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Author Topic: Ask a Buddhist  (Read 5529 times)
DKlent
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« Reply #75 on: July 13, 2012, 10:29:36 PM »

yet you say that like me, you don't believe in re-incarnation...which is a major principle of Buddhism..plus you have sex like I so...

you are hypocritical

You are mistaken. You really need to read up on Buddhism. You weren't even aware of many of the major beliefs or the terms in Buddhism prior to me telling you, you disagree with the most significant beliefs in Buddhism, you disagree with Buddha himself, but you still say you are a Buddhist.

I'm confounded.

You have sex without acknowledging that sensual pleasure hinders enlightenment (Buddhist belief)
You eat meat, thus killing living beings which is prohibited (Buddhist belief)
You are unaware of the most important Buddhist beliefs and terms.

Hmm...

Reincarnation is not taken literally by many Buddhists. Buddhism is very metaphorical, and the issue of reincarnation can be viewed in many ways. It can be seen in the very simplistic manner that westerners see it (dying and being brought back as a bug or something) or it can be seen in the way that makes the most sense in regards to the Pali Sutras (Buddha's lectures) which is a metaphorical sense. Depends on the Buddhist.


Go ahead and explain how killing living beings is acceptable  in Buddhism and how buying meat coincides with the Buddha's teachings.

I don't want you to try to explain how eating meat is somehow "moral" or "acceptable" in general, I've been there and done that and it is an argument that you can never hope to win.

What I'm asking for is an explanation of how you are still a BUDDHIST if you eat meat, causing animals(sentient beings) to suffer and die.

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andreisdaman
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« Reply #76 on: July 13, 2012, 10:31:20 PM »

That may be so....Still up for debate but that may be so..


But you certainly are no Buddhist.


I'm a vegetarian. I am a man. I am a Buddhist.

I dispute your manhood as well since i have asked you some pointed questions during this thread and you have refused to answer....at least I am open and have explained myself...you keep saying "I'm a Buddhist"...I say the same thing yet you put me down

basically you're full of shit
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DKlent
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« Reply #77 on: July 13, 2012, 10:31:52 PM »

what is your evidence about your personal decision to not eat meat and what truth does it reveal?




Animals are sentient beings with feelings, intelligence, thoughts, suffering and pain and emotions. Killing sentient beings is wrong because they are sentient. Even if it is done in a moral painless manner (which it never is), it is still robbing the living being of its live.


Common sense stuff here. People who eat meat are people who don't have the emotional intelligence necessary to comprehend the damage that they do.
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DKlent
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« Reply #78 on: July 13, 2012, 10:33:46 PM »

I dispute your manhood as well since i have asked you some pointed questions during this thread and you have refused to answer....at least I am open and have explained myself...you keep saying "I'm a Buddhist"...I say the same thing yet you put me down

basically you're full of shit

What have I failed to answer? As far as I know I have answered every question asked.

I have sex, but I am in a monogamous relationship. However I acknowledge that the goal is to abandon that desire as well in order to achieve enlightenment. This coincides with Buddhist teachings. You don't agree with these teachings because you aren't a Buddhist.
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andreisdaman
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« Reply #79 on: July 13, 2012, 10:41:37 PM »

What have I failed to answer? As far as I know I have answered every question asked.

I have sex, but I am in a monogamous relationship. However I acknowledge that the goal is to abandon that desire as well in order to achieve enlightenment. This coincides with Buddhist teachings. You don't agree with these teachings because you aren't a Buddhist.

well then if you acknowledge that you have sex then that means you desire sex right???....you don't believe in reincarnation....yet you think you are a Buddhist.....

I practice a real world type of Buddhism.....I have acknowledged that I do not practice Buddhism as a religion....I do not believe in religion per se, and I do not believe in re-incarnation....I practice a psychological Buddhism.....a way of life....any religion that tells you not to have sex loses me right away....and again there is nothing wrong with desire..you act as if having sex with your girlfriend is wrong..its not.....you can have desire without attachment to that desire..so that it does not become an obssession
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Straw Man
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« Reply #80 on: July 13, 2012, 10:42:13 PM »


Animals are sentient beings with feelings, intelligence, thoughts, suffering and pain and emotions. Killing sentient beings is wrong because they are sentient. Even if it is done in a moral painless manner (which it never is), it is still robbing the living being of its live.


