Cycle Advice

[Frank White]

Greetings all.

I'm looking to put together a cutting cycle, and have the following products to choose from:

Tren A - 80ml/100mg
Test prop - 40ml/100mg
EQ-250 - 20ml
Sust 250 - 24ml
Nandrolone decanoate - 20ml/200mg

PCT:

HCG
nolva
clomid

Fat burners:

L-clen
L-T3

I've dropped about 20 lbs over the last few months utilizing a high protein, clean diet and an EC stack.  But I feel I've also lost some lean muscle mass, and just recently, some strength along with the drop in bf %. So, like most, I'm looking to retain strength while continuing to drop bf% and attain a "hard" look. Stats right now are 5'11/205/16-17%bf/50yr. I'm a veteran a several cycles in the past, but have been clean for the last 13 years.

My initial thoughts are to run test prop/tren at 100mg EOD for ten weeks. Considering adding the EQ, but I've read some conflicting opinions on that. I've also read opinions that you should kick start the cycle with test only before starting the tren. Any thoughts on this and if I should consider any other compound I have available would be greatly appreciated.

[Overload]

Since it's your first cycle in a long time. Go with something simple.

100mg Prop/Tren EoD

No need to kick start, just start pinning both compounds whenever you are ready. If you have access to Anavar you can throw some of that in at 50mg ED the first 4-6 weeks.

Personally, i would try to run the cycle at least 12-16 weeks.

Good luck!

[Frank White]

Personally, i would try to run the cycle at least 12-16 weeks

I wouldn't mind going 16 weeks, but I thought I was pushing the envelope a little by running tren for 10 weeks, as most sources I've read recommend just six or eight weeks. Plus, I don't have enough prop to last that long, with the sust being my only other source of test. Perhaps I should switch to something else after 10 weeks?

[Frank White]

if you gonna use prop, then keep the sustanon very low for the diet.

like 250mg all 2 weeks low.

I hadn't planned on using the sust unless I needed it for the test kick start. I know it's best used for bulking rather than cutting.

[ChristopherA]

I hadn't planned on using the sust unless I needed it for the test kick start. I know it's best used for bulking rather than cutting.

Not always. If your diet is in check the sust won't bloat you. I been using it on my cut with great results but am switching to prop now because I want all short esters. I would use one or the other like Gal said

[ChristopherA]

indeed.

sometimes, long test esters go a long way in cutting diets, esp if one keeps the diet clean,itll have some very good effects.

ppl go too much by the anabolics book "rules", instead of trying stuff for themselves.

ive asked a former pro who is notorious for being shredded like hell about his drug regiment for cutting, i expected the usual preictable list, but was suprised by what he had to say.tried it myself with great results.

if the diet is shit, one can ruin his shape even on prop and tren.

Exactly. Tren is gonna give you some SLIGHT leeway with diet but if you're out eating pizzas guess what? You're gonna be a fatfuck. I dont care if you're on 1400mgs a week and there are allot of crazy fucks pushing their tren doses that high. Keep the diet tight, drink plenty of water, and watch the sodium and you wont bloat. There's def something to be said for how your body personally handles diff compounds too. i am def prone to bloating and no matter what cypionate puts a couple lbs of water on me. I generally stay away from long esters but for what ever reason the combo of tests in sust treats me very well.

[Frank White]

So i just finished week 1 of my tren/prop (100mg of both EOD) cycle, and here's how my week went if anyone's interested. I decided to hold off on running the clen/t3 until the end of the cycle, and stuck with the EC stack I've been using. I have a very long history of sleep issues going back to childhood, so I'm a little concerned that running the more powerful fat burners combined with the tren will make me a basket case.

Monday: First shot, everything went as expected in the gym with a typical chest/bi workout.

Tuesday: After a night of waking up every two hours, I arose Tuesday feeling like I was hit by a bus. My injection site (glute) hurt like hell and my whole body had an achy, flulike feeling. Sometimes when I wake feeling like this it will go away after breakfast and some coffee, but unfortunately for me, this wasn't one of those days. Tuesday is my leg day, so with great effort I trudged off to the gym and had a very poor workout, with all my lifts being significantly off my normal weights.

