Author Topic: Obama has been a successful POTUS  (Read 18351 times)

whork

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6587
  • Getbig!
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #125 on: June 25, 2012, 03:28:25 AM »
And i love the neo-cons comebacks no fact just conservative propaganda.

Its sad they cant see it but they sound just like trained parrots.


Syntax Machine you are WAY to intelligent and enlightened to post on this board filled with brainwashed people.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41759
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #126 on: June 25, 2012, 04:08:58 AM »
1.  Has obama swayed the american electorate to the progressive viewpoint?   No. 

2.  Has obama helped or hurt the democrat party electorally?  Hurt

3.  Has obama passed bi-partisan bills that most of the electorate wants or likes?  No, despite the fact that LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, GWB did.

4.  Has obama improved or worsed our foreign policy?  Ask Russia or China about that one

5.  If ObamaCare goes down, what will obama's legacy be? 

6.  Has obama inspired confidence in the economy for growth or expansion?  no. 

7.  Has obama been faithful to the USC overall?   No 

8.  Has obama been true to his promises of bringing people together and having a transparent admn?  No 

9.  Has obama addressed the most serious issues of the day?  Simpson Bowles anyone? 

10.  If obama is so effective, why his is blaming everyone for everything as opposed to running on his record?

11.  If Obama is so effective, why are increasin numbers of democrats running away from him? 

12.  If Obama is so successfull, why have 3 million democrats left the part since he was elected? 

13.  What specific criteria are we looking at?  By most measures everything is worse than when he came in by his own measure 3 years ago. 
   


Bump

whork

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6587
  • Getbig!
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #127 on: June 25, 2012, 05:08:01 AM »
Well, thanks. But just because I say these things doesn't mean I can't have conservative tendencies myself. So you shouldn't frame this as truth vs. conservative propaganda; both right and left sides have very intelligent people and oftentimes their views can coalesce, blurring the distinction and making the whole dichotomy of questionable value. Only the simpletons use the 'evil socialists' or 'religious hypocrite warmonger' type labels.

Nothing wrong with conservative tendencies (or any other for that matter if its based in facts and reality) i was referring to the state of this board and the way people here try to argue politics. It was nice to read a post that actually dealt with FACT's and a poster who build his conclusion/input on that instead of just repeting what his favorite media output televised this morning.




Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41759
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #128 on: June 25, 2012, 05:13:21 AM »
Germany rebuffs Obama's advice on euro crisis
 

BERLIN (AP) -- Germany's finance minister is rejecting U.S. President Barack Obama's calls on Europe to move faster in fighting its debt crisis, telling him to get the American deficit under control instead.

Wolfgang Schaeuble told public broadcaster ZDF in an interview late Sunday that "people are always very quick at giving others advice."

He says: "Mr. Obama should first of all take care of reducing the American deficit, which is higher than in the eurozone."

Obama and other leaders fear an escalating crisis in Europe could drag down the world economy.

The 17-nation eurozone is struggling to overhaul its institutions and streamline its decision making to restore investors' confidence. The bloc's debt relative to its economic output stands at about 80 percent, while it is about 100 percent in the U.S.

 
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_GERMANY_US_FINANCIAL_CRISIS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-06-25-07-41-21


________________________ ____________________


Yeah - Obama is real persuasive and successful. 

Whatever.   


whork

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6587
  • Getbig!
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #129 on: June 25, 2012, 05:30:25 AM »
You base your arguments and posts on hatred toward Obama NOT on facts. Syntax gave a very clear coherent statement based on facts, knowledge and analysis. You on the other hand reply with a article where Obama and a German minister debate Euro vs. US deficit control/economy.

The difference is his post is an example of how intelligent people debate and yours is an example of an adolescent would debate(Use any story to support your argumentations even though its unrelated).

If you cant tell the difference and cant base your opinions on facts instead of feelings you dont have the maturity to debate politics with adults. Thats how children debate and you aint a child.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41759
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #130 on: June 25, 2012, 05:32:46 AM »
You base your arguments and posts on hatred toward Obama NOT on facts. Syntax gave a very clear coherent statement based on facts, knowledge and analysis. You on the other hand reply with a article where Obama and a German minister debate Euro vs. US deficit control/economy.

The difference is his post is an example of how intelligent people debate and yours is an example of an adolescent would debate(Use any story to support your argumentations even though its unrelated).

