Did your father/gramps/greatgramps do something in WW2 ? (or you Wes) ?

[Shockwave]

Ya, I'm sure they were angels who had the Jews' best interests in mind 

I said Glass of Juice! NOT GAS THE JEWS!!!!

[gym**rat]

My dad fought on D-Day in Nomandy. He rarely talked about WW2 when he was alive. He gave me a German soldier's helmet. I still have it. Plus a blackjack he made while holed up in a building while bombing was going on.
My mom was born in Paris and had many Jewish friends that were abducted and taken away, never seen them again. She talks about it less than my dad. She became an French-American translator for the French goverment during the war and that is how she met my dad. It must have been horrible beyond belief.

[Mazda323]

My grandfather (my mothers dad) fought for the American Army (he was imigrand in the U.S. since 1920) and his brother (imigrand in the U.S. since 1915) was a translator for the British, New Zealand and Australian soldiers in Crete during the war.

I have an original army bag, gift from a New Zealand soldier to my grandfather's brother. The bag stil has the name of the soldier on it...

My grandfather (my dads dad) fought against the Italians at 1940 in Northern Greece and Albania.

[MORTALCOIL]

My dad fought on D-Day in Nomandy. He rarely talked about WW2 when he was alive. He gave me a German soldier's helmet. I still have it. Plus a blackjack he made while holed up in a building while bombing was going on.
My mom was born in Paris and had many Jewish friends that were abducted and taken away, never seen them again. She talks about it less than my dad. She became an French-American translator for the French goverment during the war and that is how she met my dad. It must have been horrible beyond belief.

And actually France is the country that suffered the least during WW2. The vast majority chose to be cowards and managed to turn things around at the last minute.

[gym**rat]

And actually France is the country that suffered the least during WW2. The vast majority chose to be cowards and managed to turn things around at the last minute.

Yea, I ask my mom daily why she didn't grab a rifle and go after Hitler. She is such a pussy.   

[MORTALCOIL]

Yea, I ask my mom daily why she didn't grab a rifle and go after Hitler. She is such a pussy.   

Well, the Brits sucked it up, so did the Russians, Yougoslavians, etc....The disgusting thing about France (I was born here) is that they all try to pass as resistants (the Resistance never had more than a 75 000 people in it- that number jumped suddenly to 200 000 between March and July1944). Thing is, you can't be on both sides of the fence.

[gym**rat]

Well, the Brits sucked it up, so did the Russians, Yougoslavians, etc....The disgusting thing about France (I was born here) is that they all try to pass as resistants (the Resistance never had more than a 75 000 people in it- that number jumped suddenly to 200 000 between March and July1944). Thing is, you can't be on both sides of the fence.

Point well taken. You are still in France? If so, what area? I am wanting to go to Paris. My mom has never had any desire to go back. Between the war and the wino mom and dad her time there was not very enjoyable.

[MORTALCOIL]

Point well taken. You are still in France? If so, what area? I am wanting to go to Paris. My mom has never had any desire to go back. Between the war and the wino mom and dad her time there was not very enjoyable.

I live in Paris; always lived here. Somehow I wouldn't be a great judge to tell you if it's worth the ride or not; probably is. I know the city inside out which grants me a certain number of good things. All depends where you stay, with whom and what you have access too. Parisians are assholes for most part.

[gym**rat]

I live in Paris; always lived here. Somehow I wouldn't be a great judge to tell you if it's worth the ride or not; probably is. I know the city inside out which grants me a certain number of good things. All depends where you stay, with whom and what you have access too. Parisians are assholes for most part.

My daughter went to Paris about 15 years ago with the Girl Scouts. Some Frenchman on the train just started yelling at all of them and cussing. Freaked the shit out of them. She agrees with you, their assholes. I would like to see if I have any relatives alive there and see my Grandparents graves. I will talk to my mom and find out what area they lived in and PM you.

[MORTALCOIL]

My daughter went to Paris about 15 years ago with the Girl Scouts. Some Frenchman on the train just started yelling at all of them and cussing. Freaked the shit out of them. She agrees with you, their assholes. I would like to see if I have any relatives alive there and see my Grandparents graves. I will talk to my mom and find out what area they lived in and PM you.

No problem.

[Voice of Doom]

Pierre Woodman is French....and he's pretty awesome.

[MORTALCOIL]

Pierre Woodman is French....and he's pretty awesome.

Lol. I knew him about 10-15 years ago. He was a pretty cool guy. Was married to Tanya back then. Heard they split little time after that.

[Stark]

Ya, I'm sure they were angels who had the Jews' best interests in mind  

look I like you man but with a comment like this it shows me that you really don't know what you are talking about.

But I do know because I have read more books than I can count about the subject with primary focus on the Reichs SS and Waffen SS and especially everything about Concentration camps etc. etc.

So let me tell you and seriously I am not talking down on you but you are misguided.