Common sense stuff here. People who eat meat are people who don't have the emotional intelligence necessary to comprehend the damage that they do.

this thread is a goof right ?

you can't be serious
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DKlent
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« Reply #81 on: July 13, 2012, 10:46:36 PM »

well then if you acknowledge that you have sex then that means you desire sex right???....you don't believe in reincarnation....yet you think you are a Buddhist.....

I practice a real world type of Buddhism.....I have acknowledged that I do not practice Buddhism as a religion....I do not believe in religion per se, and I do not believe in re-incarnation....I practice a psychological Buddhism.....a way of life....any religion that tells you not to have sex loses me right away....and again there is nothing wrong with desire..you act as if having sex with your girlfriend is wrong..its not.....you can have desire without attachment to that desire..so that it does not become an obssession

You are failing to read what I am typing.

1. I acknowledge the fact that enlightenment is impossible without abandoning the desire for sex.

2. I believe in enlightenment, simply in a metaphorical form of it that is common among Buddhists.


No one is perfect. Not you nor I. However, The first step is admitting that you are wrong, but if YOU can't ever admit that sexual desire prevents you from achieving enlightenment in Buddhism then you aren't a Buddhist. Simple as that.


I'm not saying that sex is "wrong". I'm just saying that, IN BUDDHISM, enlightened beings don't have sex. They don't have the desire for sex and they don't have sex because sex, a bodily pleasure, prevents enlightenment in the first place.

That is why Monks are celibate. It is for a very important reason.

You disagree with this basic Buddhist belief...That's fine by me...But please stop claiming you are a Buddhist.


I don't disagree with the belief, I strive towards it even though I am not perfect...I acknowledge that it is a fact in Buddhist teachings that can't be denied.



Same goes for killing living beings. If you kill living beings, without regret or remorse and intend to do it again and again...You certainly are no Buddhist.
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DKlent
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« Reply #82 on: July 13, 2012, 10:49:05 PM »

this thread is a goof right ?

you can't be serious

Just go ahead and deny that animals are sentient beings capable of emotion, feelings, thoughts, etc....


Just go ahead and deny it and I'll go ahead and refute you with scientific evidence. Then after that you'll dismiss the scientific facts as somehow flawed without ever addressing them because you can't admit you are wrong.

Then I'll call you out to address them and then you'll abandon the thread.



So...Your move?  Wink




P.S...In order to save time I'll go ahead and make the next move anyway:


http://delightmakers.com/news-bleat/wild-elephants-gather-inexplicably-mourn-death-of-elephant-whisperer/

http://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/o.o.i.s?news_item=5859&id=24890

http://www.nonhumanslavery.com/dr-holly-cheever-on-a-mothers-love

http://delightmakers.com/news-bleat/wild-elephants-gather-inexplicably-mourn-death-of-elephant-whisperer/



http://www.springer.com/life+sciences/behavioural/journal/10071

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-emotions

http://animal.discovery.com/news/briefs/20030811/emotions.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26316788/

www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3354028/Dogs-can-read-emotion-in-human-faces.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003347204003392

books.google.com/?id=x1bbhp_f9pQC&dq=emotion+animals+date:2006-2008

http://www.livescience.com/512-whales-speak-dialects.html

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12993-chimps-outperform-humans-at-memory-task.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/030439599400095V

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/372/lega/witn/shelly-e.htm

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/newsletters/v11n1/11n19cfr.htm

http://www.springerlink.com/content/p4g44725t17126x0/

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090023307000676

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/science/10angier.html

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/print/2008/03/animal-minds/virginia-morell-text

http://www.perceptionweb.com/abstract.cgi?id=v070385

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7771259.stm

http://news.opb.org/article/research_into_rat_emotions_could_help_develop_human_drugs/

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/27/horrors_we_hide/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deLIcUOjszw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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andreisdaman
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« Reply #83 on: July 13, 2012, 10:51:23 PM »

