Author Topic: and then.....  (Read 3477 times)

OzmO

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Straw Man

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2012, 10:10:41 AM »
how many of those jobs by Reagan and other POTUS's were in Government ?

Also, are we comparing total terms of other POTUS's to Obama's ~ 3 years in office

not saying that Obama's record is good but let's not leave out the details - first he had to stop the hemoraging of jobs

btw - Carter did 10 million in 4 years - that's probably the best record of all


Soul Crusher

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2012, 10:14:44 AM »
how many of those jobs by Reagan and other POTUS's were in Government ?

Also, are we comparing total terms of other POTUS's to Obama's ~ 3 years in office

not saying that Obama's record is good but let's not leave out the details - first he had to stop the hemoraging of jobs

btw - Carter did 10 million in 4 years - that's probably the best record of all



Straw Man

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2012, 10:21:58 AM »


in the last 3 recessions the POTUS has been able to grow government jobs as a way to not only shore up the jobs created figure but also to stimulate the private sector job growth (i.e. more goverenment employees = more dollars to spend in the private sector = more demand = stimulation of job growth in the private sector)

the only POTUS who hasn't done this is Obama

I also can't think of any POTUS who came into office with a collapse of the global credit markets or anything similar to what Obama faces when he got in office

Soul Crusher

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2012, 10:24:38 AM »
in the last 3 recessions the POTUS has been able to grow government jobs as a way to not only shore up the jobs created figure but also to stimulate the private sector job growth (i.e. more goverenment employees = more dollars to spend in the private sector = more demand = stimulation of job growth in the private sector)

the only POTUS who hasn't done this is Obama

I also can't think of any POTUS who came into office with a collapse of the global credit markets or anything similar to what Obama faces when he got in office

Straw Man

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2012, 10:30:35 AM »


is this your response to the fact that the last three POTUS's who faced a recession (and none faced anything like Obama) were able to grow the government payroll as a means to get out of recession

btw - when Reagan got in office it was after Jimmy Carter had created 10 million jobs in 4 years

when Obama got to office we were literally hemoraging jobs and the entire global credit market and economy was melting down

just a slight bit of diffference there but I know even that simple level of nuance is probably well beyond your ability to understand or even acknowledge

howardroark

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 10:35:45 AM »
in the last 3 recessions the POTUS has been able to grow government jobs as a way to not only shore up the jobs created figure but also to stimulate the private sector job growth (i.e. more goverenment employees = more dollars to spend in the private sector = more demand = stimulation of job growth in the private sector)

the only POTUS who hasn't done this is Obama

I also can't think of any POTUS who came into office with a collapse of the global credit markets or anything similar to what Obama faces when he got in office

According to the OPM, the federal government has added jobs every year that Obama has been in office: http://www.opm.gov/feddata/historicaltables/totalgovernmentsince1962.asp

Now I understand that states, and especially local governments, have probably been hit hard by lower property values driving their property tax revenues down, but can you really blame that for the job losses? That would represent just a fraction of the jobs lost during the recession.

If your side of the story is true, the best course of action for the federal government would be to cut spending on wasteful programs like unemployment benefits and cut taxes. That would give more leeway for state and local governments to tax and borrow more OR it would be expansionary for the private sector.

howardroark

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 10:38:33 AM »
Not to mention that your understanding of economics is awful. Government jobs shore up the private sector? Pleeeaaaase.  ::)

Where do you think the government gets its money if not the private sector?

Soul Crusher

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2012, 10:39:44 AM »
Not to mention that your understanding of economics is awful. Government jobs shore up the private sector? Pleeeaaaase.  ::)

Where do you think the government gets its money if not the private sector?

Straw is a hard left Krugmanite. 

Straw Man

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2012, 10:48:05 AM »
According to the OPM, the federal government has added jobs every year that Obama has been in office: http://www.opm.gov/feddata/historicaltables/totalgovernmentsince1962.asp

Now I understand that states, and especially local governments, have probably been hit hard by lower property values driving their property tax revenues down, but can you really blame that for the job losses? That would represent just a fraction of the jobs lost during the recession.

If your side of the story is true, the best course of action for the federal government would be to cut spending on wasteful programs like unemployment benefits and cut taxes. That would give more leeway for state and local governments to tax and borrow more OR it would be expansionary for the private sector.