For starters, there is a huge difference between the Waffen SS (the fighting arm of the SS) and the Einsatzgruppen who were mostly drafted from SS police battalions.
To be accepted you had to be up to the standard of racial doctrine of the third Reich but there are many accounts of complaint letters send by officers of the Waffen SS in regards to orders given to them by the High Command how to treat Russian POW after Barbarossa was in full swing, that is just one example that not everybody who was in the Waffen SS did also participate in the mass shootings of jews in the east.
In fact (and If you want to I can recommend some good books on that subject unfortunately all written in German) the mostly volunteers who were shooting and volunteered for the Einsattruppen were a very small % of the overall SS.

The Waffen SS was an elite military Unit, no different to the US Marines - they were the firebrigade of the east to be used to halt the enemy what ever the cost, no other unit has received that many casualties than the SS has.

Now, once again an entirely different matter was the drafting of SS from foreign countries - most of these people had no love for Hitler at all or no ill feelings towards jews, but they were simply rounded up and given a uniform - take my grand dad for example he didn't know he was going to be in the Waffen SS until he got his uniform.

There are so many more excamples why the Waffen SS was not what a lot of people want to believe - the National geographic educated person thinks of any Waffen SS member as a member of the death scull brigade, but did you know that there was an uproar amongst the Waffen SS when members (mostly old) SS who were ordered to become Concentration camp guards were ordered to wear the death skull sign, until than it was only the elite of the elite that were allowed to wear that and there was a general feeling of disgust that "these" SS members who were mostly the once that the HQ wanted to get rid off where wearing now a sign that was highly regarded and by many worn with pride.

If you can read German I highly recommend a book called Saat in den Sturm - its written in a very honest way by the youngest SS German volunteer who took part in the french invasion and later in the eastern front - its a very honest book and the author himself since than has died i believe.

[Shockwave]

look I like you man but with a comment like this it shows me that you really don't know what you are talking about.

But I do know because I have read more books than I can count about the subject with primary focus on the Reichs SS and Waffen SS and especially everything about Concentration camps etc. etc.

So let me tell you and seriously I am not talking down on you but you are misguided.

For starters, there is a huge difference between the Waffen SS (the fighting arm of the SS) and the Einsatzgruppen who were mostly drafted from SS police battalions.
To be accepted you had to be up to the standard of racial doctrine of the third Reich but there are many accounts of complaint letters send by officers of the Waffen SS in regards to orders given to them by the High Command how to treat Russian POW after Barbarossa was in full swing, that is just one example that not everybody who was in the Waffen SS did also participate in the mass shootings of jews in the east.
In fact (and If you want to I can recommend some good books on that subject unfortunately all written in German) the mostly volunteers who were shooting and volunteered for the Einsattruppen were a very small % of the overall SS.

The Waffen SS was an elite military Unit, no different to the US Marines - they were the firebrigade of the east to be used to halt the enemy what ever the cost, no other unit has received that many casualties than the SS has.

Now, once again an entirely different matter was the drafting of SS from foreign countries - most of these people had no love for Hitler at all or no ill feelings towards jews, but they were simply rounded up and given a uniform - take my grand dad for example he didn't know he was going to be in the Waffen SS until he got his uniform.

There are so many more excamples why the Waffen SS was not what a lot of people want to believe - the National geographic educated person thinks of any Waffen SS member as a member of the death scull brigade, but did you know that there was an uproar amongst the Waffen SS when members (mostly old) SS who were ordered to become Concentration camp guards were ordered to wear the death skull sign, until than it was only the elite of the elite that were allowed to wear that.

There are always people that sign up to do the right thing in every military unit, no different to that guy that was telling the story about the German Soldier that told his relative to hide the Jewish kid quickly.
It sucks that the whole group gets lumped in as evil genocidal killers, but that life.

People always want to demonize the bad guys, but the truth is, many were just soldiers, like in any other military, fighting an enemy they may or may not agree with. Im sure most werent directly responsible for slaughtering Jews.

[Stark]

There are always people that sign up to do the right thing in every military unit, no different to that guy that was telling the story about the German Soldier that told his relative to hide the Jewish kid quickly.
It sucks that the whole group gets lumped in as evil genocidal killers, but that life.

People always want to demonize the bad guys, but the truth is, many were just soldiers, like in any other military, fighting an enemy they may or may not agree with. Im sure most werent directly responsible for slaughtering Jews.

I am in no way or form closing my eyes to the mass killings, my wife's mother lives about 10 min away from the forest were they killed millions all mass graves are marked now like this



And there are hundreds...

When you read some of the first hand stories how this went along for days and weeks you really cannot help but start imagine your own wife and kids and how you would feel like.
It was horrific hopefully NEVER EVER to be repeated.

But there are so many other stories as well, like the General in the east (wehrmacht) cannot remember his name but he is mentioned in the German book - What makes normal people become mass murderes which entirely deals with the psychological aspect how the mass killing was organized (its an excellent book for understanding what really went on and how this all could have happened) he talks about a General that with his troops rounded up the jews he was supposed to "evacuate" and put them on trucks and drove them to safety - his troops shot at the SS that wanted to stop them at a bridge and only because he was nearly executed did not all survive, but he and his troops saved about a thousand lifes and there are monuments in Israel one were they call him a righteous man.

its not always black and white there are a lot of gray shades as well.