Wednesday:  Decided to start taking  Benadryl to help with sleep after the first night, and I managed to get four hours of sleep in before having to get up to pee. Then got in about another 2 1/2-3 hours of broken sleep after that. The thing I hate about sleep aids is that I usually feel very groggy the next day and never truly feel "awake". And that's how I felt on Wednesday. Took shot #2, off day from gym.

Thursday: My "flulike" symptoms were gone, but still felt very groggy and exhausted. Went to gym and trained shoulders, and was able to train with my normal weights. Took my typical short nap after training, but it did nothing to help with my exhaustion. Worked about five hours Thursday night.

Friday: Shot #3. Still feeling very tired. Back/tri day at gym, and once again, my lifts were off. Struggled to get 3x315 on my deadlift, when I normally pull 5x315 very easily. Decided to forego my normal dead weight progression and stuck with two more sets of 3x315. I had planned to work a little Friday night, but after getting myself ready , I quickly realized I was too tired to leave the house LOL. Luckily I only work parttime and make my own hours, so it's not a big deal.

Saturday: Still fucking exhausted. Hung at my pool with my daughter, too tired to work, off day from the gym.

Sunday: Decided to drop the Benadryl to see if that would help. Got a solid 6 1/2 hours of sleep and quite frankly this is the best I've felt since starting the cycle. Took shot #4, and getting ready to work. Another off day from the gym.

Hopefully, I've seen the worst of the sides and I'm looking forward to start seeing some good results in the gym this week, and I'm already feeling just a tad bit leaner. As I said in my first post, it's been quite a while since I've cycled, but I have to admit, going to the gym and being weaker while on gear was a new and unpleasant experience for me LOL.  

[Overload]

It has only just begun.

Keep us updated.

[rph159]

  What's your goal for the cycle? Your all over the place lol deca and sust will bloat you up and using two 19nors (tren and deca) is just asking for trouble. Leave out the deca and sust. Also take that pct shit and throw it down the toilet. Save that sust and run it .5ml 2x a week for "pct".

[Frank White]

What's your goal for the cycle? Your all over the place lol deca and sust will bloat you up and using two 19nors (tren and deca) is just asking for trouble. Leave out the deca and sust.

No, I'm just running tren and prop. I just listed everything I have available. My goal is to maintain muscle and strength while losing bf. I was very happy with my progress naturally up until a few weeks before I started the cycle. It was then I felt I was starting to lose some lean mass and my strength took a big dive.

Also take that pct shit and throw it down the toilet. Save that sust and run it .5ml 2x a week for "pct".

Well, there's one I haven't heard before...

[rph159]

nah you can use any drug for cutting or bulking, you can get shredded on deca/anadrol,lol

diet is the big factor there, not drugs.

....right.   ok diet does determine wether you'll gain fat on certain compounds but it most certainly does depend on the drugs. your just not going to put on decent mass with masteron or anavar no matter if you eat 8000 calories a day. just like your not going to look good or get shredded on deca or dbol or anadrol because of the water retention even if you eat like a saint.

[rph159]

nah, look at me, on the allegedly bloating test e only:

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc490/hadabusa/IMG_3324.jpg

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc490/hadabusa/IMG_3323.jpg

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc490/hadabusa/IMG_3317.jpg

and im not even eating 100% clean yet.
ill have capuchinos every day, yoghurt, some bit sugary sweets and soups full of tomato sause and salt, bread and a suboptimal protein bar every day.

test e only, no fatburners.

of course you can gain mass on masteron, itll be very good mass, even.

i never mentioned test e. some people bloat on it some don't. me personally i can use cyp and not get a drop of water. test e will bloat me up though. everyones different. but I've never seen someone stay shredded on deca and dbol.

great physique by the way

[Frank White]

well, thats that with the ugl steroids, you might get bit fevery feeling from the shots and pains at injection sites, but i think even this will go away.

inject the prop with the tren in one syringue, mix the fluid, to spare yourself the extra shots,this could help.

