Poll

Should the age of elistment for military service be raised?

No, the age should stay at 18
Yes, it should be raised to 21
other: please explain

Author Topic: Poll: Are you for raising the age of enlistment for military service to 21?  (Read 3488 times)

Hugo Chavez

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Note: Nobody can see how you vote.

Reason I posted this poll comes from the last few days.  I've seen several opinions that range from people who would rather see the age of enlistment raised over the age of drinking to saying that 18 year olds are not mature enough to make sexual decisions for themselves.  So this seemed a good poll with those points raised.

tu_holmes

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I read where Tony said this in another thread... The problem is that you are eliminating 3 years of potential recruits. Doesn't seem like much, but I bet it can cause an issue should an actual war break out.


outby43

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no fucking way.  There are too many fuckups that go to the military as it is their only choice in life.  By raising the age you are allowing these dumb asses 3 more years of mistakes before they have an alternative.  Most of the people I knew who went in at an early age were people who never had any career/life direction so the military was the only option for them.  It probably saved their lives.

howardroark

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I think raising the age that people are allowed to go to war is a good idea. The military should still be able to recruit 18 year olds, but they should not be sent to war. Let them train till they're 21 and then they should have an option to quit.

We shouldn't have a huge military because we shouldn't need one. A small band of dedicated warriors is all we need for legitimate national defense.

tonymctones

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I read where Tony said this in another thread... The problem is that you are eliminating 3 years of potential recruits. Doesn't seem like much, but I bet it can cause an issue should an actual war break out.
It would only be an issue for the first 3 years, after that it wouldnt matter.

Hugo Chavez

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I added the option of "other: please explain" since it looks like some might have more elaborate answers to the poll.  Also you can change your vote by clicking remove vote and voting again.

tu_holmes

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It would only be an issue for the first 3 years, after that it wouldnt matter.

Can't there be an issue of your military fighting force being too "old" for combat?

Hugo Chavez

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Can't there be an issue of your military fighting force being too "old" for combat?
enlistment age is set at 42 max.  LOL, maybe I should have a poll asking if that's too old?

tu_holmes

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enlistment age is set at 42 max.  LOL, maybe I should have a poll asking if that's too old?

I thought it was like 36 or something.

Hugo Chavez

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I thought it was like 36 or something.
nope, it's 42.

tu_holmes

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syntaxmachine

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1. If the concern here is that persons that are eligible to serve also ought to be able to drink, then the most sensible way to resolve the inconsistency is to lower the drinking age.

2. The practical effect of raising the enlistment age to 21 is to deny the military its primary source of recruits (the average age of a recruit is 20 despite the enlistment limit being 35, meaning recruitment is heavily skewed toward the precise age bracket this change would eliminate). This seems unwise given the military is an AVF (All Volunteer Force) as is and given that it has been hard-pressed to meet recruiting goals this last decade (evinced by the fact that certain branches began letting in more felons, raising the enlistment limit to 42, etc).

3. Howard, I fail to see the sense in your proposal. You would create a class of military personnel who linger on the payroll for 3 years but are exempted from combat. What exactly would their purpose be? For goodness' sake, it doesn't take 3 years to train a soldier, and all the while these individuals will simultaneously not be contributing to the private economy plus will be of limited utility to the military. What argument is there to justify this extreme inefficiency?

4. If cost is a significant concern, the following should be kept in mind: defense spending entails spending on overseas contingency operations, the much-maligned military industrial complex procurement system, the training and retention of troops, and war-specific spending on troops (e.g., combat pay and disability benefits). There is lots of room here to lower costs without limiting the recruitment pool: for example, winding up the ridiculous wars will shrink contingency spending plus war-specific spending on troops, while reforming the procurement system in order to minimize waste and increase competitiveness also ought to cut costs significantly.

5. tl;dr - The inconsistency between recruitment and drinking is easily solved without affecting recruitment; raising the enlistment age would damage the military's effectiveness; it doesn't make sense for either the private economy or the military to create a class of recruits exempt from combat; costs can be significantly reduced without affecting recruitment; and, if the average 18 year old can figure out how to live on his own, choose a college to go to, find a partner, etc. then it is probably ok to grant him the right to serve (especially since service presents a viable route to cash/benefits comparable to the private sector -- something especially relevant in a difficult job market).

howardroark

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Howard, I fail to see the sense in your proposal. You would create a class of military personnel who linger on the payroll for 3 years but are exempted from combat. What exactly would their purpose be? For goodness' sake, it doesn't take 3 years to train a soldier, and all the while these individuals will simultaneously not be contributing to the private economy plus will be of limited utility to the military. What argument is there to justify this extreme inefficiency?

