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Author Topic: The bible and the trinity (or lack of it)  (Read 7730 times)
Onetimehard
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Jasher


« Reply #150 on: October 04, 2012, 10:22:03 AM »

And would that mean He would now be a tree and no longer God?  By definition you can't be two things at once.
Yes you can be 2 things at once, there you guys go again making up your own rules.
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« Reply #151 on: October 04, 2012, 10:25:13 AM »

Yes you can be 2 things at once, there you guys go again making up your own rules.

A tree by definition is not God, therefore if God became a tree He is no longer God.  Again, its just a play of words, can we move on to something closer to topic, like you suggested earlier?  How about my question below:

Like I posted earlier in this thread or in another one (can't recall now), have you considered that the "son of God" title is not meant to be taken literally?

Keep in mind there are countless quotes in the Bible where other individuals as well as whole populations are referred to as "son of God" or "sons of God."  
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« Reply #152 on: October 04, 2012, 10:29:19 AM »

A tree by definition is not God, therefore if God became a tree He is no longer God.  Again, its just a play of words, can we move on to something closer to topic, like you suggested earlier?  How about my question below:

How about why God chose Jesus above all others on the planet sense the beginning of time to have a virgin birth  Wink
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« Reply #153 on: October 04, 2012, 10:32:42 AM »

A tree by definition is not God, therefore if God became a tree He is no longer God.  Again, its just a play of words, can we move on to something closer to topic, like you suggested earlier?  How about my question below:

In job it talks about ``the sons of God`` and in Genesis 6 also, referring to the angels. then there is children of God as a nation but you have to give me a quote where it refers to an individual human being as `the son of God`` cause I don`t know any of these verses you are referring to.
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« Reply #154 on: October 04, 2012, 10:33:22 AM »

So how does a virgin birth make someone God? No human father  but a human mother.

Adam is even more awesome in that regard. He had no human father or human mother. God created him as the first human.

You still didn't answer my question.

If I chop up the tree is that still God?
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« Reply #155 on: October 04, 2012, 10:33:56 AM »

In job it talks about ``the sons of God`` and in Genesis 6 also, referring to the angels. then there is children of God as a nation but you have to give me a quote where it refers to an individual human being as `the son of God`` cause I don`t know any of these verses you are referring to.

Quote
[God is being quoted as speaking to Nathan, telling him to say the following things to David.]

11: When your days are fulfilled to go to be with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, one of your own sons, and I will establish his kingdom.
12: He shall build a house for me, and I will establish his throne for ever.

13: I will be his Father, and he shall be my Son; I will not take my steadfast love from him, as I took it from him who was before you,

14: but I will confirm him in my house and in my kingdom for ever and his throne shall be established for ever.'"

15: In accordance with all these words, and in accordance with all this vision, Nathan spoke to David.

Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my firstborn."

Psalm 2:7 "....Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."




Luke 5:16 "And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed to his God."

As I said to man of steel, do you believe God is bipolar? It's disturbing.

Jesus indeed was a Muslim as he prayed to God as all the prophets prayed and as we today do... and he submitted his will to God which is the literal definition of a Muslim:

Matthew 26:39 "And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell upon his face, praying and saying 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me.  Yet, not as I will, but as you will.' "

Matthew 26:42 "Again, for the second time, he (Jesus) went off and prayed, saying: 'My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away except I drink it, let your will take place.'"
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« Reply #156 on: October 04, 2012, 10:45:52 AM »

Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my firstborn."

Psalm 2:7 "....Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."




Luke 5:16 "And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed to his God."

As I said to man of steel, do you believe God is bipolar? It's disturbing.