If you cant tell the difference and cant base your opinions on facts instead of feelings you dont have the maturity to debate politics with adults. Thats how children debate and you aint a child.


STFU - I am using ACTUAL NEWS EVENTS AND REALITY to rebuff his nonsense.    He said obama is successful and effective?   At what?  I just posted a story from today that Europe is telling obama to STFU about the economy. 

whork

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6587
  • Getbig!
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #131 on: June 25, 2012, 05:56:52 AM »

STFU - I am using ACTUAL NEWS EVENTS AND REALITY to rebuff his nonsense.    He said obama is successful and effective?   At what?  I just posted a story from today that Europe is telling obama to STFU about the economy. 

I dont know what to tell you. I dont like calling people stupid but intellectually you are on a lower level than Syntax and really have no place posting in his thread.

You take a ACTUAL NEWS EVENTS AND Fit it in to YOUR REALITY. Its how a kids mind works nothing unusual about that but you are a grown man.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41759
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #132 on: June 25, 2012, 06:11:55 AM »
 :)

Lmfao!   Sorry that actual news events clearly destroy the entire premise of this thread. 



I dont know what to tell you. I dont like calling people stupid but intellectually you are on a lower level than Syntax and really have no place posting in his thread.

You take a ACTUAL NEWS EVENTS AND Fit it in to YOUR REALITY. Its how a kids mind works nothing unusual about that but you are a grown man.


Option D

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17367
  • Kelly the Con Way
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #133 on: June 25, 2012, 06:26:17 AM »
Funniest thread in years

whork

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6587
  • Getbig!
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #134 on: June 25, 2012, 06:46:57 AM »
:)

Lmfao!   Sorry that actual news events clearly destroy the entire premise of this thread. 




Compare the post by Syntax to the shit you post. No matter your stand point any remotely intelligent human being can see who is based in facts and who is based in how he feels.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41759
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #135 on: June 25, 2012, 07:21:29 AM »
Compare the post by Syntax to the shit you post. No matter your stand point any remotely intelligent human being can see who is based in facts and who is based in how he feels.

What "facts" has he posted? 


Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #136 on: June 25, 2012, 07:25:23 AM »
Either add to the discussion or f off.   your trolling amd. Tourettes is annoying.

you should repeat this to yourself 100 times a day

whork

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6587
  • Getbig!
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #137 on: June 25, 2012, 07:27:02 AM »
What "facts" has he posted? 




The one most relevant to you:

The misunderstanding is reinforced by presidents who take credit for growth and pundits who blame/credit everything happening to a president. The fact is this: we live in a capitalist where private actors control productivity. Corporations invest and hire/fire according to their plans, households only spend according to their perceptions of wealth, and banks lend in response to demand. Presidents do not control any of these variables, and can at best moderately nudge them in one or another direction.


Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41759
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #138 on: June 25, 2012, 07:27:25 AM »
Little America’: Infighting on Obama team squandered chance for peace in Afghanistan
By Rajiv Chandrasekaran, Published: June 24

Excerpted from “Little America: The War Within the War for Afghanistan.”


________________________ ________________________



In late March 2010, President Obama’s national security adviser, James L. Jones, summoned Richard C. Holbrooke to the White House for a late-afternoon conversation. The two men rarely had one-on-one meetings, even though Holbrooke, the State Department’s point man for Afghanistan, was a key member of Obama’s war cabinet.

As Holbrooke entered Jones’s West Wing office, he sensed that the discussion was not going to be about policy, but about him. Holbrooke believed his principal mission was to accomplish what he thought Obama wanted: a peace deal with the Taliban. The challenge energized Holbrooke, who had more experience with ending wars than anyone in the administration. In 1968, he served on the U.S. delegation to the Paris peace talks with North Vietnam. And in 1995, he forged a deal in the former Yugoslavia to end three years of bloody sectarian fighting.

The discussion quickly wound to Jones’s main point: He told Holbrooke that he should start considering his “exit strategy” from the administration.

As he left the meeting, Holbrooke pulled out his trump card — a call to Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who was traveling in Saudi Arabia. The following week, Clinton went to see Obama armed with a list of Holbrooke’s accomplishments. “Mr. President,” she said, “you can fire Richard Holbrooke — over the objection of your secretary of state.” But Jim Jones, Clinton said, could not.

