Author Topic: Romney Economics: The Infomercial  (Read 5116 times)

bike nut

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2012, 10:43:42 PM »
coach.. i said voting republican wont help the issue of getting better jobs...   and you added a comment in agreement with me.. saying "voting for...wont help either" ...  ;D  the problem isnt that i lack comprehension, its that i threw in your face the  meaning behind the literal interpretation of your comment.. a literal interpretation you probably didnt even recognize yourself..  ;D

bike nut.. what the fuck are you talking about... i didnt say anything about globalism or efficient business practices being new..  all that shit you posted is completely unrelated to what i said in of that it does nothing to rebutte or contradict anything i said nor any of the implications of anything i said.. if you actually do wish to add something to the conversation that is in any way relevant or of substance please do so.

Holy fuck.....does it worry/bother you in any way, that 50% of the world is passing you by and you're oblivious to it?

God damn....

tbombz

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2012, 10:58:28 PM »
oh brother.. your avoidance of substantive issues is a bit frustrating as i do enjoy discussing such things.. but alas im beginning to think your probably currently incapable of having a productive conversation on any meaningful issue and thus losing my interest in making more attempts at doing so..

snx

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2012, 06:10:12 AM »
homeboy, your absolutely right about globalism.

but the answer to getting better jobs in america has nothing to do with laizzes faire economics and has everything to do with education. voting republican isnt going to help that issue.

It does have everything to do with education. It also has everything to do with the efficiencies of free market theory. The appreciation for the latter comes from the former. The ability to exploit the latter comes from excellence in the former. Otherwise, without the former, you're left sucking hind tit to the masters who understand how to exploit free market economics. In case anyone's not keeping count, capitalism is winning (selfish genes can't be denied).

Those who understand the free market economy, how to exploit comparative advantage and utilize L/L/C (land/labor/capital) to maximize marginal utility, will always be the wealthy. You can't do that without education, I agree.

So why-oh-why do the country's leaders seek to bring in low paying jobs, whilst at the same time, investing in infrastructure to bolster the nation's schools? The strategy seems dichotomous. If you want dumb people to do dumb jobs, save the money on schools (you won't need them) and instead use those funds more efficiently to bring in more FDI and build shittier jobs. I'm speaking pejoratively here, of course.

The US is under-funding schools. Religious dogma confuses curriculae. You have kids wondering if evolution is right, or if God created the seven seas in 7 days. But let's not make this a religious discussion. What about the US' faltering positions on R&D, innovation, direct investment and ownership of organizations that drive future technological innovation? The US was once mighty in these fields, and now falters relative to only a few years ago. And any company that sets up shop and develops tremendous innovation is quickly allowed to be gobbled by foreign investment and ownership, allowing that amazing technology to be exploited by other nations to their benefit, instead of the US and its own. Sure, I like globalism and I'm all for it, but shouldn't the US do a little more to protect its own technologies for a little while longer, and plan for a longer lifecycle before obsolescence? The net result? Kids are dumber coming out of school, and they're the ones who will have jobs. The smarter ones will still come out of school, with fewer chances at employment. After all, if the US keeps under-funding education and in-sourcing things for which it has no business doing, where are the new smart kids going to go? I  guess to China, where neat things are happening. Or India, or Germany. Places where smart jobs will exist.

But make no mistake about it, you can't stop free market economies. But you can plan for them effectively and allocate your resources properly to maximize marginal utility on L/L/C. The US isn't getting it done anymore. Dumbed-down jobs for a dumbed-down future populace. That's sad, because history has shown that few countries were ever as great as the US. It's not like the country gave up, but it's in the process of giving up sometimes, I think; and it's not over, because it could still be great. Invest in education; invest in R&D; exploit an intelligent populace by exploiting our comparative advantage. We'll still have dumb people in the US, but let's help them get better by emphasizing their education and showing them a better way instead of allowing them to Facebook/XBox/Ipod/welfare/pregnant/Star-Magazine/Wal-Mart their way through their lives. Let's grow and learn and be greater, or we'll just wind up getting passed by, by the countries we used to laugh at as being "back water". Now that would be sad indeed.

Primemuscle

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2012, 01:50:11 AM »
Pretty hard to find a liberal with any economic commonsense. Benny.