Jesus indeed was a Muslim as he prayed to God as all the prophets prayed and as we today do... and he submitted his will to God which is the literal definition of a Muslim:

Matthew 26:39 "And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell upon his face, praying and saying 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me.  Yet, not as I will, but as you will.' "

Matthew 26:42 "Again, for the second time, he (Jesus) went off and prayed, saying: 'My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away except I drink it, let your will take place.'"
In both passages he is referring to the nation of Israel, sorry try again  Wink

I already stated in my post above that God refers to a nation, in this case the nation of Israel is God`s children, and that Psalm David wrote was when he became King of Israel, representing God`s children (Israel)
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« Reply #157 on: October 04, 2012, 10:46:11 AM »

Jacob = Israel. Jacob was renamed to Israel. Israel's children such as Joseph and Benjamin and their offsprings which are the 12 tribes. Jews come from Jacob. None the less you are still deluding yourself. It's right in front of you hitting you head first, even David being called son of God, even 'begotten' (which again literally would mean sexually concieved).

Cute how you ignored the verses about Jesus praying to God, saying not his (jesus') will but God's will.

Matthew 26:44 "So leaving them, he (Jesus) went off and prayed for the third time, saying once more the same word."

And again you ignored my continuing question in response to your yes. If you say God can become a tree, what happens to God if I chop up the tree?
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« Reply #158 on: October 04, 2012, 11:05:37 AM »

Jacob = Israel. Jacob was renamed to Israel. Israel's children such as Joseph and Benjamin and their offsprings which are the 12 tribes. Jews come from Jacob. None the less you are still deluding yourself. It's right in front of you hitting you head first, even David being called son of God, even 'begotten' (which again literally would mean sexually concieved).

Cute how you ignored the verses about Jesus praying to God, saying not his (jesus') will but God's will.

Matthew 26:44 "So leaving them, he (Jesus) went off and prayed for the third time, saying once more the same word."

And again you ignored my continuing question in response to your yes. If you say God can become a tree, what happens to God if I chop up the tree?
What are you in grade 2, who doesn`t know this bro. As far as the verse in Mathew we are not debating if Jesus is God, I won`t bother if you don`t even believe Jesus is the son of God why would I debate that Jesus is God?

Now as for the Psalm I just explained it to you, why do I have to explain it again, listen carefully bro. David wrote the Psalm when he was crowned, that is when God begot him as the head of a nation, his children, the children of Israel, the Bible makes this perfectly clear, next verse please
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« Reply #159 on: October 04, 2012, 11:09:28 AM »

Okay so I guess you are not willing to answer honestly and continue to delude yourself that God is a human being despite all the many verses I posted that nothing and no one is like God. Jesus praying to God. Jesus saying not his own will but that of God's will. And so on and so forth.

You seem to zig zag with your beliefs when it is convenient to you. Here you realize it is not literal, and all other examples, but then you insist on worshipping Jesus a human being sent by God, created by God, chosen by God.

He was only a prophet sent by God.

I recommend you check out the interview of Dr. Jerald Dirks who was a reverent, who has a doctorate in divinity from Harward, who went to seminaries studying THE actual original texts, history of the texts, etc... and who ultimately has alot more knowledge than you or I about scripture. He embraced Islam and denounced the trinity. He goes into great depth talking about the pauline christianity which ultimately over took and the original christianity such as the church in jerusalem the actual disciples of Jesus.

It's two parts, it's under people who became muslim the last video I watched/posted today.





Lastly you ignore the tree question which you answered as yes God can become a true. What happens to God if you chop up the tree? This is your words. Instead of saying it's 'grade 2', be honest and answer yourself. You know the truth but your pride and arrogance are holding you back.
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« Reply #160 on: October 04, 2012, 11:19:48 AM »

Ya I am going to change my faith in my savior Jesus cause an internet guy showed me a few a versus that he interpreted in his own manner, bro Christian have read the scriptures and some of them are way more knowledgeable and smarter then you and I, you are going to educate them right? Good Luck
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« Reply #161 on: October 04, 2012, 11:24:29 AM »

Again ignoring the tree question. Why? Pride? I will keep asking until you answer it.

