Henry Waxman (D - Rat Face) lays out the progressive ideology in full view

[Fury]

"Congressman Henry Waxman (D-Calif) gives his reaction to Mitt Romney’s running mate choice of Rep. Paul Ryan. Congressman Waxman says, Rep. Ryan is “a true believer” who believes the market and people can take care of themselves. Rep. Waxman says that he “is not happy” with the prospect the Rep. Ryan has the potential to be President. He says that under Mitt Romney and Rep. Ryan, “they could adopt changes that would be so radical that people would be shocked at how different the country is."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/08/13/waxman_ryan_thinks_the_market_and_people_can_take_care_of_themselves.html


Oh no, the HORROR. People taking care of themselves?

Translation: All people are stupid and we in government are smarter than you.



C*nt.

[Kazan]

Wow

[Shockwave]

"Congressman Henry Waxman (D-Calif) gives his reaction to Mitt Romney’s running mate choice of Rep. Paul Ryan. Congressman Waxman says, Rep. Ryan is “a true believer” who believes the market and people can take care of themselves. Rep. Waxman says that he “is not happy” with the prospect the Rep. Ryan has the potential to be President. He says that under Mitt Romney and Rep. Ryan, “they could adopt changes that would be so radical that people would be shocked at how different the country is."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/08/13/waxman_ryan_thinks_the_market_and_people_can_take_care_of_themselves.html


Oh no, the HORROR. People taking care of themselves?

Translation: All people are stupid and we in government are smarter than you.



C*nt.

Im seriously beginning to believe that the fundamental flaw today is that many people have truly come to believe that they cannot take care of themselves without the Governments help.

[Fury]

Im seriously beginning to believe that the fundamental flaw today is that many people have truly come to believe that they cannot take care of themselves without the Governments help.

Straw Man can't get out of bed without the government's help. He's a child who drinks milk while real men drink beer.

[Soul Crusher]

There it is.     Communists to the core. 

"Congressman Henry Waxman (D-Calif) gives his reaction to Mitt Romney’s running mate choice of Rep. Paul Ryan. Congressman Waxman says, Rep. Ryan is “a true believer” who believes the market and people can take care of themselves. Rep. Waxman says that he “is not happy” with the prospect the Rep. Ryan has the potential to be President. He says that under Mitt Romney and Rep. Ryan, “they could adopt changes that would be so radical that people would be shocked at how different the country is."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/08/13/waxman_ryan_thinks_the_market_and_people_can_take_care_of_themselves.html


Oh no, the HORROR. People taking care of themselves?

Translation: All people are stupid and we in government are smarter than you.



C*nt.

[tonymctones]

Im seriously beginning to believe that the fundamental flaw today is that many people have truly come to believe that they cannot take care of themselves without the Governments help.

apparently our rights stem from the govt, so if the govt thought ppl shouldnt live past 30 they would have all the right in the world to kill us.

that is according to straw and 240...

[240 is Back]

apparently our rights stem from the govt, so if the govt thought ppl shouldnt live past 30 they would have all the right in the world to kill us.

that is according to straw and 240...

Our "rights" are those things we are allowed/not allowed to do, based upon the laws of the lands in which we live.

If you live in iceland, you can walk around naked shooting off guns all day and killing any animal you find.  Try that shit in Times square.

Your rights - the things you are allowed to do - aren't given to you by a guy who lives in the clouds.  They're assigned and defined by elected officials.

You dont have to accept it, but its the truth.

[Shockwave]

Our "rights" are those things we are allowed/not allowed to do, based upon the laws of the lands in which we live.

If you live in iceland, you can walk around naked shooting off guns all day and killing any animal you find.  Try that shit in Times square.

Your rights - the things you are allowed to do - aren't given to you by a guy who lives in the clouds.  They're assigned and defined by elected officials.

You dont have to accept it, but its the truth.

Bull fucking shit.
Inalienable human rights transcend government. They are rights that every person can believe in, crossing governments the world over. They are the reason that people rise up against their oppressors.

[tonymctones]

Bull fucking shit.
Inalienable human rights transcend government. They are rights that every person can believe in, crossing governments the world over. They are the reason that people rise up against their oppressors.

nope given to us by govt, they are the be all end all and have the power to kill us at will without provacation.

just ask 240 and strawman.

[Fury]

Bull fucking shit.
Inalienable human rights transcend government. They are rights that every person can believe in, crossing governments the world over. They are the reason that people rise up against their oppressors.

