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Author Topic: The bible and the trinity (or lack of it)  (Read 8569 times)
avxo
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« Reply #225 on: October 05, 2012, 08:38:11 PM »

Huh Huh Huh Angry Cheesy

I thought it was quite clear.
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #226 on: October 05, 2012, 10:43:36 PM »

So Allah speaks in the third person?

Through the Qur'an God spoke commanding Muhammad to utter words. God spoke of past events & people, then present events & people and future events & things to come. In this verse it is refering to what will happen on the day of judgment when God will ask Jesus if he told people "Worship me Jesus" or "I Jesus am God" to which Jesus will respond as quoted in the verse.
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Onetimehard
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« Reply #227 on: October 06, 2012, 02:35:12 AM »

Muhammad has a wild imagination  Smiley
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« Reply #228 on: October 06, 2012, 03:15:06 AM »

Wow Griffith laying the smack down, from a theological perspective of course, but pretty simple mathematics, 1+1 = 2 but for Islam it =3  Cheesy

Perfect answer for bigbobs, he will be seated at the right hand of the father and he was born from a virgin, those 2 points is obvious enough for anyone to believe that when they say son of God it's a literal term.

haha thanks!  Grin
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« Reply #229 on: October 06, 2012, 06:22:54 AM »

Through the Qur'an God spoke commanding Muhammad to utter words. God spoke of past events & people, then present events & people and future events & things to come. In this verse it is refering to what will happen on the day of judgment when God will ask Jesus if he told people "Worship me Jesus" or "I Jesus am God" to which Jesus will respond as quoted in the verse.

Can you imagine what this guy was smoking when he made all this shit up? I know it cause riots and shit... but The Innocence of Muslims is prolly close. All stoned and talking to goats and shit. And dummys like Ahmed still buying it all this time later. Classic.
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$
a_ahmed
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« Reply #230 on: October 07, 2012, 08:50:49 AM »

You are buying into worshipping a man that was created by God.

Oh and I don't do narcotics or haluconegenics, be it alcohol or marijauana.
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« Reply #231 on: October 07, 2012, 10:20:15 AM »

You are buying into worshipping a man that was created by God.

Oh and I don't do narcotics or haluconegenics, be it alcohol or marijauana.
and you are buying into a man who lied and claimed to be a prophet with a wild imagination
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #232 on: October 07, 2012, 10:33:12 AM »

He didn't lie, he fulfilled prophecies and spoke not of his own but the words God put in his mouth.

He did not contradict any of the past prophets but reaffirms what was. Yes skipping the man made beliefs of Paul and the church, and this is where we disagree.
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« Reply #233 on: October 07, 2012, 10:36:20 AM »

He didn't lie, he fulfilled prophecies and spoke not of his own but the words God put in his mouth.

He did not contradict any of the past prophets but reaffirms what was. Yes skipping the man made beliefs of Paul and the church, and this is where we disagree.
He lied a lot and lots of contradictions in the Koran, tons, I just read it from front to back, very poorly written there is no flow and no chronology, also very arrogant, lots of jealosy towards Jews. Muhammad is a false prophet, dude wake up.
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« Reply #234 on: October 07, 2012, 10:39:27 AM »

You just made a lot of statements that hold no weight.

You didn't read the qur'an front to back as you illustrated it through your statements.

Also it was the Jews who recognized Muhammad to be a prophet of God but the ones who rejected him rejected him out of jealousy and arrogance/pride. They did not want to accept him as he was not a Jew. There is no such thing as 'jealousy of the jews' in islam or in the qur'an. Your own made up beliefs.

You even claimed the qur'an has verses ridiculing or attacking Jesus. I asked you to provide them you ignored my request. You will only find such a thing in the Jewish Talmud.

The qur'an is the most beautiful thing in the world. If it were from a man it would indeed have contradictions. It has none. Only your lack of understanding and lack of reading continued by lying.

Allah says in the qur'an people like you will try to extinguish the light of Allah with your mouths but Allah will fulfill and spread the light even if you detest it. And indeed the more you attack Islam, the more people actually want to learn about Islam (Like I was one post 911) and embrace Islam.
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #235 on: October 07, 2012, 10:41:29 AM »

Converted because his father told him that "Islam is of the devil" lol

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dqUO5ApGm0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dqUO5ApGm0</a>
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« Reply #236 on: October 07, 2012, 10:50:53 AM »

What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).
Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
"And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).
The first Muslim was Muhammad?  Abraham?  Jacob? Moses?
"And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
"When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
"And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).
Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?
Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48).  Also 4:116
The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority," (4:153).
Are Allah's decrees changed or not?
"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106).
When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).
Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?
"We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)!  This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!"  So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).
Is wine consumption good or bad?
O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).
(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).
Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).
 

This is 1% of the contradictions, actually less, but i will not waste my time anymore, I already wasted my time reading a pointless arrogant text made up by a wild imagination of a false prophet
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« Reply #237 on: October 07, 2012, 10:54:30 AM »

lol do you have a brain to think for yourself or do you go to islamophobe websites that spoon feed you ignorance and you copy paste huge chunks of ridiculous text?