No that man embraced Islam, he studied the actual original texts, has a doctorate in divinity, was a reverent, maybe you should listen to him a little. He certainly did not preach pantheism like you do. You are the one interpreting what you want how you want. I have been giving you literal verses which debunk your pantheism and polytheism, and show the bible as erronous and contradictory in reference to distorted things that contradict themselves hence the confussion that leads some people to worship and believe as pantheists and polytheists and not as monotheists. If you do away with the pantheism and polytheism, you would be closer to the truth.

Jesus came to 'save you' by teaching you about God as all the prophets of God are meant to. Worshipping and obeying God will save you, not wishful thinking.
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« Reply #162 on: October 04, 2012, 11:28:30 AM »

Again ignoring the tree question. Why? Pride? I will keep asking until you answer it.

No that man embraced Islam, he studied the actual original texts, has a doctorate in divinity, was a reverent, maybe you should listen to him a little. He certainly did not preach pantheism like you do. You are the one interpreting what you want how you want. I have been giving you literal verses which debunk your pantheism and polytheism, and show the bible as erronous and contradictory hence the confussion that leads some people to worship and believe as pantheists and polytheists and not as monotheists. If you do away with the pantheism and polytheism, you would be closer to the truth.

Jesus came to 'save you' by teaching you about God as all the prophets of God are meant to. Worshipping and obeying God will save you, not wishful thinking.
Why should I listen to him, his teachings come from a false prophet  Wink
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« Reply #163 on: October 04, 2012, 11:30:42 AM »

Paul is a false prophet.

Muhammad (pbuh) did not contradict the teachings of Jesus or past prophets. Paul did.

Why? Because he knows alot more about scripture, original texts, how they were formed, how they came to be, their history, how the bible came to be. How christianity came to be. From original christianity to pauline christianity which ultimately dominated over the original followers of Jesus as time went on. The fact that he has a doctorate in divinity, the fact that he was a revrent. Things an internet dude like yourself has nothing on him.

He did not let his pride and arrogance blindly guide him to worship a human being.

In case you don't know what a doctorate in divinity is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Divinity

Quote
Historically, it identified one who had been licensed by a university to teach Christian theology or related religious subjects.

Hence he knows alot more than you do.
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« Reply #164 on: October 04, 2012, 11:38:40 AM »

Quote
"There is some irony in the fact that the supposedly best, brightest, and most idealistic of ministers-to-be are selected for the very best of seminary education, e.g. that offered at that time at the Harvard Divinity School. The irony is that, given such an education, the seminarian is exposed to ... much ... historical truth. .. As such, it is no real wonder that almost a majority of such seminary graduates leave seminary, not to “fill pulpits”, where they would be asked to preach that which they know is not true, but to enter the various counseling professions. Such was also the case for me, as I went on to earn a master’s and doctorate in clinical psychology."

Dr. Dirks is a former minister (deacon) of the United Methodist Church. He holds a Master's degree in Divinity from Harvard University and a Doctorate in Psychology from the University of Denver. Author of "The Cross and the Crescent: An Interfaith Dialogue between Christianity and Islam" (2001), and "Abraham: The Friend of God" (2002). He has published over 60 articles in the field of clinical psychology, and over 150 articles on Arabian horses.

© 2002 (Abu Yahya) Jerald F. Dirks, M. Div, Psy. D.   Reproduced below with his permission and segmented into six sections without any alternation or editing in the text content.

One of my earliest childhood memories is of hearing the church bell toll for Sunday morning worship in the small, rural town in which I was raised. The Methodist Church was an old, wooden structure with a bell tower, two children’s Sunday School classrooms cubbyholed behind folding, wooden doors to separate it from the sanctuary, and a choir loft that housed the Sunday school classrooms for the older children. It stood less than two blocks from my home. As the bell rang, we would come together as a family, and make our weekly pilgrimage to the church.