Right oh wise one. Why is it that I am a financially secure liberal while my confirmed conservative good friend had to go back to work because she didn't plan well enough for her retirement? -Guess my liberal lack of economic commonsense won out here, huh?

Coach is Back!

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2012, 06:53:41 AM »
Right oh wise one. Why is it that I am a financially secure liberal while my confirmed conservative good friend had to go back to work because she didn't plan well enough for her retirement? -Guess my liberal lack of economic commonsense won out here, huh?


If you're in debt do you take out a loan to repay the previous debt? And so on and so on?

tbombz

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2012, 03:20:30 PM »
It does have everything to do with education. It also has everything to do with the efficiencies of free market theory. The appreciation for the latter comes from the former. The ability to exploit the latter comes from excellence in the former. Otherwise, without the former, you're left sucking hind tit to the masters who understand how to exploit free market economics. In case anyone's not keeping count, capitalism is winning (selfish genes can't be denied).

Those who understand the free market economy, how to exploit comparative advantage and utilize L/L/C (land/labor/capital) to maximize marginal utility, will always be the wealthy. You can't do that without education, I agree.

So why-oh-why do the country's leaders seek to bring in low paying jobs, whilst at the same time, investing in infrastructure to bolster the nation's schools? The strategy seems dichotomous. If you want dumb people to do dumb jobs, save the money on schools (you won't need them) and instead use those funds more efficiently to bring in more FDI and build shittier jobs. I'm speaking pejoratively here, of course.

The US is under-funding schools. Religious dogma confuses curriculae. You have kids wondering if evolution is right, or if God created the seven seas in 7 days. But let's not make this a religious discussion. What about the US' faltering positions on R&D, innovation, direct investment and ownership of organizations that drive future technological innovation? The US was once mighty in these fields, and now falters relative to only a few years ago. And any company that sets up shop and develops tremendous innovation is quickly allowed to be gobbled by foreign investment and ownership, allowing that amazing technology to be exploited by other nations to their benefit, instead of the US and its own. Sure, I like globalism and I'm all for it, but shouldn't the US do a little more to protect its own technologies for a little while longer, and plan for a longer lifecycle before obsolescence? The net result? Kids are dumber coming out of school, and they're the ones who will have jobs. The smarter ones will still come out of school, with fewer chances at employment. After all, if the US keeps under-funding education and in-sourcing things for which it has no business doing, where are the new smart kids going to go? I  guess to China, where neat things are happening. Or India, or Germany. Places where smart jobs will exist.

But make no mistake about it, you can't stop free market economies. But you can plan for them effectively and allocate your resources properly to maximize marginal utility on L/L/C. The US isn't getting it done anymore. Dumbed-down jobs for a dumbed-down future populace. That's sad, because history has shown that few countries were ever as great as the US. It's not like the country gave up, but it's in the process of giving up sometimes, I think; and it's not over, because it could still be great. Invest in education; invest in R&D; exploit an intelligent populace by exploiting our comparative advantage. We'll still have dumb people in the US, but let's help them get better by emphasizing their education and showing them a better way instead of allowing them to Facebook/XBox/Ipod/welfare/pregnant/Star-Magazine/Wal-Mart their way through their lives. Let's grow and learn and be greater, or we'll just wind up getting passed by, by the countries we used to laugh at as being "back water". Now that would be sad indeed.

i dont think protectionism is ever wise. and if you are such a free market advocate you wouldnt either. free trade and free markets are what is best for everybody.  education needs to be improved and at the time being the democrats are more suited to make that happen than the republicans are.

snx

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2012, 03:29:06 PM »
i dont think protectionism is ever wise. and if you are such a free market advocate you wouldnt either. free trade and free markets are what is best for everybody.  education needs to be improved and at the time being the democrats are more suited to make that happen than the republicans are.

Protectionism comes in many forms. Not all can be classified as "never good".

Patents are a form of protectionism that restrict free market play. Are you against them?

Tariffs are a form of protectionism that restrict free market play. Are you against them?

Saying "never" is a big matzo ball hanging out there. Like the old saying goes, "only fools are certain".

I'm a free market advocate. I also believe that those originate technological innovation should have a chance to exploit that. Otherwise, you remove the incentive to innovate.