Obama backed down, but Jones didn’t, nor did others at the White House. Instead of capitalizing on Holbrooke’s experience and supporting his push for reconciliation with the Taliban, White House officials dwelled on his shortcomings — his disorganization, his manic intensity, his thirst for the spotlight, his dislike of Afghan President Hamid Karzai, his tendency to badger fellow senior officials. At every turn, they sought to marginalize him and diminish his influence.

The infighting exacted a staggering cost: The Obama White House failed to aggressively explore negotiations to end the war when it had the most boots on the battlefield.

Even after Obama decided not to fire Holbrooke, Jones and his top deputy for Afghanistan, Lt. Gen. Douglas E. Lute, kept adding items to a dossier of Holbrooke’s supposed misdeeds that Lute was compiling. They even drafted a cover letter that called him ineffective because he had ruined his relationships with Karzai, the U.S. ambassador in Kabul and officials in the Pakistani government. Lute told NSC staffers that he and Jones planned to use the information to persuade the president to override Clinton’s objection.

In the interim, Jones and Lute sought to put Holbrooke into a box. Officials at the National Security Council would schedule key meetings when Holbrooke was out of town. When they didn’t want him to travel to the region, they refused to allow him to use a military airplane. They even sought to limit the number of aides Holbrooke could take on his trips.

Lute and other NSC staffers cooked up their most audacious plan to undercut Holbrooke shortly before Karzai’s visit to Washington in April 2010. They arranged for him to be excluded from Obama’s Oval Office meeting with the Afghan leader, and then they planned to give Obama talking points for the session that would slight Holbrooke. Among the lines they wanted the president to deliver to Karzai: Everyone in this room represents me and has my trust. The implication would be that Holbrooke, who would not be present, was not Obama’s man. The scheme was foiled when Clinton insisted that Holbrooke attend the session.

With Clinton protecting him, Holbrooke spent far less time worrying about how to save his job than Lute spent trying to fire him. “Doug is out of his depth fighting with me,” Holbrooke told one of his aides. “The White House can’t afford to get rid of me.”

Obama could have ordered a stop to the infighting; after all, he favored a negotiated end to the war. But his sympathies lay with his NSC staffers — Holbrooke’s frenetic behavior was the antithesis of Obama’s “no-drama” rule. The president never granted Holbrooke a one-on-one session in the Oval Office, and when he traveled to Afghanistan in March 2010, he took more than a dozen staffers, but not Holbrooke, who was not even informed of the trip in advance. During the Situation Room sessions to discuss Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal’s request for more forces in late 2009, Obama kept his views about surging to himself, but he was far less reticent about Holbrooke. At the start of one meeting, Holbrooke gravely compared the “momentous decision” Obama faced to what Lyndon B. Johnson had grappled with during the Vietnam War. “Richard,” Obama said, “do people really talk like that?”

The president’s lack of support devastated Holbrooke’s loyal staff members, who were just as skeptical of the military’s counterinsurgency strategy as Lute and others in the White House were. “The tragedy of it all is that Richard’s views about all of this stuff — about the surge, about Pakistan and about reconciliation — were probably closer to the president’s than anyone else in the administration,” said former Holbrooke senior adviser Vali Nasr, now the dean of the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. “If the president had wanted to, he could have found a kindred spirit in Richard.”

No clear path to peace

To Holbrooke, a towering man with an irrepressible personality, brokering a deal with the Taliban was the only viable strategy to end the war.

He was convinced that the military’s goal of defeating the Taliban would be too costly and time-consuming, and the chances of success were almost nil, given the safe havens in Pakistan, the corruption of Karzai’s government and the sorry state of the Afghan army.

Obama told his aides that he was interested in a peace deal, and less than two months after he took office, the president said publicly that he was open to seeking reconciliation with the Taliban, comparing such an effort to a U.S. initiative to work with former Sunni militants in Iraq who were willing to break with al-Qaeda.

His comments alarmed top military and intelligence officials. Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Gen. David H. Petraeus, chief of U.S. Central Command, thought it was too soon even to talk about talking. They wanted to commit more troops first and then talk, but only to Taliban leaders who agreed to surrender. CIA officials argued that the United States could not negotiate with the Taliban until its leadership denounced al-Qaeda.

There was no clear path for Holbrooke to achieve peace talks. The Taliban had no office, mailing address, or formal structure. It was not clear that its leader, the reclusive Mullah Mohammed Omar, wanted to talk — in 2009, the Taliban appeared to be winning — or whether he and his fellow mullahs would accept the United States’ conditions for negotiations: that they renounce violence, break with al-Qaeda and embrace the Afghan constitution.