In that rural setting from the 1950s, the three churches in the town of about 500 were the center of community life. The local Methodist Church, to which my family belonged, sponsored ice cream socials with hand-cranked, homemade ice cream, chicken potpie dinners, and corn roasts. My family and I were always involved in all three, but each came only once a year. In addition, there was a two-week community Bible school every June, and I was a regular attendee through my eighth grade year in school. However, Sunday morning worship and Sunday school were weekly events, and I strove to keep extending my collection of perfect attendance pins and of awards for memorizing Bible verses.

By my junior high school days, the local Methodist Church had closed, and we were attending the Methodist Church in the neighboring town, which was only slightly larger than the town in which I lived. There, my thoughts first began to focus on the ministry as a personal calling. I became active in the Methodist Youth Fellowship, and eventually served as both a district and a conference officer. I also became the regular “preacher” during the annual Youth Sunday service.   


My preaching began to draw community-wide attention, and before long I was occasionally filling pulpits at other churches, at a nursing home, and at various church-affiliated youth and ladies groups, where I typically set attendance records.

By age 17, when I began my freshman year at Harvard College, my decision to enter the ministry had solidified. During my freshman year, I enrolled in a two-semester course in comparative religion, which was taught by Wilfred Cantwell Smith, whose specific area of expertise was Islam. During that course, I gave far less attention to Islam, than I did to other religions, such as Hinduism and Buddhism, as the latter two seemed so much more esoteric and strange to me. In contrast, Islam appeared to be somewhat similar to my own Christianity. As such, I didn’t concentrate on it as much as I probably should have, although I can remember writing a term paper for the course on the concept of revelation in the Qur’an. Nonetheless, as the course was one of rigorous academic standards and demands, I did acquire a small library of about a half dozen books on Islam, all of which were written by non-Muslims, and all of which were to serve me in good stead 25 years later. I also acquired two different English translations of the meaning of the Qur’an, which I read at the time.

That spring, Harvard named me a Hollis Scholar, signifying that I was one of the top pre-theology students in the college. The summer between my freshman and sophomore years at Harvard, I worked as a youth minister at a fairly large United Methodist Church. The following summer, I obtained my License to Preach from the United Methodist Church. Upon graduating from Harvard College in 1971, I enrolled at the Harvard Divinity School, and there obtained my Master of Divinity degree in 1974, having been previously ordained into the Deaconate of the United Methodist Church in 1972, and having previously received a Stewart Scholarship from the United Methodist Church as a supplement to my Harvard Divinity School scholarships. During my seminary education, I also completed a two-year externship program as a hospital chaplain at Peter Bent Brigham Hospital in Boston. Following graduation from Harvard Divinity School, I spent the summer as the minister of two United Methodist churches in rural Kansas, where attendance soared to heights not seen in those churches for several years.

You can read the rest here:

http://www.welcome-back.org/profile/dirks2.shtml

http://www.welcome-back.org/profile/dirks3.shtml

http://www.welcome-back.org/profile/dirks4.shtml

http://www.welcome-back.org/profile/dirks5.shtml

http://www.welcome-back.org/profile/dirks6.shtml
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« Reply #165 on: October 04, 2012, 12:08:26 PM »

Okay so I guess you are not willing to answer honestly and continue to delude yourself that God is a human being despite all the many verses I posted that nothing and no one is like God. Jesus praying to God. Jesus saying not his own will but that of God's will. And so on and so forth.

You seem to zig zag with your beliefs when it is convenient to you. Here you realize it is not literal, and all other examples, but then you insist on worshipping Jesus a human being sent by God, created by God, chosen by God.

He was only a prophet sent by God.

I recommend you check out the interview of Dr. Jerald Dirks who was a reverent, who has a doctorate in divinity from Harward, who went to seminaries studying THE actual original texts, history of the texts, etc... and who ultimately has alot more knowledge than you or I about scripture. He embraced Islam and denounced the trinity. He goes into great depth talking about the pauline christianity which ultimately over took and the original christianity such as the church in jerusalem the actual disciples of Jesus.

It's two parts, it's under people who became muslim the last video I watched/posted today.