I won't comment on Dems vs Repubs. I don't have a dog in the fight. Frankly, I think both are corrupt and immoral.

tbombz

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2012, 03:39:16 PM »
hm. you bring up a good point.

but i dont think its wise to try and regulate such things with requirements.

much better to adopt a carrot and stick approach.

tbombz

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2012, 04:02:26 PM »
i dont really see patents as protectionism. althought i see the connection your making between patents and trade restrictions.

tarrifs are absolutely protectionism and yes those are never wise.


protectionist policies can help protect producers who are unable to compete successfully without protections. but i dont think subsidizing competitors from compeition is ever a good thing for the economy.


patents protect innovators from leeches. something very different than protecting inefficient producers from losing business to more efficient competitors.

howardroark

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2012, 04:03:02 AM »
i dont think protectionism is ever wise. and if you are such a free market advocate you wouldnt either. free trade and free markets are what is best for everybody.  education needs to be improved and at the time being the democrats are more suited to make that happen than the republicans are.

"Education" is not a function of the federal government.

tbombz

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2012, 02:20:55 PM »
"Education" is not a function of the federal government.
give me a reason why education shouldnt be a service provided by the government that doesnt inherently argue away the government from providing any service whatsoever.  :)

Primemuscle

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2012, 02:42:41 PM »
"Education" is not a function of the federal government.

Who do you believe should be responsible for insuring that everyone gets enough education to be able to function in today's society? Ideally, one could argue that if it is a child, it is the parent's responsibility. Unfortunately, I know from firsthand experience that far too many parents could care less about educating their children (I worked in education for nearly 30 years). The State is primarily responsible for providing education. However, some states seem to be doing a poor job funding and monitoring education, which is why the Federal government instituted and enforces "no child left behind".

The uneducated are more likely to be unemployed, engage in criminal activities and generally require government assistance or intervention. Funding education is an issue of government (we the people) paying now or paying later.

tonymctones

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2012, 11:07:30 PM »
give me a reason why education shouldnt be a service provided by the government that doesnt inherently argue away the government from providing any service whatsoever.  :)
give me one that doesnt argue that govt should provide every service...

tonymctones

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2012, 11:14:21 PM »
Who do you believe should be responsible for insuring that everyone gets enough education to be able to function in today's society? Ideally, one could argue that if it is a child, it is the parent's responsibility. Unfortunately, I know from firsthand experience that far too many parents could care less about educating their children (I worked in education for nearly 30 years). The State is primarily responsible for providing education. However, some states seem to be doing a poor job funding and monitoring education, which is why the Federal government instituted and enforces "no child left behind".

The uneducated are more likely to be unemployed, engage in criminaactivitieses and generally require government assistance or intervention. Funding education is an issue of government (we the people) paying now or paying later.
sorry bro, I mean this with the utmost respect being a janitor does not qualify you to speak on this subject as an expert...


tbombz

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2012, 01:59:46 PM »
give me one that doesnt argue that govt should provide every service...
  ;)

Roger Bacon

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2012, 02:09:20 PM »
give me a reason why education shouldnt be a service provided by the government that doesnt inherently argue away the government from providing any service whatsoever.  :)

He said the Federal Government.

whork

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2012, 08:05:33 AM »
Why does America want call centers, low-paying manufacturing jobs and generally the shit work you can send overseas?

It's called COMPARATIVE ADVANTAGE, for fuck's sake. If you have a populace that's essentially rich enough to be able to school it's young, then don't attract shit jobs for them. Use the populace for what it's trained to do - namely, how to instruct the poor nations on HOW to do the shit jobs that provide the parts/tools/inputs necessary to allow the wealthier nations to thrive. That's comparative advantage. Teach them how to set up the factories and run them, and consult with them at exhorbitant rates on the newest technological developments you've created that will save them time and money (you know, good old R&D...something America was once famous for and the best in the world at. Ingenuity. Yeah, it's a foreign word now I guess).

Doesn't anyone ascribe to the belief that perhaps, it might be a good idea to not be putting widgets into holes in a factory in America? That those jobs are for people who don't have the opportunity to attend a public school and earn an education and go to college and be far more productive for their country? No, let's keep the shit jobs in America and dumb down the populace and give them nothing to strive for so we drive down our GDP, become a haven for low-paying manufacturing jobs and foreign direct investment, and drive immigration of under-employable people whilst simulataneously creating an efflux brain drain of smart Americans who seek their fortunes elsewhere in countries that truly do value educated people. Great plan.