The Chinese are a Buddhist culture yet there are over a billion of them....that means they are having lots of sex.....so you tell me that Buddhist husbands and wives are not having sex???.....this is a fallacy that we cannot have sex....I read it that we cannot become obssessed by sex and constantly crave it with others......however, sex with your significant other is okay
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DKlent
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« Reply #84 on: July 13, 2012, 10:58:18 PM »

The Chinese are a Buddhist culture yet there are over a billion of them....that means they are having lots of sex.....so you tell me that Buddhist husbands and wives are not having sex???.....this is a fallacy that we cannot have sex....I read it that we cannot become obssessed by sex and constantly crave it with others......however, sex with your significant other is okay

I can't explain this any clearer to you than I already have....

First of all, most people who say they are "Buddhist" are about as "Buddhist" as these wealth craving republican Christians we see all over the place are Christian. People identify as "buddhist" just like catholics identify as catholic, even if they aren't really catholics. it is a cultural thing.

Now...For the last time:


Buddhists who have sex, real Buddhists that is, have sex but acknowledge that sex itself is hindering enlightenment. They have it because they realize that they will never achieve enlightenment (at least in this life).
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Straw Man
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« Reply #85 on: July 13, 2012, 10:59:41 PM »

Just go ahead and deny that animals are sentient beings capable of emotion, feelings, thoughts, etc....


Just go ahead and deny it and I'll go ahead and refute you with scientific evidence. Then after that you'll dismiss the scientific facts as somehow flawed without ever addressing them because you can't admit you are wrong.

Then I'll call you out to address them and then you'll abandon the thread.



So...Your move?  Wink




P.S...In order to save time I'll go ahead and make the next move anyway:


http://delightmakers.com/news-bleat/wild-elephants-gather-inexplicably-mourn-death-of-elephant-whisperer/

http://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/o.o.i.s?news_item=5859&id=24890

http://www.nonhumanslavery.com/dr-holly-cheever-on-a-mothers-love

http://delightmakers.com/news-bleat/wild-elephants-gather-inexplicably-mourn-death-of-elephant-whisperer/



http://www.springer.com/life+sciences/behavioural/journal/10071

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-emotions

http://animal.discovery.com/news/briefs/20030811/emotions.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26316788/

www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3354028/Dogs-can-read-emotion-in-human-faces.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003347204003392

books.google.com/?id=x1bbhp_f9pQC&dq=emotion+animals+date:2006-2008

http://www.livescience.com/512-whales-speak-dialects.html

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12993-chimps-outperform-humans-at-memory-task.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/030439599400095V

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/372/lega/witn/shelly-e.htm

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/newsletters/v11n1/11n19cfr.htm

http://www.springerlink.com/content/p4g44725t17126x0/

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090023307000676

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/science/10angier.html

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/print/2008/03/animal-minds/virginia-morell-text

http://www.perceptionweb.com/abstract.cgi?id=v070385

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7771259.stm

http://news.opb.org/article/research_into_rat_emotions_could_help_develop_human_drugs/

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/27/horrors_we_hide/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deLIcUOjszw&feature=youtube_gdata_player



there is nothing to prove

believe whatever you want

call yourself whatever you want

Fred Phelps calls himself a christian and that makes no difference to me
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DKlent
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« Reply #86 on: July 13, 2012, 10:59:54 PM »

Now, here is a question for you:

Why did the Buddha become celibate?


Why are all monks sworn to a vow of celibacy?
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DKlent
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« Reply #87 on: July 13, 2012, 11:01:52 PM »

there is nothing to prove

believe whatever you want

call yourself whatever you want

Fred Phelps calls himself a christian and that makes no difference to me


 Cool
I just proved that animals have emotions, feelings, suffering, pain, thoughts and cognition in one fell swoop.

This proves my point that killing them is wrong, just like it is to kill anything else (including humans).

This means that eating meat is wrong.




Next question?
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andreisdaman
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« Reply #88 on: July 13, 2012, 11:02:57 PM »

I can't explain this any clearer to you than I already have....