All this shows me that you have not actually read the qur'an and are merely lying Smiley

The qur'an says we are created from water, ground/earth/soil, etc... from a sperm, none of these are contradictions. It's just your lack of thought. All are true if you think.

When God says to us that we are from the soil of the earth, it makes total sense, our bodies are composed of elements found in this planet. When God says we are created from water, we know all life stems from water and will not exist without water. Our bodies are majorly composed of water. When God says He created us from a drop of sperm, He is not lying. He reminds us that we began from something so insignificant yet we grow up to be so arrogant and haughty against God.

Likewise God reminds us that if we are made from soil, and when we pass away we will return to that soil. It is to humble us and remind us.
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« Reply #238 on: October 07, 2012, 11:00:05 AM »

lol do you have a brain to think for yourself or do you go to islamophobe websites and copy paste huge chunks of ridiculous text?

The qur'an says we are created from water, ground/earth, etc... from a sperm, none of these are contradictions. It's just your lack of thought. All are true if you think.

When God says to us that we are from the soil of the earth, it makes total sense, our bodies are composed of elements found in this planet. When God says we are created from water, we know all life stems from water and will not exist without water. Our bodies are majorly composed of water. When God says He created us from a drop of sperm, He is not lying. He reminds us that we began from something so insignificant yet we grow up to be so arrogant and haughty against God.
hahaha do you think I have time to spend writing this, lol, everyone cuts and pastes, including you, doesn't take away from the fact that these are real contradictions. The Koran is fake bro face it.
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« Reply #239 on: October 07, 2012, 11:17:10 AM »

No I paste verses because they are not my utterance, however I think and I write on my own. You cannot think for yourself and you have not taken the time to actually read the qur'an. You let someone else an islamophobe website or blog think for you. The only thing that's fake are your fake premises.
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« Reply #240 on: October 07, 2012, 11:31:58 AM »

No I paste verses because they are not my utterance, however I think and I write on my own. You cannot think for yourself and you have not taken the time to actually read the qur'an. You let someone else an islamophobe website or blog think for you. The only thing that's fake are your fake premises.
Look at you melting down, keep to the subject pal
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« Reply #241 on: October 07, 2012, 11:37:11 AM »

hahaha do you think I have time to spend writing this, lol, everyone cuts and pastes, including you, doesn't take away from the fact that these are real contradictions. The Koran is fake bro face it.

There's not a single actual contradiction in there.  If you read the copy-and-pasted text you'll realize this.  Some apply to different situations, others are in addition to, but not in replacement of, other verses, and therefore both verses can be true.

I've seen anti-Christian websites but I never use their thoughts unless I read and understand them for myself first, and if they make sense to me.  One way of showing that it makes sense to you is to put something in your own words, and specifically to show a contradiction, you have to explain why it is unreasonable for both verses to be true.  For example here are a few which are clear, black and white contradictions and its not reasonable for both versus to be true:

How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
(a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26).
(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2).

When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?
(a) One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4).
(b) Seven thousand (1 Chronicles 18:4).

In what year of King Asa’’s reign did Baasha, King of Israel die?
(a) Twenty-sixth year (1 Kings 15:33 - 16:8 ).
(b) Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1).

Who killed Goliath?
(a) David (1 Samuel 17:23, 50).
(b) Elhanan (2 Samuel 21:19).
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« Reply #242 on: October 07, 2012, 11:47:33 AM »

There's not a single actual contradiction in there.  If you read the copy-and-pasted text you'll realize this.  Some apply to different situations, others are in addition to, but not in replacement of, other verses, and therefore both verses can be true.

I've seen anti-Christian websites but I never use their thoughts unless I read and understand them for myself first, and if they make sense to me.  One way of showing that it makes sense to you is to put something in your own words, and specifically to show a contradiction, you have to explain why it is unreasonable for both verses to be true.  For example here are a few which are clear, black and white contradictions and its not reasonable for both versus to be true:

How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
(a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26).
(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2).

When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?
(a) One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4).
(b) Seven thousand (1 Chronicles 18:4).

In what year of King Asa’’s reign did Baasha, King of Israel die?
(a) Twenty-sixth year (1 Kings 15:33 - 16:Cool.
(b) Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1).

Who killed Goliath?
(a) David (1 Samuel 17:23, 50).
(b) Elhanan (2 Samuel 21:19).


lol, shows how much you know, lol, Goliath is a last name and Goliath had 5 brothers they where all called Goliath, LMAO
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« Reply #243 on: October 07, 2012, 12:03:56 PM »

lol, shows how much you know, lol, Goliath is a last name and Goliath had 5 brothers they where all called Goliath, LMAO

And you know these are referring to two different Goliath's or is that just a guess?  I can look further into it to check myself as well.