Even if they did, would the terms be acceptable to the Karzai government? What about Pakistan and other neighboring powers? If Holbrooke was going to have any chance of success, he needed the backing of others in the administration, starting with the president.

But the White House never issued a clear policy on reconciliation during the administration’s first two years. Instead of finding common purpose with Holbrooke, White House officials were consumed with fighting him. Jones and Lute hated the thought of Holbrooke basking in the spotlight as he did after peace in the Balkans. They wanted him out of the way, and then they would chart a path to peace.

Staffs at war

At the White House, most of the day-to-day combat with Holbrooke was led by Lute. He had joined the George W. Bush White House as an active-duty three-star general to serve as the Iraq and Afghanistan war czar. When Obama became president, he had decided to keep Lute around, in part because he could warn them if his fellow generals were trying to pull a fast one on the new crop of civilians.

Lute spent much of his time organizing meetings and compiling data that showed how the war was being lost. He believed his work was vital, and he thought that Holbrooke needed to follow his lead. But Holbrooke believed Lute needed to take orders from him, not the other way around. Holbrooke began to treat Lute as an errand boy, sometimes calling four times in an hour.

Lute’s resentment grew with each request that Holbrooke’s office ignored and each State Department memo that had to be revised by the NSC staff. Before long, the two men’s staffs were in open warfare.

Senior officials at the White House let the fighting persist. Holbrooke had no friends on Team Obama. Denis McDonough, then the NSC chief of staff, had been angered by Holbrooke’s strong-arming of Democratic foreign policy experts to support Clinton during the 2008 Democratic presidential primaries. Ben Rhodes, the NSC’s communications director, claimed to colleagues that Holbrooke was the source of leaks of sensitive matters to journalists. And Vice President Biden’s dislike of him dated to Bill Clinton’s administration.

With his frequent references to Vietnam and flair for the dramatic, Holbrooke’s style left him the odd man out with White House advisers. If Obama or Clinton was not at a meeting, Holbrooke insisted on dominating the conversation. He was a throwback to a time when men like Henry Kissinger and George Kennan held unrivaled sway over policy.

“He spoke like a man who just left talking to Kennan — and walked into 2009, still in black and white, with his hat on,” said Vikram Singh, one of his top deputies. “Sometimes it was a bunch of bulls---, and sometimes it was a bunch of wisdom. But if you were this young crowd that came in with Barack Obama, it seemed cartoonish. . . . They weren’t able to hear what he was saying because they were distracted by the mannerisms and the way he did things — and he couldn’t figure that out.”

The only one who understood him was Clinton. She was indebted to Holbrooke for his support during the 2008 primaries and for delivering peace in the Balkans, the most significant diplomatic breakthrough of Bill Clinton’s presidency. She tolerated his idiosyncrasies because she was confident that he’d deliver a breakthrough in Afghanistan.

‘Anybody but Richard’

As the White House and Holbrooke bickered, promising leads withered.

In July 2009, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia sent a personal message to Obama asking him to dispatch someone to meet with a group of Taliban emissaries who had opened up a rare line of communication with the Saudi intelligence service. The Saudi intelligence chief had already met with the U.S. ambassador to Riyadh and the CIA station chief there to discuss the initiative, but the Saudis deemed the discussions so promising that Abdullah asked his ambassador to Washington to discuss the matter with Jones. Holbrooke figured the overture was worth pursuing. But the offer languished at the NSC.

The NSC eventually expressed support for reconciliation in the spring of 2010, but with a twist: Lute favored a U.N. envoy to lead the effort. His preferred candidate was former Algerian foreign minister Lakhdar Brahimi, who had served as a U.N. special representative to Afghanistan. Lute’s plan relegated Holbrooke to a support role.

Lute argued that Brahimi had Karzai’s trust and that he could deal with Iran and Pakistan in ways that a U.S. diplomat couldn’t. There was also the opportunity to shift blame for failure. “If this doesn’t work,” he told colleagues, “do we want to own it or do we want the U.N. to?”

It seemed a masterstroke — except that the Afghan and Pakistani governments despised the idea. Everyone in the region wanted the United States to lead the effort. They knew the United Nations was powerless.