[Raymondo]

look I like you man but with a comment like this it shows me that you really don't know what you are talking about.

But I do know because I have read more books than I can count about the subject with primary focus on the Reichs SS and Waffen SS and especially everything about Concentration camps etc. etc.

So let me tell you and seriously I am not talking down on you but you are misguided.

For starters, there is a huge difference between the Waffen SS (the fighting arm of the SS) and the Einsatzgruppen who were mostly drafted from SS police battalions.
To be accepted you had to be up to the standard of racial doctrine of the third Reich but there are many accounts of complaint letters send by officers of the Waffen SS in regards to orders given to them by the High Command how to treat Russian POW after Barbarossa was in full swing, that is just one example that not everybody who was in the Waffen SS did also participate in the mass shootings of jews in the east.
In fact (and If you want to I can recommend some good books on that subject unfortunately all written in German) the mostly volunteers who were shooting and volunteered for the Einsattruppen were a very small % of the overall SS.

The Waffen SS was an elite military Unit, no different to the US Marines - they were the firebrigade of the east to be used to halt the enemy what ever the cost, no other unit has received that many casualties than the SS has.

Now, once again an entirely different matter was the drafting of SS from foreign countries - most of these people had no love for Hitler at all or no ill feelings towards jews, but they were simply rounded up and given a uniform - take my grand dad for example he didn't know he was going to be in the Waffen SS until he got his uniform.

There are so many more excamples why the Waffen SS was not what a lot of people want to believe - the National geographic educated person thinks of any Waffen SS member as a member of the death scull brigade, but did you know that there was an uproar amongst the Waffen SS when members (mostly old) SS who were ordered to become Concentration camp guards were ordered to wear the death skull sign, until than it was only the elite of the elite that were allowed to wear that and there was a general feeling of disgust that "these" SS members who were mostly the once that the HQ wanted to get rid off where wearing now a sign that was highly regarded and by many worn with pride.

If you can read German I highly recommend a book called Saat in den Sturm - its written in a very honest way by the youngest SS German volunteer who took part in the french invasion and later in the eastern front - its a very honest book and the author himself since than has died i believe.

I'm misguided in what exactly?

Are you saying the Waffen-SS were the Jews' secret protectors or something?

[Stark]

I'm misguided in what exactly?

Are you saying the Waffen-SS were the Jews' secret protectors or something?

You are misguided because you think every member of the Waffen SS was also a jew killing monster, they were just an elite unit - I know my grand dad never wanted to be in the Waffen SS because it was well known that the surviving chances of members of the Waffen SS was less than zero - he never had and probably never will harbor any ill feelings towards the jews, he hates the russians but if you read up a little how the Russians scared and raped Latvia you understand why.

[Raymondo]

You are misguided because you think every member of the Waffen SS was also a jew killing monster, they were just an elite unit - I know my grand dad never wanted to be in the Waffen SS because it was well known that the surviving chances of members of the Waffen SS was less than zero - he never had and probably never will harbor any ill feelings towards the jews, he hates the russians but if you read up a little how the Russians scared and raped Latvia you understand why.

Is that what I wrote? Someone's using the straw man argument, methinks.

[Stark]

Is that what I wrote? Someone's using the straw man argument, methinks.

Forget it - again its not fun having arguments with you.

[Raymondo]

Forget it - again its not fun having arguments with you.

haha, kein problem mein freund

[Stark]

haha, kein problem mein freund

Less dich mal ein in die Materie

[Shockwave]

Nein.

/knowledge of German vocabulary

[jpm101]

Stark:

Very interesting stories about you family history and events at that time in history. Read a few books/articles about the SS. Don't know if any of the authors held any bias, but there is a strong theme running through their writings that  suggestion that many of the SS core were bi-sexual or homosexual. With the practice not that well hidden during that period in history. Confirmation, or not, to these suggestions put forth by journalist/authors? (and yes, the German military did enter schools and select volunteers for the Fatherland)


Dutch Guy:

You probably have seen "Solders Of Orange", with Rutger Hauer. Saw in in film class and it always stuck with me. Exceptional film and story telling. Subtitles, of course.

[Stark]

Stark:

Very interesting stories about you family history and events at that time in history. Read a few books/articles about the SS. Don't know if any of the authors held any bias, but there is a strong theme running through their writings that  suggestion that many of the SS core were bi-sexual or homosexual. With the practice not that well hidden during that period in history. Confirmation, or not, to these suggestions put forth by journalist/authors? (and yes, the German military did enter schools and select volunteers for the Fatherland)


Dutch Guy:

You probably have seen "Solders Of Orange", with Rutger Hauer. Saw in in film class and it always stuck with me. Exceptional film and story telling. Subtitles, of course.

Its true the whole aspect of the SS was very homoerotic - before Himmler had to act it was very common and probably was after the clamp down as well.

[jpm101]

Only faint family connection to WWII was that one time, during the pacific theater campaign, there were more US marines/navy on American Samoa than the total native population (just a guess, roughly 40-45 thousand locals than). According to my grandfather, who lived there all his life. Probably one of the reasons so many came over to the mainland and settled in Oceanside and San Diego after the war.