Yep, been doing that from day 1. Instead of trying to get it over with as fast as possible,  I've slowed down a bit on the injection, and that seems to have helped a bit. The injection site pain is the least of my worries anyway. Also haven't felt feverish since those first few days, I suppose it was just my body getting used to the hormones.

get plenty off sleep,

That's always the rub with me. I have nights when I go six hours or so solid before having to pee, but being an older dude, I also have nights when I'm up every couple of hours having to go. Since I've dropped the Benadryl, I've lost that foggy, exhausted feeling I had so I guess the Benadryl might have been the cause. Had a great workout today with a good amount of energy. 

is your diet in order?

Yes, been going high protein and low carb mon-sat, with a carb day (good, complex carbs on Sunday). Been drinking about 24oz of liquid egg whites daily, along with things like lean ground turkey, tilapia, tuna, salmon, and a small amount of cheese. What carbs I do take in during the week are from spinach , broccoli, and almonds.

you should be already plenty stronger in the second week if the 2 factors above are given.

weird results for week one, but carry on

Got one extra rep on my heavy sets today, and I'm fine with baby steps. 

Btw, thanks for your input and your pics look great.

[Frank White]

Quick update after four weeks...

Physique wise, everything is going well. I've been continuing to drop bf while maintaining or in several lifts, increasing strength. I have partial, permanent nerve damage in my left arm from a car accident in 2000 (one of the reasons I stopped juicing years ago) that will always hinder my strength on presses, so as long as i maintain where I'm at with those, I'm happy. I'll probably go one more week with the EC stack, then switch to clen/t3 and see how I handle it.

As far as sides go, aside from the occasional bout of insomnia and sweating a lot, I've had none since the first week! I have to say, after reading some horror stories, I was concerned about what the tren would do to my mood, especially since I've been dealing with some stress, but holy shit, I haven't felt this good in 15 years! I've been in nothing but a great mood everyday, and my libido, in the shitter the last few years,  is now through the roof.  The wife has been beating me off with a baseball bat.   Seriously, this has been life changing stuff for me. It's got to be the much needed test into my 50 year old ass, right? Quite frankly, I'm pissed at myself for waiting this long to go back on.  

So now I'm taking a harder look at what rph159 suggested about running a low dose of test only when I'm done with this cycle. I have to believe it's the test that's giving me this overall sense of well being and Id like to keep it.   Any more thoughts on that?

[RRKore]

Thoughts?  YES.  Blast and cruise from this point on...

[randy841]

Quick update after four weeks...

Physique wise, everything is going well. I've been continuing to drop bf while maintaining or in several lifts, increasing strength. I have partial, permanent nerve damage in my left arm from a car accident in 2000 (one of the reasons I stopped juicing years ago) that will always hinder my strength on presses, so as long as i maintain where I'm at with those, I'm happy. I'll probably go one more week with the EC stack, then switch to clen/t3 and see how I handle it.

As far as sides go, aside from the occasional bout of insomnia and sweating a lot, I've had none since the first week! I have to say, after reading some horror stories, I was concerned about what the tren would do to my mood, especially since I've been dealing with some stress, but holy shit, I haven't felt this good in 15 years! I've been in nothing but a great mood everyday, and my libido, in the shitter the last few years,  is now through the roof.  The wife has been beating me off with a baseball bat.   Seriously, this has been life changing stuff for me. It's got to be the much needed test into my 50 year old ass, right? Quite frankly, I'm pissed at myself for waiting this long to go back on.  

So now I'm taking a harder look at what rph159 suggested about running a low dose of test only when I'm done with this cycle. I have to believe it's the test that's giving me this overall sense of well being and Id like to keep it.   Any more thoughts on that?

Not sure if the nerve problems would get worse in 20 years (for me) as one gets towards 50 or is generally more debilitating towards older individuals incapacitated in some form or manner by motor vehicle accidents. However, the nerve damage really holds back the muscle and strength building processes as you note, unless assisted by Testosterone i found - to a certain degree. I had right side facial nerve damage (no feeling in right side of face for years) and right arm (i.e. muscle contraction -ongoing). I found testoviron really brought back the sensitivity (more than any other AAS), and being able to contract the muscle(s) fully. When off cycle, the contraction is 50/50 again. Likely the extra blood volume assists in the nerve sensitization process(es). Anyways there's more to it, we'll leave that to another day.

Your "overall sense of well being" is likely test n' tren. I am usually sky high on that combo. And i've never done a recreational drug in my life, but i damn well sure feel the high on that combo -- like you own the world.