First of all, most people who say they are "Buddhist" are about as "Buddhist" as these wealth craving republican Christians we see all over the place are Christian. People identify as "buddhist" just like catholics identify as catholic, even if they aren't really catholics. it is a cultural thing.

Now...For the last time:


Buddhists who have sex, real Buddhists that is, have sex but acknowledge that sex itself is hindering enlightenment. They have it because they realize that they will never achieve enlightenment (at least in this life).

yes I get that....but you can STILL call yourself a Bhuddist as you are TRYING to reach enlightenment....as long as you have committed yourself on the path toward enlightenment (the way) then you are still a Bhuddist....you are in training so to speak...seeking enlightenment until you finally get there..it is a day by day process....If I don't have sex for 10 years and then I slip up and have sex because I couldn't help myself, then I am STILL a Bhuddist...you don't have to be perfect BEFORE being a Bhuddist.....you have to commit yourself to getting there...being on the path, on the WAY

your interpretation is way too strict
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Straw Man
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« Reply #89 on: July 13, 2012, 11:08:19 PM »


 Cool
I just proved that animals have emotions, feelings, suffering, pain, thoughts and cognition in one fell swoop.

This proves my point that killing them is wrong, just like it is to kill anything else (including humans).

This means that eating meat is wrong.




Next question?

you didn't prove anything and whether animal have emotions, feeling, suffer pain, etc.. is irrelevant

the nature of their being is exactly like yours and it doesn't matter whether you eat them or not

if it make you feel better to not eat meat then that is your business

what's with the make believe Buddhist fundie thing you a doing ?

your persoal dogma is your problem to deal with
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DKlent
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« Reply #90 on: July 13, 2012, 11:10:51 PM »

you didn't prove anything and whether animal have emotions, feeling, suffer pain, etc.. is irrelevant

the nature of their being is exactly like yours and it doesn't matter whether you eat them or not

if it make you feel better to not eat meat then that is your business

what's with the make believe Buddhist fundie thing you a doing ?

your persoal dogma is your problem to deal with


Would you eat a human being? Their nature is also exactly the same as yours. Does that mean it is irrelevant if you eat them or not?

Your logic is flawed. Try again.  Grin
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andreisdaman
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« Reply #91 on: July 13, 2012, 11:11:58 PM »


Would you eat a human being? Their nature is also exactly the same as yours. Does that mean it is irrelevant if you eat them or not?

Your logic is flawed. Try again.  Grin

I hope you were looking in the mirror when you said this
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DKlent
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« Reply #92 on: July 13, 2012, 11:13:46 PM »

yes I get that....but you can STILL call yourself a Bhuddist as you are TRYING to reach enlightenment....as long as you have committed yourself on the path toward enlightenment (the way) then you are still a Bhuddist....you are in training so to speak...seeking enlightenment until you finally get there..it is a day by day process....If I don't have sex for 10 years and then I slip up and have sex because I couldn't help myself, then I am STILL a Bhuddist...you don't have to be perfect BEFORE being a Bhuddist.....you have to commit yourself to getting there...being on the path, on the WAY

your interpretation is way too strict

If you were doing it right, and were a strict buddhist for 10 years, then you wouldn't "slip up". If you did then you weren't doing it right. You seem to be changing exactly what you are saying back and forth. You, as you've said before, believe that enlightenment is possible even if you freely have sex as long as you 'detach' yourself from the sex. This is 100% contrary to Buddhist teachings.

But now you seem to be saying that refraining from sex IS necessary to reach enlightenment?


BTW, Why did the Buddha become celibate? Why do Buddhist monks become celibate?
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andreisdaman
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« Reply #93 on: July 13, 2012, 11:50:53 PM »

If you were doing it right, and were a strict buddhist for 10 years, then you wouldn't "slip up". If you did then you weren't doing it right. You seem to be changing exactly what you are saying back and forth. You, as you've said before, believe that enlightenment is possible even if you freely have sex as long as you 'detach' yourself from the sex. This is 100% contrary to Buddhist teachings.

But now you seem to be saying that refraining from sex IS necessary to reach enlightenment?


