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Author Topic: diet, fat-loss while "on"  (Read 7012 times)
dj181
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« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2012, 02:42:46 PM »

I understand what you are saying. You want to be in shape, but you don't want to kill yourself getting/staying there. So if i was you, here's what i'd do: eat a normal breakfast then train few hours after that, eat something light and nutritious for PWO and then have something like steak and vegetables for dinner. That's still low calorie, highly nutritious, more or less how "normal" people eat and it's easy to follow. I bet you'll feel good too.

just my 2 cents.

thanks man, and that's basically pretty much what i'm gonna do now, except i'll eat a light breakfast and a light dinner, and keep my most caloric dense meal for my post workout meal (daily total cals will now be around 1500-1800)

so now i'm done with the starvation 800 cal mode, and i'll stick with this 3 square meals protocol

also, i'm gonna do this without any aerobic training, so we will see...

BTW, it's best to keep the superdrol dose to pre-workout, 30-60 minutes before the training session, right?
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« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2012, 03:27:08 PM »

BTW, it's best to keep the superdrol dose to pre-workout, 30-60 minutes before the training session, right?

Yes, that will do fine.
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« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2012, 09:53:04 PM »

starve yourself for as long as you can tolerate it, train when your not sore anymore and focus on squeezing the muscle, eat some protein a couple times a day. keep calories as low as possible, do as much cardio as you can tolerate, when the hunger starts to drive you crazy go ahead and eat whatever your craving and untill you get so full you get sick of eating from stomach discomfort then proceed back to the starvation and cardio and training. honestly its this simple, ESPECIALLY on gear. you wont lose muscle, you dont have to "eat to lose" , you dont need to eat every few hours, you dont need to eat calories every day, just a bit of protein to ward off muscle loss and a big calorie defecit for extended periods of time. your metabolism wont slow down as long as you eat that meal of whatever your craving at a couple times a week. every few days should be fine. but listen to your muscles and how your feeling.

Probably the worst advice I have ever read on dieting.
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tbombz
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« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2012, 10:30:17 PM »

thatll work until 10% or so, after that, youll have to get more strict.
true enough for most people, but most people have never been a legit 10% in their life, and would do well to forget about all the stuff competitive bodybuilders talk about during contest prep and just "EAT LESS, MOVE MORE"!!!!!!
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dj181
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« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2012, 02:59:35 AM »

Probably the worst advice I have ever read on dieting.

not just on "dieting" but on training as well

sorry bombz, but just calling it like i see it
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dj181
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« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2012, 03:17:44 AM »

true enough for most people, but most people have never been a legit 10% in their life, and would do well to forget about all the stuff competitive bodybuilders talk about during contest prep and just "EAT LESS, MOVE MORE"!!!!!!

allright dude, IMO it is as "easy" as just eating less, but....

training is VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT

if you eat less and train like a dumbass, or don't train at all, then you will get leaner, but you will also lose muscle as well, and you won't look impressive

but.... if you eat less and train "right" meaning effectively making steady PROGRESS (this the the key dude PROGRESS) you will look outstanding, or at least much better than if you don't train at all or train like a dumbass

case in point, all of my training loads have increased since starting the sdrol, but my squat and row training loads have increased the most, and guess what...

my quads and lats have made the greatest size increases, and these size increases are the DIRECT RESULT of these greater increased training loads

what's the best training method to achieve progressive overload? IMO it's some kinda form of HIT, but not extreme HIT ie. Mentzer's Consolidation Routine, and not Max-OT either (another form of HIT) as it is a bit too much IMO

right now, i'm doing 3 or 4 failure sets per bodypart and it's working quite well, but again, this is me and my own honest personal experience

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« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2012, 09:37:24 AM »

allright dude, IMO it is as "easy" as just eating less, but....

training is VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT

if you eat less and train like a dumbass, or don't train at all, then you will get leaner, but you will also lose muscle as well, and you won't look impressive

but.... if you eat less and train "right" meaning effectively making steady PROGRESS (this the the key dude PROGRESS) you will look outstanding, or at least much better than if you don't train at all or train like a dumbass

case in point, all of my training loads have increased since starting the sdrol, but my squat and row training loads have increased the most, and guess what...

my quads and lats have made the greatest size increases, and these size increases are the DIRECT RESULT of these greater increased training loads

what's the best training method to achieve progressive overload? IMO it's some kinda form of HIT, but not extreme HIT ie. Mentzer's Consolidation Routine, and not Max-OT either (another form of HIT) as it is a bit too much IMO

right now, i'm doing 3 or 4 failure sets per bodypart and it's working quite well, but again, this is me and my own honest personal experience