Howie  - you're disqualified from getting any of my time until I can determine if you actually understand how something as simple as a Health Savings account works.   If you can't understand this then why would I waste my time with you on more complicated topics

You can go to this thread and respond or I'll repeat the question here and you can respond

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=432980.50

Simple test - if I put 3000 into my HSA account in a given year and then purchase either  zero, 100, or 1000 dollars of aspirin with non-HSA dollars does my tax liablity for that year change in any way due to that purchase

I'll even give you the answer

The answer is NO it does not change because my tax saving is determined by the dollars deposited into the HSA and any purchase of aspirin using non-HSA dollars can never change that (again - sales tax is irreleven because even items paid for with HSA dollars could be subject to sales tax depending on the item being purchased)

What is your answer ?

howardroark

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2012, 11:17:58 AM »
Distractions - you can't talk about the issues can you? Learning from your Messiah, Barack Hussein Obama?

But okay dude, allow me to explain this to you with simple math, since you're apparently too dense to use your own mind:

Annual Income $50,000
Addition to HSA $5,000
Medical Expenses $5,000
Non-Medical Spending $45,000

Now say that the government decides to stop allowing you to use your HSA for all medical expenses; now you can only use your HSA for half of your medical expenses. Your point is that your tax bill won't change if you'll continue putting $5,000 into your HSA, which is true. But now you have $2,500 in additional medical expenses that are not tax deductible and thus will have to come out of your regular $45,000 income. That means that in order to keep your tax bill the same, you'll have to spend less on other things OR save less (outside of your HSA) in order to be able to afford that $2,500 in non-deductible medical expenses. So either way the tax change takes a bite out of your budget.

Annual Income $50,000
Addition to HSA $5,000
HSA Medical Expenses $2,500
Non-HSA Medical Expenses $2,500
Non-Medical Spending $42,500

Straw Man

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2012, 11:33:28 AM »
Distractions - you can't talk about the issues can you? Learning from your Messiah, Barack Hussein Obama?

But okay dude, allow me to explain this to you with simple math, since you're apparently too dense to use your own mind:

Annual Income $50,000
Addition to HSA $5,000
Medical Expenses $5,000
Non-Medical Spending $45,000

Now say that the government decides to stop allowing you to use your HSA for all medical expenses; now you can only use your HSA for half of your medical expenses. Your point is that your tax bill won't change if you'll continue putting $5,000 into your HSA, which is true. But now you have $2,500 in additional medical expenses that are not tax deductible and thus will have to come out of your regular $45,000 income. That means that in order to keep your tax bill the same, you'll have to spend less on other things OR save less (outside of your HSA) in order to be able to afford that $2,500 in non-deductible medical expenses. So either way the tax change takes a bite out of your budget.

Annual Income $50,000
Addition to HSA $5,000
HSA Medical Expenses $2,500
Non-HSA Medical Expenses $2,500
Non-Medical Spending $42,500

why would I waste time with you when you lack the ability to understand even VERY basic stuff

you're the same guy who claimed to prepare your own tax returns yet were unaware of the box at the top of page 1 of the 1040 where you can check a box to put $3 toward the funds for financing a presidential compaign.   You  blamed Turbotax for your lack of knowledge and then got pissed off because you thought it came out of your refund even though the box clearly states that your choice does not effect your refund or your tax liability.   That was my first clue that you really didn't have even a basic knowledge normal tax stuff.

I'm guessing you're a 15 old who has never filed a tax return.  Either that or you're incredibly careless or back to my first assumption that you really just can't understand even the most basic stuff about taxes


Soul Crusher

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2012, 11:38:32 AM »
why would I waste time with you when you lack the ability to understand even VERY basic stuff

you're the same guy who claimed to prepare your own tax returns yet were unaware of the box at the top of page 1 of the 1040 where you can check a box to put $3 toward the funds for financing a presidential compaign.   You  blamed Turbotax for your lack of knowledge and then got pissed off because you thought it came out of your refund even though the box clearly states that your choice does not effect your refund or your tax liability.   That was my first clue that you really didn't have even a basic knowledge normal tax stuff.