Clinton was furious with Lute. “We don’t outsource our foreign policy,” she declared to Holbrooke and his staff. Then she went to Obama to kill the idea.

Even with Brahimi rejected, Lute resumed his efforts to find someone else to take charge of reconciliation, this time focusing on retired American diplomats.

“It was driven by hatred,” said an NSC staffer who worked for Lute. “Doug wanted anybody but Richard.”

Shift on reconciliation

As Washington officials quarreled, a quiet shift was occurring at the NATO headquarters in Kabul. While other military leaders opposed reconciliation, McChrystal began softening to the idea. His thinking was shaped by Christopher Kolenda, an astute Army colonel who had been working on a program to provide resettlement and job-training to low-level insurgents who wanted to stop fighting. In December 2009, Kolenda explained to McChrystal how Mullah Omar’s annual messages at the Eid-al-Fitr holiday had become more sophisticated and moderate. The Taliban, he told the general, “is opening the aperture for a different outcome.”

As spring turned to summer, McChrystal became a believer. He realized that the United States would not be able to get an outright military victory, and the Afghan government would not be able to get an outright political victory, so a peace deal was the only solution. McChrystal didn’t want to let up on the Taliban just yet, but he said he was ready to “clearly show them there’s daylight if you go to it.” In early June, he directed Kolenda to prepare a briefing for Karzai on reconciliation.

Later that month McChrystal was fired over comments he and some top aides made disparaging American civilian officials. Obama tapped Petraeus, who led the effort to beat back insurgents in Iraq, to replace McChrystal and energize the war effort. When Petraeus arrived in Kabul, he ordered a halt to the military’s reconciliation activities. He told his subordinates that if the Americans applied enough military pressure, the insurgents would switch sides in droves. To some in the headquarters, it sounded as if he wanted to duplicate what had occurred in Iraq’s Anbar province, when Sunni tribesmen had eventually decided to forsake al-Qaeda and side with the United States. Although Obama had mentioned the Sunni Awakening as a possible model in his first public comments on reconciliation, his views had evolved by the summer of 2010. He told his war cabinet that he was open to pursuing negotiations with the enemy, the likes of which never occurred in Iraq. Petraeus’s approach was more akin to accepting a surrender from a rival under siege.

At the White House, Lute and other NSC staffers were so obsessed with Holbrooke that they failed to marshal support among the war cabinet to force Petraeus to shift course. On a visit to Kabul in October 2010, Holbrooke sought to lobby Petraeus directly.

“Dave, we need to talk about reconciliation,” Holbrooke said to Petraeus as they got into an armored sport-utility vehicle, according to Holbrooke’s recollection to his staff.

“Richard, that’s a 15-second conversation,” Petraeus replied. “Yes, eventually. But no. Not now.”

A desire to negotiate

Holbrooke died of a torn aorta on Dec.13, 2010. His memorial service in Washington was held on a chilly January afternoon in the packed opera house of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. Obama delivered a eulogy. So did Bill and Hillary Clinton and former U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan.

The differences in their speeches revealed how distant Holbrooke’s relationship with Obama had been. The sitting president spoke with eloquence, but his remarks sounded stiff, devoid of a single personal anecdote.

Hillary Clinton, by contrast, celebrated the very traits that Jones, Lute and others had derided: “There are many of us in this audience who’ve had the experience of Richard calling 10 times a day if he had to say something urgent, and of course, he believed everything he had to say was urgent. And if he couldn’t reach you, he would call your staff. He’d wait outside your office. He’d walk into meetings to which he was not invited, act like he was meant to be there, and just start talking.”

But it wasn’t until the following month, at a memorial event for Holbrooke in New York, that Clinton said what he really would have wanted to hear: “The security and governance gains produced by the military and civilian surges have created an opportunity to get serious about a responsible reconciliation process.” The United States finally had indicated a clear desire to negotiate with the Taliban.

Clinton also revealed a crucial shift in U.S. policy. The three core American requirements — that the Taliban renounce violence, abandon al-Qaeda and abide by Afghanistan’s constitution — were no longer preconditions for talks but “necessary outcomes of any negotiation.” That meant the Taliban could come as they were. It was the speech that Holbrooke had sought to deliver for a year. Ironically, the only man in the administration to negotiate an end to a war had been an impediment to ending this war.