Agreed with DJ. The key is first genes or there would be 100 Mr O's, HIT is the best most people are gym rats thats why they go everyday and just fuck around. People only have a limited recovery ability so as you get stronger you need to train less cause your recovery ability never increases. Woody Allen would never win the O even if he trained 7 days a week and took ever roid in the book.
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« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2012, 07:49:21 PM »

my advice about training was spot on, i wasnt giving a seminar on the topic so i left it a bit vague and certain interpretations may ot have gotten the intended point but squeexing the muscle and staying out the gym untill your no longer sore is a good basic guideling.. people ahev differeng ideas on the subject.. however.. to be quite blunt,  and i dont mean to hate to you dj, but i looked better than you when i was 17, natural, and had only been training for 2 years.. youve been training for decades and no one would even know you lift dude..    as a natural, i think your training is all fucked up.. all the best naturals i know train their fucking assess off.. all the best looking professional atheletes.. my self when i was just starting out and still natural.. the harder i worked, the longer i stayed in the gym, the more sets i went to failure, the more times i went past failure, the better results i got..   now days since ive pushed passed the natural platue my muscles do respond much better to stimulation as opposed to annihilation but i really think this kind of training is only suitable for people who have broken past the natural potential of the human body.. and for all those who are truly natural pure hard work is key..   kind of unrelated to the subject at hand.. just wanted to give you a bit of advice because youve been on this board for years now and despite all your talk of progress i dont think weve ever seen a picture of you where you look as muscular as michael phelps does..  Grin     as for training/dieting while juiced.. its  different story.. junk can be eaten.. the muscles should be made love to, never rough fucked.. supremely large calorie defecits can be tolerated without muscle losss... so can excessive amounts of cardio..  naturals need to eat around maintenance, healthy foods mainly, keep cardio sessions brief in duration, and train the fucking hell out of the muscles..

just my opinion..
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« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2012, 07:54:44 PM »

starve yourself for as long as you can tolerate it, train when your not sore anymore and focus on squeezing the muscle, eat some protein a couple times a day. keep calories as low as possible, do as much cardio as you can tolerate, when the hunger starts to drive you crazy go ahead and eat whatever your craving and untill you get so full you get sick of eating from stomach discomfort then proceed back to the starvation and cardio and training. honestly its this simple, ESPECIALLY on gear. you wont lose muscle, you dont have to "eat to lose" , you dont need to eat every few hours, you dont need to eat calories every day, just a bit of protein to ward off muscle loss and a big calorie defecit for extended periods of time. your metabolism wont slow down as long as you eat that meal of whatever your craving at a couple times a week. every few days should be fine. but listen to your muscles and how your feeling.
This is the worst advice I have ever heard in my life
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tbombz
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« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2012, 08:00:58 PM »

i have lost more total poundage than anyone on this forum .. that counts for something.. and i have never lost muscle on any diet i have ever done.. that also counts for something.. you guys can continue losing weight at a snails pace because your stuffing your face everyday thinking you have to do so to maintain muscle..  thats your choice... but take this nugget inside and digest it.. the goal when losing fat is to burn off stored energy.. not to feed your body energy from outside itself.. and as long as there is energy coming from outside.. its never going to burn the stuff stored inside..   now when your 8% bodyfat and trying to maintain muscle while getting down to 5% bodyfat.. that becomes a different story alltogether.. your body still isnt going to burn stored energy while it has energy coming from outside itself.. but your only going to be able to get away with a small calorie defecit or else your bodies going to react violently and shed muscle out of pure evolutionary suvival instinct.. but thats a totally different ballgame that what 99% of us are trying to accomplish
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« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2012, 08:05:06 PM »

Guys WTF is going on here, shit.

Listen cut the fucken calorie BS and all this mumbo jumbo, look it's this simple, cut some carbs out, if you hit a plateau such as 10% then cut more carbs out, if you hit another plateau say 8% then cut more carbs out.

Why is everyone complicating anything here. Now if you keep hitting plateaus then cut more carbs, if all your carbs are completely out then you will never hit another plateau period. You will simply lose fat until there is no fat left to lose.