Lastly you ignore the tree question which you answered as yes God can become a true. What happens to God if you chop up the tree? This is your words. Instead of saying it's 'grade 2', be honest and answer yourself. You know the truth but your pride and arrogance are holding you back.

GOSPEL REFERENCES SPEAKING TO THE DEITY OF JESUS AND THE TRINITY:

Jesus claim that God the Father and God the Son are one:
Matthew 11:25-27
The Father Revealed in the Son
25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

Jesus affirms he is God:
Matthew 26:63-64
63 But Jesus remained silent.
The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”
64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”[a]

Jesus affirming his divine kingship and authority:
Luke 22:29-30
29 And I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The disciples acknowledged the deity of Christ:
Mark 10:37
37 They replied, “Let one of us sit at your right and the other at your left in your glory.”

Jesus claimed to be the wiser than the wisest Solomon who’s wisdom was a gift from God:
Matthew 12:42
42 The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now something greater than Solomon is here.

Jesus provided miraculous healing and forgave sins:
Mark 2:1-12
Jesus Forgives and Heals a Paralyzed Man
2 A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home. 2 They gathered in such large numbers that there was no room left, not even outside the door, and he preached the word to them. 3 Some men came, bringing to him a paralyzed man, carried by four of them. 4 Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus by digging through it and then lowered the mat the man was lying on. 5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? 9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? 10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, 11 “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” 12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”

Jesus claims that he is the only path to the divine kingdom of heaven:
Matthew 7:21-23
True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Jesus sits on the divine throne in heaven and commands all the angels of heaven:
Matthew 25:31
The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.

Jesus claim as divine Lord and Messiah:
Matthew 22:41-46
Whose Son Is the Messiah?
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”
“The son of David,” they replied.
43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,
44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
    “Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
    under your feet.”’[a]
45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?” 46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Jesus again claiming divine kingship and divine authority to judge and approve judges:
Matthew 19:28
28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jesus claiming to be the only way to divine salvation:
Matthew 10:34-39
34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36     a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[a]
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

Jesus claiming his eternal rule and existence (OT reference in Isaiah 40):
Mark 13:31
31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Isaiah 40 The grass withers and the flowers fall,
    but the word of our God endures forever.”

Jesus divine authority to command demonic spirits:
Mark 1:27
27 The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, “What is this? A new teaching—and with authority! He even gives orders to impure spirits and they obey him.”
Jesus divine claim as only way to eternal life and divine salvation:
John 14:6
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

OTHER NT TRINITY AND DEITY OF JESUS REFERENCES:
John 1:1-31 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

1 Corinthians 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

2 Corinthians 13:14
14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Hebrews 1:1-5
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

Romans 10:1-12
10 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.”6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Acts 4:10-12
10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is
“‘the stone you builders rejected,
    which has become the cornerstone.’
12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

OT TRINITY REFERENCES:
Genesis 1:26
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Genesis 3:22
22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

Genesis 11:7
7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

Isaiah 6:8
8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”
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« Reply #166 on: October 04, 2012, 12:14:59 PM »

I started reading and was quite dissapointed. I don't see anywhere Jesus saying "worship me I am God"

Jesus being chosen by God does not make him God. He like other prophets was chosen by God.

Jesus doing miracles does not make him God. Just as Moses did not become God because he had 'powers'.

Jesus IS the only way to God. Why? Because all the prophets of God are the only way to God at their given time.

It's weird how in these things you see Jesus being God. Baffling.

Jesus commanding jinn, exorcism? Muslims do it too.

Quote
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

This itself is such blasphemy. It's like saying even if there are gods out there. This is not the word of God, or word of Jesus. Obviously writings of Paul

All the letters of the NT are Paul's writings. I don't believe in them as they are clear manifest human works.
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« Reply #167 on: October 04, 2012, 12:17:11 PM »

Good job MOS, that seals the deal for Ahmed  Cool
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« Reply #168 on: October 04, 2012, 12:19:15 PM »

Good job MOS, that seals the deal for Ahmed  Cool

I feel sorry for you. How you delude yourself.