There are also three others that I included in my post, and many others that I could have.  However, my point was simply to show the difference between a clear-cut contradiction where its logically impossible for both verses to be true, versus the type you pasted from the anti-Islamic website that are not even actual contradictions but a weak, desperate attempt by an Islamophobe Smiley
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« Reply #244 on: October 07, 2012, 12:12:00 PM »

And you know these are referring to two different Goliath's or is that just a guess?  I can look further into it to check myself as well.

There are also three others that I included in my post, and many others that I could have.  However, my point was simply to show the difference between a clear-cut contradiction where its logically impossible for both verses to be true, versus the type you pasted from the anti-Islamic website that are not even actual contradictions but a weak, desperate attempt by an Islamophobe Smiley
Bro I study ancient text and I am a historian, have studied every thing from the Summerians, Egyptions, Babylonions, Assyrian, Persians, Greeks and Romans and have read every major manuscript from antiquity, trust me Goliath had 5 brothers and they where all called Goliath. Elhanan killed Goliath's brother, this is a fact, not even up for debate.
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« Reply #245 on: October 07, 2012, 12:13:19 PM »

“Forty and two years old” or “Twenty-two years old” in 2 Chronicles 22:2?
The KJV follows the Masoretic reading. Most modern translators speculate that the Masoretic text is in error, seeing that 2 Kings 8:26 says that Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he began to reign. However, Kings is known to focus on both Israel and Judah whereas Chronicles is known to focus primarily on Judah. A startling fact is that Chronicles rarely mentions the infamous reign of King Ahab of Israel except only in passing. Queen Jezebel of Israel is never mentioned in Chronicles. Since Chronicles focuses on Judah, Chronicles gives the age (forty-two) at which Ahaziah began to reign from the time that he was the king of Judah. However, Kings, which focuses on both Israel and Judah, gives the age (twenty-two) at which Ahaziah began to reign from the time that he was the co-regent of Israel. Since Chronicles does not focus on Israel, its account neglects the twenty years of Ahaziah’s co-regency in Israel.

The different focus of each author

2 Kings 8:26 says,
"Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem."
2 Chronicles 22:2 says,
"Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem."
Both accounts specify that he reigned one year "in Jerusalem" but neither specify where he "began to reign." Thus we must gather from the context where exactly Ahaziah began to reign in each of these accounts. In 2 Kings the focus is on Israel, so Ahaziah "began to reign" (as co-regent) in Israel at the age of 22. In 2 Chronicles the focus is on Judah, so Ahaziah "began to reign" in Judah at the age of 42.
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« Reply #246 on: October 07, 2012, 12:27:20 PM »

Now the second one on you weak list  Grin  is simple

A chariot consists of 9 horsemen, so 1000 chariots = 6300 horsemen + the 700 single horsemen = 7000 horsement

2 different authors

one said 1000 chariots and 700 horsemen (this author didn't feel the need to include the horsemen on the chariots)

The other said 1000 chariots and 7000 horsemen ( this author felt the need to include each of the 9 horsemen on the chariots)

What makes me laugh here is you obviously lack some historical knowledge and this is where my history pays off. See, these book where written nearly 400 years apart, that would make 2 different era's, in one era when they talked about chariots, everyone knew to assume the man power automatically. in the other era it was not common knowledge at the time to assume the number of men on each chariot so one has state the number of chariots and also the number of men.

The author always caters to the time they are living in.
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« Reply #247 on: October 07, 2012, 12:27:34 PM »

You know you open a can of whoop ass when you start talking about 'contradictions', the bible is the biggest contradiction as it is not revealed through God as the qur'an was.

All that you posted about the qur'an are not contradictions I just touched on the water/soil/sperm/etc... example.

When it comes to the bible... apparently God can't do simple arithmetic. I have somewhere in my email scans of my bible where I highlighted contradictions in the same paragraphs, forget different chapters.

Anyways... don't waste your time bobs. Clearly this guy is not willing to read the qur'an.
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« Reply #248 on: October 07, 2012, 12:35:28 PM »

You know you open a can of whoop ass when you start talking about 'contradictions', the bible is the biggest contradiction as it is not revealed through God as the qur'an was.

All that you posted about the qur'an are not contradictions I just touched on the water/soil/sperm/etc... example.

When it comes to the bible... apparently God can't do simple arithmetic. I have somewhere in my email scans of my bible where I highlighted contradictions in the same paragraphs, forget different chapters.

Anyways... don't waste your time bobs. Clearly this guy is not willing to read the qur'an.
You saying I did not read it does not make it so. The Koran has more contradictions then any other ancient text I have read and I have read them all. The Bible does not contradict itself but only a true historian will know this since the authors are in some cases 2000 years apart and it covers over 100 different nations and times, so it may appear to contradict itself but upon careful historical comparisons you will find no contradictions.

BY ALL MEANS, KEEP THEM COMING, i WILL ADDRESS THEM ALL

Bro these are friendly debates, stop letting your emotions get the best of you. It's making you look bad brother  Embarrassed
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« Reply #249 on: October 07, 2012, 01:27:42 PM »

Oh wow... this is getting funnier by the nanosecond. It's almost too much lolz!
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