240 supports Ron Paul....or something.  

[tonymctones]

Our "rights" are those things we are allowed/not allowed to do, based upon the laws of the lands in which we live.

If you live in iceland, you can walk around naked shooting off guns all day and killing any animal you find.  Try that shit in Times square.

Your rights - the things you are allowed to do - aren't given to you by a guy who lives in the clouds.  They're assigned and defined by elected officials.

You dont have to accept it, but its the truth.

so you believe that govt has the right to euthanize its constituents at will then?

after all the power all resides in what the govt deems is a right correct?

[240 is Back]

so you believe that govt has the right to euthanize its constituents at will then?

I believe the govt - when it wants to - has the ABILITY to do this.

I guess I'm seeing "rights" as this CONCEPT you're trying to move from abstract to concrete. 

your 'RIGHTS' are what the govt of your residence gives you.  If you were born in any other country, your definition of what rights are innate would be different.


"Air" is God-given.  Water.  Calories.  You know, the things that are universal.  Rights aren't, sadly.

[Shockwave]

I believe the govt - when it wants to - has the ABILITY to do this.

I guess I'm seeing "rights" as this CONCEPT you're trying to move from abstract to concrete. 

your 'RIGHTS' are what the govt of your residence gives you.  If you were born in any other country, your definition of what rights are innate would be different.


"Air" is God-given.  Water.  Calories.  You know, the things that are universal.  Rights aren't, sadly.

Really? Calories are god given?

Right to the pursuit of happiness is about as universal as it gets. Are you actually saying the Government has the right to deny you the pursuit of happiness? Lots of refugees from oppressive countries disagree with you.

[240 is Back]

Really? Calories are god given?

Right to the pursuit of happiness is about as universal as it gets. Are you actually saying the Government has the right to deny you the pursuit of happiness? Lots of refugees from oppressive countries disagree with you.

a calorie in iran = a calorie in USA.   

"
Right to the pursuit of happiness is about as universal as it gets."

Um, since when?  lol... for the entirety of man's existence (except for the last few thousand years), man was promised no 'guarantee of right to pursue happiness"

That's the silliest phrase.  People can accept their circumstances, or they can move elsewhere.  Or they can take risks and try to change things.


I can't understand grown men arguing about this.  cavemen used to beat each other with rocks over no reason - winner lived.  Law of the land.  I think today's recent humans are sissified.  The entire world for entire history was Darwinism - plain and simple.  until recently.

[Shockwave]

a calorie in iran = a calorie in USA.  

"
Right to the pursuit of happiness is about as universal as it gets."

Um, since when?  lol... for the entirety of man's existence (except for the last few thousand years), man was promised no 'guarantee of right to pursue happiness"

That's the silliest phrase.  People can accept their circumstances, or they can move elsewhere.  Or they can take risks and try to change things.


I can't understand grown men arguing about this.  cavemen used to beat each other with rocks over no reason - winner lived.  Law of the land.  I think today's recent humans are sissified.  The entire world for entire history was Darwinism - plain and simple.  until recently.

None of this has anything to do with the fact that people have a right to pursue their own happiness, and NO government can or should take that from them.

People fight for that all the time, they overthrow governments, they move, they kill their oppressors for that simple right.

Where the hell did you get that other shit from? No government gives someone the "right to pursue happiness", they stand up and take it because its something they believe in.

[240 is Back]

None of this has anything to do with the fact that

According to....

A document you read which was written by men in a position of authority...

The world is Darwinism.  "pursuit of happiness" is vague and clever marketing.  More like "permission to have ambition to work to contribute to greater good".

history of the world vs. Something a bunch of opiated rebels who took this MFer over.  They were brave, badass, and dreamy - but "FACT" that people have something they didn't have for the entirety of humanity sans 3000 years?  Yikes.

[Shockwave]

According to....

A document you read which was written by men in a position of authority...

The world is Darwinism.  "pursuit of happiness" is vague and clever marketing.  More like "permission to have ambition to work to contribute to greater good".

history of the world vs. Something a bunch of opiated rebels who took this MFer over.  They were brave, badass, and dreamy - but "FACT" that people have something they didn't have for the entirety of humanity sans 3000 years?  Yikes.

WTH are you talking about? Are you saying people never fought for their right to be happy?
People have always rebelled when their government became to oppressive and fucked with their rights to pursue happiness. The founding fathers just put it into words.