With Holbrooke gone, Lute stopped insisting on an envoy from outside the State Department. The White House empowered Holbrooke’s successor, diplomat Marc Grossman, to pursue negotiations. And Pentagon and CIA officials ceased their opposition to the prospect of talks with the Taliban.

Although military gains across southern Afghanistan had put the United States in a slightly better negotiating position by that February, nothing had changed fundamentally since Holbrooke’s last push to persuade others in the Obama administration to embrace a peace plan. Nothing except his death.


For more information about “Little America” and to read another excerpt, go to rajivc.com.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/little-america-infighting-on-obama-team-squandered-chance-for-peace-in-afghanistan/2012/06/24/gJQAbQMB0V_print.html



________________________ ______________________

yeah - real effective and successful leader right there!   ::)  ::)

All while we lost 80% of all casualities in the Afghan war in the last 4 years alone.  


Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41759
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #139 on: June 25, 2012, 07:28:41 AM »

The one most relevant to you:

The misunderstanding is reinforced by presidents who take credit for growth and pundits who blame/credit everything happening to a president. The fact is this: we live in a capitalist where private actors control productivity. Corporations invest and hire/fire according to their plans, households only spend according to their perceptions of wealth, and banks lend in response to demand. Presidents do not control any of these variables, and can at best moderately nudge them in one or another direction.



That is utter horesehit and obama kneepadding. 

 

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #140 on: June 25, 2012, 07:29:18 AM »
The conversation has reached its peak if you are unable to recognize facts. The facts must regulate our discourse: we can't just assert whatever fits our worldview, ignoring reality all the while (actually, you can, but then you'll be in here by yourself and 3333 pretty quickly). For example, if the facts indicate that the MB is a disaster for Egypt and US security interests, then I will concede the point to 3333.

You stated that businesses are afraid to grow (presumably because of some policy or other of Obama's). I cited the WSJ poll indicating that expert opinion on the matter is that hiring/lending is stagnant due to weak demand, not uncertainty over government policy. So what you say is exactly the opposite of what the evidence indicates. Therefore it isn't justifiably called "factual."

Saying 'this is the way it is' when it comes to evaluating presidents does nothing to advance the conversation. Maybe a majority of people do use the 'am I better off now' method. What we need to figure out is, should they? Should presidents be held accountable for things they have literally no influence over? I'm more interested in objectively analyzing performance in office, not pretending the POTUS is a football coach. If you need to think in these terms and you want to praise/blame a POTUS for virtually everything as if he has magical powers, then go right ahead. Just don't pretend that such simplistic thinking is indicative of reality.

this is where all conversations with Bum will eventually wind up

and I don't think it's because he can't recognize facts

he spends quite a bit of energy choosing not to recognize facts for the very purpose of keeping himself in a totally self created simplistic reality

dario73

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6467
  • Getbig!
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #141 on: June 25, 2012, 07:31:02 AM »
Funniest thread in years

You are right. The stupidity of Obama supporters is pretty funny. And sad.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41759
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #142 on: June 25, 2012, 07:31:38 AM »
this is were all conversations with Bum will eventually wind up

and I don't think it's because he can't recognize facts

he spends quite a bit of energy choosing not to recognize facts for the very purpose of keeping himself in a totally self created simplistic reality

What facts?   Tell me what specfic "facts" and policies show that Obama has been succesfull and effective?  

Option D

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17367
  • Kelly the Con Way
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #143 on: June 25, 2012, 07:33:16 AM »
What facts?   Tell me what specfic "facts" and policies show that Obama has been succesfull and effective?  
War on Terror

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41759
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #144 on: June 25, 2012, 07:34:52 AM »
Obama Is Already Having A Horrible Year In Front Of The Supreme Court
Brett LoGiurato|49 minutes ago|100|



As everyone awaits the Supreme Court's ruling on the Affordable Care Act, the high court has already provided some clues as to how it views the Obama administration's increased claims of federal power.
 
Hint: This year hasn't been kind to President Barack Obama and his administration on the court. Ilya Shapiro, a senior fellow in constitutional studies at the libertarian Cato Institute, said it's a symbol of the Obama administration's faulty view of federal power.
 
"It's a breathtaking assertion of federal power," Shapiro told Business Insider of three cases he highlighted recently in a Wall Street Journal op-ed. These Supreme Court decisions highlight a year in which the federal government has mostly struck out in its Supreme Court fights. Here are the highlights:
 
1. Hosanna-Tabor Church v. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
 
In a unanimous 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court determined that churches and other religious groups should be able to choose leaders without government meddling. Hosanna-Tabor Church had fired an employee for threatening to sue the church over an unrelated employment matter.
 