I REPEAT WHEN THERE IS NO CARBS LEFT IN A DIET THERE WILL BE NO PLATEAU, YOU WILL LOSE TILL THERE IS NOTHING LEFT TO LOSE, MY FUCKEN WORD ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH THIS DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

There is no secrets here people.
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tbombz
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« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2012, 08:08:56 PM »

LOL

theres no secrets

but the secret is carbohydrate intake

 Grin  Grin   Grin

what matters is calories in versus calories out.

one can get lean by cutting fats. or by cutting carbs. or by cutting a mixture of the two.

the only secret is burning more than you take in. not carbohydrate intake. lol
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« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2012, 08:12:03 PM »

Sorry Tbombs but losing weight like you have counts for shit, anyone that eats 10 000 calories a day and is 400 lb can lose 100lb in record time eating ice cream and twinkies all day long.

The only thing that counts is people that have thrived to reach single digit body fat level through sheer will and you have not earned that honor yet so excuse me for saying so, but you are not qualified to say that you know what you are talking about.
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Onetimehard
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« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2012, 08:13:43 PM »

LOL

theres no secrets

but the secret is carbohydrate intake

 Grin  Grin   Grin

what matters is calories in versus calories out.

one can get lean by cutting fats. or by cutting carbs. or by cutting a mixture of the two.

the only secret is burning more than you take in. not carbohydrate intake. lol
Wrong, calories in means shit bro, I can eat 5lb of chicken breast a day and not gain an once of fat period, I increase calories sometimes when I diet and still come out with striated glutes.
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Onetimehard
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« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2012, 08:18:25 PM »

Listen people, ignore everything else and just focus on carbs, that's it, trust me on no carbs your fat will get used no matter what and your protein will get used and what doesn't get used will be process through the other end in the form of dierhia. Protein will not convert to fat, I don't care what a stupid text book says or a damn doctor protein will not convert to fat, I eat literally unlimited amounts of protein and lose 40lb of fat in 10 -12 weeks, I repeat UNLIMITED AMOUNTS OF PROTEIN EVERY DAY.
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dj181
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« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2012, 05:11:44 AM »

allright bombz, do i look like i even lift here?

yeah, i know that i'm not a massive guy there, but there's 3 things here....

1. i have SMALL FRAME 6 inch wrists, yes 6 fucking inches, around the biggest and thickest part

2. i was lifetime natty here

3. no offense fellas, but i don't want to be huge, in these pics i weigh a buck 55 my MAX desired wt is a buck 75-80 NO MORE (don't get offended dudes, i just like the slimmer athletic look) and yeah, i know that some will say a buck 75 baahahaha! but the funny thing is, a buck 75 @ sub-6% is pretty damn good, i just think that many dudes don't really understand what it is to be sitting @ sub-6, and they get all caught up in numbers

and a few more things i haven't been training for decades, i didn't train hardly at all for nearly 10 whole years

also, when i looked like how i looked in these photos i had MANY peeps come up and ask me, "how can i look like you?" all the way from young black kids to middle-aged white guys (no homo) Grin also, when i would go out for a run i had females very often scream shit at me from their cars, and no they weren't screaming "get away from me you ugly and toady asshole" LOL in fact, a few times i happened to be running with my girlfriend at the time, and she told me "put your shirt back on" coz she was so pissed off about the females gawking at me from their cars LOL






* IMG_6795_b.jpg (76.41 KB, 350x317 - viewed 330 times.)

* Douglas001_b.jpg (140.87 KB, 598x929 - viewed 326 times.)
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dj181
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« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2012, 09:44:10 AM »

man, brother,lol, my legs arent exactly monstrous, but damn, did you improve the legs since these pics?

you should.

when you say legs, do you mean quads or calves? Grin

my quads have improved due to the increased training loads i'm now using on them via squats, SLD's (which actually seemed to improve my lats more than anything else) and lunges

but my calves? well, that's just better left unsaid Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

on a side note.....  i'd much rather watch paint dry than train calves LOL
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tbombz
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« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2012, 12:31:56 PM »

Wrong, calories in means shit bro, I can eat 5lb of chicken breast a day and not gain an once of fat period, I increase calories sometimes when I diet and still come out with striated glutes.
you probably wont gain fat eating nothing but protein but you sure as hell can inhibit fat loss by eating excessive amounts of it.


i strongly encourage everyone who is not already sub 10% with fully defined abdominals to stop worrying about all the bullshit and just starve yourself and work your ass off. a few small meals of protein and vegetables per day. and a cheat meal whenever you need it, but hold off for as long as possible before doing so. thats the best way to get rid of the fat. so long as you have visible fat stores on your body, your body will burn through them without hesitation and will not go for muscle mass as long as your eating just a bit of protein for hormonal/metabolic support.   its only once you get lean that you have to take baby steps and keep the calorie defecit small and burn off the fat slowly to avoid muscle loss. 
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« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2012, 01:36:50 PM »

^^^^ Fair enough, but let me explain something here; from 8% to 4% takes me a month only so you talking about losing to much muscle, well how much muscle can someone lose in 4 weeks? 5-8lb max, so it is worth the trade of, personally I lose maybe 2-3 lb in my entire dieting process, but I diet strict.

