into account that we live in a humane society. Would you really be willing to let older people starve to death?

I am willing to let people be responsible for the choices they made. Besides, to assert that people would face starvation if not for a retirement benefits is a fallacy. It's not an "either-or" thing. Perhaps elder people who can't afford food can move in with their children. Numerous charities could provide food. Will some starve to death? Probably. But how is that different from today anyways?

This is very similar to the health care argument. In the same vein in which you posit, you would also be willing to allow hospitals to refuse emergency medical service to those without insurance.

Yes, I would. I don't think that any provider of services should be required by law to provide services gratis.

Also by your logic, I should be able to opt out of paying taxes if I don't agree with certain wars.

I don't think that follows from my logic at all...

In addition, since I have no children, I shouldn't have to pay for any education.

You shouldn't have to pay taxes for education, because I don't believe that providing an educational system is an appropriate function of government.

This list goes on and on.

It does. But my answers would remain, more or less, the same.

[garebear]

You cannot protect people from their own poor judgement, and trying to do so is a futile endeavor anyways. And even if it wasn't, the simple fact is that forcing people to not make bad decisions at the point of a gun is wrong.


I am willing to let people be responsible for the choices they made. Besides, to assert that people would face starvation if not for a retirement benefits is a fallacy. It's not an "either-or" thing. Perhaps elder people who can't afford food can move in with their children. Numerous charities could provide food. Will some starve to death? Probably. But how is that different from today anyways?


Yes, I would. I don't think that any provider of services should be required by law to provide services gratis.


I don't think that follows from my logic at all...


You shouldn't have to pay taxes for education, because I don't believe that providing an educational system is an appropriate function of government.


It does. But my answers would remain, more or less, the same.

If you are willing to let people starve to death and die due to a denial of medicine, then why be part of a country at all?

What's the point?

[Soul Crusher]

If you are willing to let people starve to death and die due to a denial of medicine, then why be part of a country at all?

What's the point?

What if someone wants to be free to die on their own terms? 

[garebear]

What if someone wants to be free to die on their own terms? 

Then I support it.

But let's be honest about it. If someone is in a car wreck, they are going to want to go to the hospital 99.999999999999 percent of the time.
 
If someone is starving, they want something to eat 99.999999999999999999 percent of the time.

Let's be human about it.

And as to educational costs - I'm happy that my taxes go there. I wish a larger percentage would be spent there. That improves the quality of our country as a whole, even though I have no children.

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/20/ron-paul-social-security_n_1612117.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

Ron Paul is 76 so the government automatically sends it to him regardless.  There's nothing wrong with him taking it if he's using the money to help dismantle it.


I actually agree with Ron on this.  Social Security is a complete joke and its going to run out very soon.  I would rather get mine cashed out and invest it into a more substainable retirement plan.

[Roger Bacon]

I understand your political views now!


They're based on your belief that adults aren't responsible enough to be allowed to run their own lives.

[Roger Bacon]

So if people don't want to save their money, they should be forced to? What else do you think the government should force people to do for their own good?

I'm actually glad he posted that.  It highlights the foundation of their (several getbiggers) thought processes. 

[Roger Bacon]

If you are willing to let people starve to death and die due to a denial of medicine, then why be part of a country at all?

What's the point?

Military, Police, Fire, Infrastructure. 

[Roger Bacon]

Let's be human about it.

Everyone here would agree with that.  

That's what Churches, Charities, and other non profit organizations are for.

Imagine what the Salvation Army could achieve with the millions of dollars we give to our government to throw away.

[avxo]

If you are willing to let people starve to death and die due to a denial of medicine, then why be part of a country at all?

I don't want to deny anyone anything. I just don't think that it's the government's responsibility to tell adults how they should spend their money or to force people to pay for services they do not want or for other people to eat and get medical coverage.

Plus, it's actually a false dichotomy to claim that the only two options are social security or starvation. Perhaps people would save if they knew they wouldn't have social security. Or they could move in with their children. Or perhaps charities could provide meals. It's not "social security or death, doom and destruction!!!"

What's the point?

You honestly think that the point of government is to run a chain of restaurants and hospitals?

[Roger Bacon]

Did you know that thousands of Americans cannot afford a cell phone?  I think the government should get into the cell phone business.



Oh wait...... They did

[avxo]

I'm actually glad he posted that.  It highlights the foundation of their (several getbiggers) thought processes. 

I'm not sure why my post (the one you are quoting) was deleted. You'd imagine that a moderator would at least have the courtesy to send at least a PM to let you know that a post was deleted and, more importantly, why, especially if the post doesn't obviously violate any of the board rules.

[Roger Bacon]

I'm not sure why my post (the one you are quoting) was deleted. You'd imagine that a moderator would at least have the courtesy to send at least a PM to let you know that a post was deleted and, more importantly, why, especially if the post doesn't obviously violate any of the board rules.

I don't think it was deleted?

[avxo]

I don't think it was deleted?

Hmm... you see that post? I don't, so perhaps it's a caching issue on my side or somesuch.

Or maybe *shifts eyes* they restored it after they were caught red-handed... yes... yes...

[Roger Bacon]

This thread is just boggling my mind.  I'm glad to see you two admit that you feel this way.


andreisdaman, garebear, serious question...

What can adults be trusted to do on their own?   Saving our own money, and planing for our future is now unrealistic.  What do you care about Education for?  Why bother, we have to rely on the government anyway.

This is absolutely the craziest damn thing I've read on here.  Financial freedom is out the window now.



Insane

[Roger Bacon]

Hmm... you see that post? I don't, so perhaps it's a caching issue on my side or somesuch.

Or maybe *shifts eyes* they restored it after they were caught red-handed... yes... yes...

haha.... I see it still.  I say we blame this one on Ozmo.

[Soul Crusher]

This thread is just boggling my mind.  I'm glad to see you two admit that you feel this way.


andreisdaman, garebear, serious question...

What can adults be trusted to do on their own?   Saving our own money, and planing for our future is now unrealistic.  What do you care about Education for?  Why bother, we have to rely on the government anyway.

This is absolutely the craziest damn thing I've read on here.  Financial freedom is out the window now.



Insane

They are progressive statists what do you expect?