The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission sued on behalf of the teacher, who had been diagnosed with narcolepsy but cleared to work by doctors. But writing for the unanimous majority, Chief Justice John Roberts said that the "authority to select and control who will minister to the faithful is the church's alone." The New York Times wrote that the decision "was surprising in both its sweep and its unanimity."
 
2. United States v. Jones
 
The government asserted authority to attach a GPS device to the car of a suspected drug dealer — Antoine Jones. Police tracked the movement of the GPS device, without Jones' knowledge, for 28 days in 2004. The FBI arrested Jones in 2005, and he was found guilty in 2008 and sentenced to life in prison. Upon appeal that reached the Supreme Court, the justices unanimously agreed that it was unconstitutional.
 
The public agrees. According to a Fairleigh Dickinson poll on the subject, 73 percent of those surveyed said police must have a warrant to put a GPS tracking device on a suspect’s car/
 
"Nevertheless, the Justice Department was back in a lower court," Shapiro wrote, "using technicalities in Jones to claim again (United States v. Pineda-Moreno) that it could attach GPS devices without seeking warrants."
 
3. Sackett v. Environmental Protection Agency
 
This one was a little strange to begin with: The EPA issued a compliance order to a couple that had purchased a half-acre in Idaho on which they planned to build a house. The EPA's gripe: They were building on EPA-protected wetlands under the Clean Water Act.
 
The couple attempted, unsuccessfully, to get a hearing with the EPA. In another unanimous decision, the Supreme Court ruled that landowners have a right to immediate judicial review under the Administrative Procedure Act. In a statement after the ruling, Mike Sackett, one of the landowners, bashed the federal government. "The EPA used bullying and threats of terrifying fines, and has made our life hell for the past five years." The Supreme Court, he said, had come to his rescue.
 
--------
 
Overall, based on raw data Shapiro supplied to Business Insider, the federal government has won only five of the 15 cases in which it's been involved this term. That data can't be taken at face value — Shapiro said there are some cases, like the three he highlighted, that show a more indicative trend of the federal government's overreach.
 
Then there are the rulings on Obamacare and the Arizona immigration law (SB 1070), which are expected to come this week. On both, justices expressed skepticism toward the federal government's arguments. In the Arizona immigration law oral arguments, for example, even liberal-leaning justice Sonia Sotomayor was unsympathetic to Solicitor General Donald Verrilli's argument.
 
"If the government loses in the health-care or immigration cases, it won't be because its lawyers had a bad day in court or because the justices ruled based on their political preferences," Shapiro wrote. "It will be because the Obama administration continues to make legal arguments that don't pass the smell test."


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/supreme-court-has-already-been-ruling-against-obama-2012-6#ixzz1yodI0rpE



________________________ _______________

Yeah - real successfull and effective, not to mention persuasive.   ::)  ::)  ::)

 

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41759
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #145 on: June 25, 2012, 07:36:48 AM »
War on Terror

Ha ha ha ha - are you joking?   You clowns wanted Bush brought to the Hauge for war crimes for waterboarding people, but applaud obama running murder inc. out of the WH with no oversight wghatsoever, and signing the NDAA etc.

The hypocrisy of the average obama drone like yourself is breathtaking. 

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #146 on: June 25, 2012, 07:39:29 AM »
What facts?   Tell me what specfic "facts" and policies show that Obama has been succesfull and effective?  

go back to page 1 of this thread and read any of syntaxmachine posts

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41759
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #147 on: June 25, 2012, 07:45:43 AM »
go back to page 1 of this thread and read any of syntaxmachine posts

I did and they are a mixture of pure fantasy, soon be repealed laws, and blame for everyone other than the current occupant of the WH. 

Again - what policies show obama has been persuasive, effective, and successfull? 

If he loses in November: 

1.  Economy will still be a disaster

2.  Health Care repealed

3.  Debt/Deficit drastically worse

4.  TBTF Banks even bigger

5.  DOJ in need of full remaking

6.  USA having less influence in the world




You obama drones and leftists live in an alternate reality not connected to the majority of the country of whom 65% hate obamacare, 65% feel we are on the wrong track, 66% still feel we are in recession, etc. 