BTW, Why did the Buddha become celibate? Why do Buddhist monks become celibate?

I understand why Bhuddist monks become celibate..but do you actually believe they were celibate all their lives?HuhHuhHuh....it took them some time to reach that point...which is my point....There isn't a litmus test you must pass in order to declare yourself a Buddhist.......it doesn't work that way.....you seek perfection.....you don't become perfect first,....by your standards, YOU YOURSELF are not a Bhuddist because you STILL engage in sex with your girlfriend......from my standard, you art still a Bhuddist...but ironically from your perspective you are NOT
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garebear
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« Reply #94 on: July 14, 2012, 03:27:00 AM »

Religion isn't about the truth, it's about feeling superior.

This thread proves it.
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G
andreisdaman
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« Reply #95 on: July 14, 2012, 05:41:57 AM »

Religion isn't about the truth, it's about feeling superior.

This thread proves it.

not so with Buddhism
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Butterbean
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« Reply #96 on: July 14, 2012, 08:08:06 AM »

DKlent, what kind of food sources do you get your protein from?  I realize quinoa, beans, dairy, eggs etc can be decent sources, but maybe not enough. Do you supplement w/whey shakes etc?

Can you please post a typical day of your diet?



Also, you are in a relationship.  Is your girl also a Buddhist?  Do you feel you may be attached to her?
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R
DKlent
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« Reply #97 on: July 14, 2012, 09:48:53 AM »

I understand why Bhuddist monks become celibate..but do you actually believe they were celibate all their lives?HuhHuhHuh....it took them some time to reach that point...which is my point....There isn't a litmus test you must pass in order to declare yourself a Buddhist.......it doesn't work that way.....you seek perfection.....you don't become perfect first,....by your standards, YOU YOURSELF are not a Bhuddist because you STILL engage in sex with your girlfriend......from my standard, you art still a Bhuddist...but ironically from your perspective you are NOT

Ok. Do you intend to become celibate in the future in order to achieve enlightenment?
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DKlent
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« Reply #98 on: July 14, 2012, 09:54:52 AM »

DKlent, what kind of food sources do you get your protein from?  I realize quinoa, beans, dairy, eggs etc can be decent sources, but maybe not enough. Do you supplement w/whey shakes etc?

Can you please post a typical day of your diet?



Also, you are in a relationship.  Is your girl also a Buddhist?  Do you feel you may be attached to her?

I get over 200 grams of protein per day. I drink whey shakes but only from certain sources. Even if I were a vegan I'd still get enough protein.

I eat non-soy protein bars (Vegan) that have 20 grams of protein each and vitamins. I eat about 2 a day.

I eat about 3 Peanut Butter (or almond butter) jelly sandwiches a day. I use enough peanut butter to get over 20 grams of protein per sandwich with the bread and preserves.

I eat a lot of high-protein grains.

Plus I supplement with 2 whey-shakes per day. Each one has about 30 grams of protein per serving (not including the milk).

I always eat a few servings of fruits or vegetables each day Also.

Whole grains and whole wheat are important in my diet, as are high-protein beans and legumes.



I'm in a relationship. My girlfriend is not a Buddhist. I am no more attached to her than I am to myself.
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Straw Man
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« Reply #99 on: July 14, 2012, 10:22:43 AM »


Would you eat a human being? Their nature is also exactly the same as yours. Does that mean it is irrelevant if you eat them or not?

Your logic is flawed. Try again.  Grin

There well may be a situation where I would eat human being.  I certainly can't say it would never happen
I'd like to think I would be able to allow myself to starve to death but I can't say for certain
it's very unlikely of course and I would not kill someone to eat them but this is all really irrelevent

what matters is intention and also your personal beliefs.  The historical figure we refer to as Buddha didn't have a problem eating meat as long as the animal wasn't killed for the intention of providing food for monks and didn't have any such rules for lay people.   More esoteric teachings go even further on the subject

What is your deal anyway

Are an ordained monk or do you belong to and practice a particular sect of buddhism

The purpose of this thread seems to be soley to boost your own ego and leture everyone on what they should believe
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