I'm guessing you're a 15 old who has never filed a tax return.  Either that or you're incredibly careless or back to my first assumption that you really just can't understand even the most basic stuff about taxes



Straw Man

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2012, 11:50:19 AM »


you constantly repost the same charts
do you even know how labor participation is calculated

did you notice it stared going to down as soon at Bush got in  office and really fell off a cliff in 2008 (the last year of the Bush administration in case you had forgotten)

How to you stop a free fall that has been building in momemtum for 8 years and more importantly what does this have to do with Howie inability to understand even the most basic things about taxes

Soul Crusher

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2012, 11:51:45 AM »
you constantly repost the same charts
do you even know how labor participation is calculated

did you notice it stared going to down as soon at Bush got in  office and really fell off a cliff in 2008 (the last year of the Bush administration in case you had forgotten)

How to you stop a free fall that has been building in momemtum for 8 years and more importantly what does this have to do with Howie inability to understand even the most basic things about taxes


LOL - blame bush! 

Kazan

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2012, 11:54:55 AM »

LOL - blame bush! 

Obama wanted to be the man, he won, so he needs to act like the man and quit pointing fingers. He was elected to congress, unless he wasn't doing his job, he knew what the situation was. He still choose to run for POTUS, excuses are like assholes, everybody has one
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Straw Man

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2012, 11:55:33 AM »

LOL - blame bush! 

you're the one who posted this chart and it what I've said is clearly seen on the chart


Dos Equis

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2012, 11:57:49 AM »

Soul Crusher

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2012, 12:03:39 PM »
you're the one who posted this chart and it what I've said is clearly seen on the chart



And it totally fell off the cliff once Ratlosi and Dingy Harry took over and once Obamugabe got elected its never ceased.  

Bush may have made the mess, but obama has no plans or answers himself and can't work with even his own party to get anything productive done.  


Straw Man

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2012, 12:06:26 PM »
And it totally fell off the cliff once Ratlosi and Dingy Harry took over and once Obamugabe got elected its never ceased.  

Bush may have made the mess, but obama has no plans or answers himself and can't work with even his own party to get anything productive done.  

of course because 8 years of free fall with increasing momentum could have been stopped and reversed on a dime, especially considering how much priority the Repubs gave to helping improve the job market by cooperating with the Obama administration

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2012, 12:33:55 PM »
of course because 8 years of free fall with increasing momentum could have been stopped and reversed on a dime, especially considering how much priority the Repubs gave to helping improve the job market by cooperating with the Obama administration

you make a great point here.   33, your response?

howardroark

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012, 12:34:23 PM »
Straw Man - since you're turning it into a personal thing: care to explain this away? Or do you simply use distractions because you couldn't find your ass with flashing pointers showing you the way?

But okay dude, allow me to explain this to you with simple math, since you're apparently too dense to use your own mind:

Annual Income $50,000
Addition to HSA $5,000
Medical Expenses $5,000
Non-Medical Spending $45,000

Now say that the government decides to stop allowing you to use your HSA for all medical expenses; now you can only use your HSA for half of your medical expenses. Your point is that your tax bill won't change if you'll continue putting $5,000 into your HSA, which is true. But now you have $2,500 in additional medical expenses that are not tax deductible and thus will have to come out of your regular $45,000 income. That means that in order to keep your tax bill the same, you'll have to spend less on other things OR save less (outside of your HSA) in order to be able to afford that $2,500 in non-deductible medical expenses. So either way the tax change takes a bite out of your budget.

Annual Income $50,000
Addition to HSA $5,000
HSA Medical Expenses $2,500
Non-HSA Medical Expenses $2,500
Non-Medical Spending $42,500

howardroark

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2012, 12:35:18 PM »
of course because 8 years of free fall with increasing momentum could have been stopped and reversed on a dime, especially considering how much priority the Repubs gave to helping improve the job market by cooperating with the Obama administration

See: Depression of 1920-21.

The economy does turn on a dime if given the proper stimulus: freedom.

Straw Man

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2012, 02:27:59 PM »
See: Depression of 1920-21.

The economy does turn on a dime if given the proper stimulus: freedom.

I see so we just need some more freedom like they did back then

after you answer my question regarding the health savings account maybe you tell us what "freedom" you are talking about

tonymctones

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Re: and then.....
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2012, 04:47:44 PM »
so dubya created more jobs then obama then?

hmmmm.......