 

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41759
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #148 on: June 25, 2012, 07:55:53 AM »
Joe Biden, In Leaked Memo, Told Obama Afghanistan Plan Flawed
By ANNE GEARAN 06/25/12 05:27 AM ET



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/25/joe-biden-obama-afghanistan_n_1623666.html?ref=topbar




WASHINGTON -- As President Barack Obama considered adding as many as 40,000 U.S. forces to a backsliding war in Afghanistan in 2009, Vice President Joe Biden warned him that the military rationale for doing so was flawed, a new book about Obama's expansion of the conflict says.

The book, "Little America: The War Within the War for Afghanistan," also says that in planning the drawdown of troops two years later, the White House intentionally sidelined the CIA. Obama purposely did not read a grim CIA assessment of Afghanistan that found little measurable benefit from the 30,000 "surge" forces Obama eventually approved, the book quotes a U.S. official as saying.


A copy of the book by Washington Post correspondent Rajiv Chandrasekaran was obtained by The Associated Press. It will be released Tuesday.


A previously undisclosed Biden memo to Obama in November 2009 reflects his view that military commanders were asking Obama to take a leap by adding tens of thousands of forces whose role was poorly defined.

Although Biden's doubts have become well known, the new book details how Biden used a months-long White House review of the war to question the basic premise that the same "counterinsurgency" strategy that had apparently worked in Iraq could be applied to Afghanistan.

"I do not see how anyone who took part in our discussions could emerge without profound questions about the viability of counterinsurgency," Biden wrote to Obama. To work, the counterinsurgency or "COIN" doctrine requires military gains to be paired with advances in government services, a "credible" Afghan government and Afghan security services that can take over, Biden's memo said.

Although the U.S. military could accomplish any technical assignment related to the new strategy, such as sweeping insurgents from a village, "no one can tell you with conviction when, and even if, we can produce the flip sides of COIN," Biden wrote. He supported a buildup of 20,000, half the number requested by then-war commander Gen. Stanley McChrystal.

The memo echoed a secret message to Washington from then-U.S. Ambassador Karl Eikenberry that had called Afghan President Hamid Karzai an unreliable partner for the proposed surge. Eikenberry, a former top Army general who had served in Afghanistan, said more forces would only delay the time when Afghans would take over responsibility for their own security.

The Eikenberry memo was leaked shortly after he sent it, and confirmed by U.S. officials. Biden was presumed to agree with it, but he stayed mum at the time.


Obama's compromise – 30,000 additional forces and a deadline to begin bringing them home – was intended to blunt the momentum of a resurgent Taliban insurgency without committing Obama to an open-ended war.

The classified CIA assessment found that Afghanistan was "trending to stalemate" in mid-2011, just ahead of the long-planned date when Obama would begin bringing the additional forces home.

Although many of Obama's advisers had also concluded that the surge strategy had not worked, a White House official is quoted as saying aides initially rebuffed the CIA analysis because it could undercut Obama's argument for withdrawing forces on schedule.

"We didn't want it," the official said.




________________________ ________________________ _______

True leadership right there! 

Very effective, successfull, and persuasive!   

Option D

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17367
  • Kelly the Con Way
Re: Obama has been a successful POTUS
« Reply #149 on: June 25, 2012, 08:21:34 AM »
Ha ha ha ha - are you joking?   You clowns wanted Bush brought to the Hauge for war crimes for waterboarding people, but applaud obama running murder inc. out of the WH with no oversight wghatsoever, and signing the NDAA etc.

The hypocrisy of the average obama drone like yourself is breathtaking. 
You know im going to destroy you on this now and make you withdraw from the thread.. (like i do on a daily basis with you)

First off. you said I was against water Boarding...Back that up. Find it. You wont, Because I dont give a shit about it.

Also, You call Killing Osama Bin Laden, Murder. Thats your business but its very telling. Politics over national Security, nice.

Now About the Obama drone thing. Do i need to post my stance again on this, you know where its going to go. Im not Pro Obama. Im pro Reason and Logic, which you are very opposed to. Once you start posting like a sensable logical member if American Society, i wont destroy you. Now... im going to write out my response to the "youre black so you like obama shit" (even though ive pubically came out against obama and for Ron Paul... like 90 times on here). I think ill have a cut and paste response to it so i dont have to keep typing it out... i swear.. like in real life, ive told you this maybe 100 times.