Other than Paul's letters which have nothing to do with Jesus ultimately, but are Paul's own writings. There is nothing that says Hear oh Israel I jesus am your God. Israel worship me, Jesus. Etc...

I guess ignoring all the other verses is inspiring to you to be a polytheist and pantheist?

What about the contradicting verses that say there is NOTHING and no one like God?
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« Reply #169 on: October 04, 2012, 12:19:23 PM »

I started reading and was quite dissapointed. I don't see anywhere Jesus saying "worship me I am God"

Jesus being chosen by God does not make him God. He like other prophets was chosen by God.

Jesus doing miracles does not make him God. Just as Moses did not become God because he had 'powers'.

Jesus IS the only way to God. Why? Because all the prophets of God are the only way to God at their given time.

It's weird how in these things you see Jesus being God. Baffling.

Jesus commanding jinn, exorcism? Muslims do it too.

This itself is such blasphemy. It's like saying even if there are gods out there. This is not the word of God, or word of Jesus. Obviously writings of Paul
unfortunatly Muhammad was not one of those prophets
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« Reply #170 on: October 04, 2012, 12:20:20 PM »

I feel sorry for you. How you delude yourself.
I feel sorry for you for not accepting the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ  Smiley
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #171 on: October 04, 2012, 12:21:02 PM »

I feel sorry for you for not accepting the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ  Smiley

Gift? You mean lie? I was christian. I reject falsehood. I accept Jesus.
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« Reply #172 on: October 04, 2012, 12:21:33 PM »

unfortunatly Muhammad was not one of those prophets

In case you didn't know we are 2 billion people today following Muhammad (pbuh) and growing.

Unlike the bible, the quran is the word of God. Unlike the bible, the quran does not contradict itself like the bible does over and over again. Hence your confusion.

Unlike Jesus (peace be upon him), we have details about Muhammad (pbuh) witnessed by tens of thousands. Your only witness is a fraud Paul who was in fact an oppressor and bounty hunter of the real followers of Jesus.

The teachings and beliefs of the original followers of Jesus have been lost, what we have are later beliefs by Paul which overtook the original christianity as in the church of jerusalem.



If a deacon, a reverent, a doctor of divinity, a seminary who studied and held the original texts, studied where, how, when, by whom these were written, added, manipulated, even the reasons why they were changed, can become a Muslim. So can you.

He like many learned christian theologians has a hard time living with himself inside himself preaching lies but knowing they are lies.

I may not have had a doctorate in divinity but i had the same problem studying and knowing the bible and its history, and the history of christianity
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« Reply #173 on: October 04, 2012, 12:25:00 PM »

In case you didn't know we are 2 billion people today following Muhammad (pbuh) and growing.

Unlike the bible, the quran is the word of God. Unlike the bible, the quran does not contradict itself like the bible does over and over again. Hence your confusion.

Unlike Jesus (peace be upon him), we have details about Muhammad (pbuh) witnessed by tens of thousands. Your only witness is a fraud Paul who was in fact an oppressor and bounty hunter of the real followers of Jesus.

The teachings and beliefs of the original followers of Jesus have been lost, what we have are later beliefs by Paul which overtook the original christianity as in the church of jerusalem.
That means nothing, there are 2 billion atheist as well
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« Reply #174 on: October 04, 2012, 12:26:31 PM »

Those atheists might have been christians. They left christianity because they could no longer live lies in worshipping a human being when they themselves are human beings. They might have become educated and learned the bible, yet they could not live with the innumerate contradictions. Knowing more about the bible, christianity and the church made them run away. I ran away the more I learned although I did not reject God.

And so there are amongst christians those who are not polytheists or pantheists. They will accept Islam when they learn about Islam.

So, how about that tree? What would happen to God if I chopped up the tree that you said "God could become a tree" I am going to keep asking you this wherever I see you try to debate until you answer.
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