The inefficiency will handicap the DoD's ability to make war. It will give a significant amount of recruits an easy out in case the government involves us in a war that the American public views as unnecessary or worse, but it will allow recruits interested in making a career of the military to join before age 21 to train and perfect their skills before going to war.

headhuntersix

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Really...I didn't know the DOD makes war...i though the damm President and Congress makes war. Your proposal is the most idiotic I've seen. Plenty of 18-21 year olds are serving just fine here. The average 18-21 year old infantryman is a stud....humping a ruck...climbing these friggen mountains ext, physically u need that. Plus your getting a more productive citizen when they get out. Alot of these kids go to college, start businesses etc. Yeah yeah..suicide, homlessness, PTSD....thats not the average guy. The world is 10 times more dangerous as it was in 2001. We need what we have now or larger. Want to start a draft...maybe, but thats not Hugo's question. Good thread topic.
L

Donny

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I doubt if half the Idiots here were even in the Military themselves. I went in at 18 and while you are very young it was OK...

headhuntersix

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Ah...no they aren't and have zero clue.  Hugo was a Marine...Hugo how old where u...I enlisted at 17 but was 18 by the time I shipped.
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Donny

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Ah...no they aren't and have zero clue.  Hugo was a Marine...Hugo how old where u...I enlisted at 17 but was 18 by the time I shipped.
I wanted to join at 16 because we have the "Junior Army" but i wanted to join the Engineers and the Military Police Officer ::) wanted me to go to the Junior Scottish Infantry which i declined and went back at 17 and they took me for training a few Days after my 18th Birthday. The comments here make it sound like young Guys join because they have no other chance and are losers. Some comments here are from real idiots with no clue. The Guys who joined very young and who stayed in went far up the Ranks.

Donny

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no fucking way.  There are too many fuckups that go to the military as it is their only choice in life.  By raising the age you are allowing these dumb asses 3 more years of mistakes before they have an alternative.  Most of the people I knew who went in at an early age were people who never had any career/life direction so the military was the only option for them.  It probably saved their lives.
what an Idiot >:( call me a fuck up boy and i would smash your fucking teeth down your throat. Most Guys i know at my time when i joined got a lot of respect from people(1985) .. guys like you just never had the Balls to go to the Military. Stick to your easy College life and office job and leave the hard stuff for the "Men" ..OK

Roger Bacon

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The world is 10 times more dangerous as it was in 2001.

I'm not so sure about that, well I guess it could be with us starting unjustifiable wars all over the globe.

headhuntersix

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what an Idiot >:( call me a fuck up boy and i would smash your fucking teeth down your throat. Most Guys i know at my time when i joined got a lot of respect from people(1985) .. guys like you just never had the Balls to go to the Military. Stick to your easy College life and office job and leave the hard stuff for the "Men" ..OK

They read this shit and thats what they think.  Take for instance this morning...we got rocketed...spent 2 hours of my morning to sleep in..in a friggen bunker. They managed to actually hit something...blew up the pizza hut trailer. You get used to this shit real quick but many of these folks can't imagine.

Donny what unit where you in. We have an ex-para assigned to our HQ and I managed to trade for a beret....which to date has been the highlight of this deployment.
L

outby43

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what an Idiot >:( call me a fuck up boy and i would smash your fucking teeth down your throat. Most Guys i know at my time when i joined got a lot of respect from people(1985) .. guys like you just never had the Balls to go to the Military. Stick to your easy College life and office job and leave the hard stuff for the "Men" ..OK

I was stating what I saw "GI Joe".  I saw the recruiters come in to our high school (1986) and setup sessions with some select people.  Guess who was in that crowd.  Yes,  the fucking losers of the school.  They were promising these kids the world and some bought into it.  I am not knocking anyone's service because I have major respect for the troops. It is a thankless job a lot of the time.  It's not that I don't have the balls to join.  I had other options early on, but if this country was getting invaded I would sign up that day.  So just stand down soldier.

I still stand by my statement that cutting out 3 years of eligibility would hurt many people who have no other choices for employment or college.

Donny

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They read this shit and thats what they think.  Take for instance this morning...we got rocketed...spent 2 hours of my morning to sleep in..in a friggen bunker. They managed to actually hit something...blew up the pizza hut trailer. You get used to this shit real quick but many of these folks can't imagine.

Donny what unit where you in. We have an ex-para assigned to our HQ and I managed to trade for a beret....which to date has been the highlight of this deployment.
I was Royal Artillery and we used american Howitzers M109A2 but now they use AS90. My Regt i will not write about in Get Big

B_B_C

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It is acceptable that you be able to kill on behalf of the state/s three years before you are able to buy alcohol in some of them?
c

Kazan

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It is acceptable that you be able to kill on behalf of the state/s three years before you are able to buy alcohol in some of them?

Your point? We have 14 yo gang bangers running around killing people. And getting alcohol isn't that hard for the under 21 crowd
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

240 is Back

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males age 18 to 20 are the prime group for getting smashed and fighting, driving, and doing other stupid shit while drunk.


girls 18-20 just get naked, I doubt lawmakers hate on that.