Look it isn't necessary to starve yourself, you can get shredded eating unlimited amounts of protein without carbs, this is a simple as it gets

Anyone who takes my advice here right now will get absolutely striated from top to bottom, simply do this;.....


UNLIMITED PROTEIN,
 NO CARBS,
 FAT INTAKE NO MORE THE 2.5 CALORIES WORTH PER LB.

This will get anyone to contest condition in record time, that simple.
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« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2012, 02:09:52 PM »

yeah, the above is exactly how it is.

its simple, but not easy.


and tbombs new post isnt even near to the previous one of his.

ofc eating only protein and vegs will get you shredded, even with a weekly cheat meal.but keep cheat meal at one weekly, not "whenever you feel like".on diet you always feel like eating sweets and cakes and fries.
it`s the hardest thing in the world, dieting like this sucks but hey, it`s only for the strong minded.

Yes cheat meal is once a week at most, personally I go 9-10 days, usually when I can`t take it anymore, but cheat meals are dangerous, they can trigger you into eating every thing in sight, so anyone having a cheat meal make sure you put up your guard is up big time.
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« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2012, 12:13:53 AM »

Agreed with DJ. The key is first genes or there would be 100 Mr O's, HIT is the best most people are gym rats thats why they go everyday and just fuck around. People only have a limited recovery ability so as you get stronger you need to train less cause your recovery ability never increases. Woody Allen would never win the O even if he trained 7 days a week and took ever roid in the book.

HIT works for some. Not everyone. And you cant say its the best, look at Arnold, his training style was far from HIT...trained 6 days a week sometimes 2x a day and his volume was huge. Results speaks for themselves.
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« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2012, 12:21:34 AM »

yes, i mean the quads and the calves.

dont be stupid, train the calves ,man.

look, mine, it was hard to get them to grow, but i got them to acceptable level now.

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc490/hadabusa/nilon290.jpg

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc490/hadabusa/IMG_1491.jpg

dont take offense man,i like you, but how can you even discuss diets and whatd be best when you dont even train your full body?

bigger legs will make you look more symetrical, and the stress from training them will make the upper body grow some more for free.and with  couple pounds of lean meat on your legs/ass, your metabolism will be faster, meaning,you get lean easier or you can get away with eating shit food more often.

comeon, if you only train half your body, leaving out the biggest muscles, theres no point in talking about diet, youre not going anywhere near full potential,mate.
dont be lazy,dont waste your time doing half assed things.do it right.

Oh my fuck those calf veins are sick! Didnt kno what the heck they were at first cuz I thought tyey were too big to be veins. Mirin
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dj181
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« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2012, 12:40:29 AM »

HIT works for some. Not everyone. And you cant say its the best, look at Arnold, his training style was far from HIT...trained 6 days a week sometimes 2x a day and his volume was huge. Results speaks for themselves.

that true about arnold and volume training, but he built the majority of his size from a basic routine of ver heavy compound lifts ie. Reg Park style training 5*5 of squats, deads, rows, curls, benches, militaries

this 6 days a week twice a day training was basically a maintanice and refinement routine, as he got his massive size from heavy PROGRESSIVE training
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dj181
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« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2012, 12:46:46 AM »

and an honest question here for you fellas...

have you ever seen anyone actually get bigger muscles without increasing their training loads?

i sure as hell haven't

and if you actually can increase the size of muscles without increasing your training loads then please tell me how to do it, coz i'd like to know
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« Reply #49 on: August 03, 2012, 08:16:53 AM »

that true about arnold and volume training, but he built the majority of his size from a basic routine of ver heavy compound lifts ie. Reg Park style training 5*5 of squats, deads, rows, curls, benches, militaries

this 6 days a week twice a day training was basically a maintanice and refinement routine, as he got his massive size from heavy PROGRESSIVE training

They all say that and I think its bullshit. Why would arnold go from something like HIT that he supposedly did that "built his base and size" and then change over to a "maintenance and refining" routine?

It doesnt make sense. why would u change something that supposedly works. Amd to clear things up, he did not train hit style at any point in his life. Ppl are saying he did just bc he powerlifted for a while so they assume he had to do hit.

Arnold repeatedly talks of training til he felt almost dead sets after set when he was younger and up and coming. Source: education of a bodybuilder, multiple biography books
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