I like strategic outsourcing. It makes sense. It always has. The problem is we let politics and agendas drive the process, and we let stupid uneducated people vote on it. The great unwashed slack-jawed mouth-breathing masses get what they deserve; a president and congress who give them exactly what they want -- shit jobs, for shit money to keep them feeling safe and secure in their little boxes with no risk. But don't you dare complain when you can't afford your boat and house you dumbfuck...you brought it all upon yourself. Get a credit card, I guess.

Boom very nice post, thank you

Option D

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2012, 08:12:47 AM »
Keep em coming B

I get mildly amused by you sheep that really think that it makes a difference if Romney or Obama or Osama is going to sit in that prestige leather boss chair in the oval office.

Stark...you might be a dick head..but you are right about this one...This shit is hilarious... people going hard for one or the other...but it makes no difference

Primemuscle

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2012, 03:22:20 PM »
Why does America want call centers, low-paying manufacturing jobs and generally the shit work you can send overseas?

It's called COMPARATIVE ADVANTAGE, for fuck's sake. If you have a populace that's essentially rich enough to be able to school it's young, then don't attract shit jobs for them. Use the populace for what it's trained to do - namely, how to instruct the poor nations on HOW to do the shit jobs that provide the parts/tools/inputs necessary to allow the wealthier nations to thrive. That's comparative advantage. Teach them how to set up the factories and run them, and consult with them at exhorbitant rates on the newest technological developments you've created that will save them time and money (you know, good old R&D...something America was once famous for and the best in the world at. Ingenuity. Yeah, it's a foreign word now I guess).

Doesn't anyone ascribe to the belief that perhaps, it might be a good idea to not be putting widgets into holes in a factory in America? That those jobs are for people who don't have the opportunity to attend a public school and earn an education and go to college and be far more productive for their country? No, let's keep the shit jobs in America and dumb down the populace and give them nothing to strive for so we drive down our GDP, become a haven for low-paying manufacturing jobs and foreign direct investment, and drive immigration of under-employable people whilst simulataneously creating an efflux brain drain of smart Americans who seek their fortunes elsewhere in countries that truly do value educated people. Great plan.

I like strategic outsourcing. It makes sense. It always has. The problem is we let politics and agendas drive the process, and we let stupid uneducated people vote on it. The great unwashed slack-jawed mouth-breathing masses get what they deserve; a president and congress who give them exactly what they want -- shit jobs, for shit money to keep them feeling safe and secure in their little boxes with no risk. But don't you dare complain when you can't afford your boat and house you dumbfuck...you brought it all upon yourself. Get a credit card, I guess.

Because unlike you, some of us have a better grasp on reality. If getting an education guaranteed one a decent job, then why are so many college graduates out of work? Many folks with master's degrees are presently working in low paying jobs to survive in today's economy. Unfortunately, Americans are not as elite as you imagine them to be regardless of their education. Furthermore, before you make such a statement, check the education statistics for the U.S. As of 2012 only 30% of Americans had earned a bachelor's degree. Perhaps you think the other 70% should move to Bangladesh or some other city in a third world country where they can put widgets together in a factory for $.50 a day.


Primemuscle

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2012, 03:54:42 PM »
sorry bro, I mean this with the utmost respect being a janitor does not qualify you to speak on this subject as an expert...



Sorry Tonymctones, I mean this with the utmost respect; but you assuming that a "janitor" such as I once was, automatically disqualifies me to speak on the subject of education shows how ignorant and how given to stereotyping you are. The truth is, you know absolutely nothing regarding who I am and what I am or am not qualified to speak about as an expert.

Should we ever run into each other when I am lobbying for better education funding in D.C., we should grab a coffee and get to know each other some, so we don't post stupid things about one another on Internet forums.

Just saying....

whork

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Re: Romney Economics: The Infomercial
« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2012, 03:09:48 AM »
sorry bro, I mean this with the utmost respect being a janitor does not qualify you to speak on this subject as an expert...



He comes of a lot smarter than you Tony so i would STFU and learn something