You think the British Government gave them the "right to pursue happiness"? No, they stood up and fucking took it. And then they put what they fought for into words.

You are making absolutely no sense. Once man started to govern themselves, people have been fighting for certain universal liberties in the face of oppressors. These have transcended time and governments.
People have been fighting for their right to make their own decisions, to live their own lives, to pursue their definition of happiness.

[240 is Back]

WTH are you talking about? Are you saying people never fought for their right to be happy?
People have always rebelled when their government became to oppressive and fucked with their rights to pursue happiness. The founding fathers just put it into words.
You think the British Government gave them the "right to pursue happiness"? No, they stood up and fucking took it. And then they put what they fought for into words.

and they promptly assigned this right to 'pursuit of happiness' to white men who owned land, right?  How do you rationalize that?  They were biased, corrupt men just as we have today.

[Fury]

240 embarrassing himself hard in this thread. This is going off even better than I expected.

Carry on with your beating at the hands of Tony and Shockwave.

[Shockwave]

and they promptly assigned this right to 'pursuit of happiness' to white men who owned land, right?  How do you rationalize that?  They were biased, corrupt men just as we have today.

And then over time it became ALL men in the land, when THOSE men stood up and declared that they had the right to pursue happiness as well as any other man. And then women said, hey, we too have the right to pursue happiness just like any man. And they stood up, and eventually the government let them have it as well. Starting to see a trend here?

You are making absolutely no sense. As soon as man started to govern themselves, people have been fighting for certain universal liberties in the face of oppressors. These rights have transcended time, religion, and governments.
People have been fighting for these ideals for as long as there has been others trying to oppress them.

[240 is Back]

240 embarrassing himself hard in this thread. This is going off even better than I expected.

Carry on with your beating at the hands of Tony and Shockwave.

Honestly, I dont know what we are arguing about.  If you were born and lived in Iran, your "god given" rights woudl be way different.  If you were born 5000 years ago, it'd be cool to "smash your neighbor with a rock and eat his dinner".   We live in a unique time, place and situation - and we feel the need to paint all of humanity history with that brush.  I dont know why.

[Shockwave]

If you were born and lived in Iran, your "god given" rights woudl be way different.  If you were born 5000 years ago, it'd be cool to "smash your neighbor with a rock and eat his dinner".   We live in a unique time, place and situation - and we feel the need to paint all of humanity history with that brush.  I dont know why.

Yes, because you NEVER hear about any Iranian uprising of people pissed off by how they're being oppressed, willing to fight and die for stupid ideas like those "inalienabe human rights" such as  the "right to life, liberty, and the pursuit happiness".

The stupid "5000 years ago" bullshit is ridiculous. Pretty sure as long as there has been government, it hasn't been cool to "smash your neighbor with a rock". (infringing on others rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness)

You're right 240, people have NEVER fought for freedoms (right to life, liberty, and the pursuit happiness) if their government didnt give it to them. Ever.

Give it up dude, as long as people have lived in social groups, these basic ideas have existed and people have fought for them, and its NEVER been the government that has given it to them. They have taken it. By force if necessary.

[240 is Back]

Yes, because you NEVER hear about any Iranian uprising of people pissed off by how they're being oppressed, willing to fight and die for stupid ideas like those "inalienabe human rights" such as  the "right to life, liberty, and the pursuit happiness".

Any uprising is proof of the legitimacy of their cause?  People riot when the Lakers win.  or lose.

They're rioting partially because foreign paarties are feeding chaos because they profit from instability in that region.  And because people are animals that thrive on chaos.  Maybe that's a right.

I guess I just don't konw why only those 3 are innate.  How come being born gay isn't an innate right?

[Shockwave]

Any uprising is proof of the legitimacy of their cause?  People riot when the Lakers win.  or lose.

They're rioting partially because foreign paarties are feeding chaos because they profit from instability in that region.  And because people are animals that thrive on chaos.  Maybe that's a right.

I guess I just don't konw why only those 3 are innate.  How come being born gay isn't an innate right?

Dude..... just those 3? Those 3 pretty much encompass everything including their sexuality.

As for your 1st part... utter idiocy and deflection. Rather than admit that people will fight for these "abstract" ideas, you attack the legitimacy of EVERY uprising Iran has ever had? There have recent uprising where people were pissed off that they were being oppressed by their government. Epic lolz.