Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
October 22, 2014, 06:02:56 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 12   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: The bible and the trinity (or lack of it)  (Read 7668 times)
a_ahmed
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5798


Team Nasser


« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2012, 05:04:37 PM »

Well God is eternal and there is nothing before God. This is a fundemental belief of monotheism. Otherwise God seizes to be God or then it's a false deity you are speaking of.

God has NO beginning and NO end. He is eternal. The 'alpha and omega' conjecture is latin. There is no such thing in aramaic, arabic or hebrew. Jesus spoke Aramaic which was the language of Palestine.

God is the absolute first and last, in the sense that he is eternal.

When God resurects everyone he will cause all to die when he asks who is the master of this day and everyone including the angels and even the angel of death will die. And God will answer himself to this rhetorical question and revive everyone. God is the one that created us all and gave us all life.

Jesus had a beginning and is not eternal. He was created by God as Adam was created by God. The only difference is Jesus had a mother. Jesus had to eat, he had to sleep, he was injured, bleeding.

When God says in the old testament that there is nothing that resembles God in creation... it is pretty clear that Jesus is not God. And God is certainly eternal never changing as again the old testament testifies this.

Jesus therefore is like any other human being who needs sleep, food, has blood and bleeds, can be injured, and has need of God. He just happens to be chosen by God to serve God.
Report to moderator   Logged
Man of Steel
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15185


Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15


WWW
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2012, 07:49:16 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5j4DIellR4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5j4DIellR4</a>
Report to moderator   Logged

a_ahmed
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5798


Team Nasser


« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2012, 08:12:54 PM »

There is no such thing as luck Smiley And I wouldn't put my faith in 'luck'.

What is it in your heart that is preventing you from denouncing falsehood and lies against God and embracing the eternal truth of God? Petty benefit of this world? Fear of people?

God's reward is eternal... and the suffering of this world temporary. God is the most merciful and most compassionate.

Lying against God is a great sin.. and misleading others away from the truth of God.

You keep silent on the verses which tear apart the trinity in the bible. And you turn a blind eye to the verses which are forgeries of men which you cling onto for creed and resolution of faith..
Report to moderator   Logged
Man of Steel
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15185


Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15


WWW
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2012, 09:40:43 PM »

There is no such thing as luck Smiley And I wouldn't put my faith in 'luck'.

What is it in your heart that is preventing you from denouncing falsehood and lies against God and embracing the eternal truth of God? Petty benefit of this world? Fear of people?

God's reward is eternal... and the suffering of this world temporary. God is the most merciful and most compassionate.

Lying against God is a great sin.. and misleading others away from the truth of God.

You keep silent on the verses which tear apart the trinity in the bible. And you turn a blind eye to the verses which are forgeries of men which you cling onto for creed and resolution of faith..

I've experienced the risen Christ in my life.  I've experienced the power of the Holy Spirit.  I have no doubt about my salvation and who Jesus Christ is and what his gift of salvation means for my life and eternity.  Some of the things you say about God are completely correct and others are not.  

Why don't I address your posts point by point?  My experience with others is fairly simple and straightforward....the loudest, brashest voice typically understands the least about that which they're exclaiming.  

As I stated before, the back and forth of this type is relatively pointless.  I can "Google Warrior" with the best of em.  For every online reference you post up I can find one that defends thoroughly and completely in the opposite and vice versa...ad nauseum.   Is that helpful for others?    

When I address others I ask myself "Would others recognize the qualities of God through my example? "  Reread your posts and tell me if you've represented God with love, compassion and mercy.

Have a good night/day.  
Report to moderator   Logged

a_ahmed
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5798


Team Nasser


« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2012, 08:00:20 AM »

Jesus was angry when he faced the crooks at the temple. Being angry against falsehood is a good characteristics. That does not mean that one is not merciful or compassionate. God is just and demands justice and will serve justice on the day of judgment.

So your argument and proof is still emotion?

You seem afraid to look at scripture, because if you look at scripture it destroys your belief of the trinity. I am not even talking qur'an, I am purely talking bible. The qur'an just re-affirms what I already found out and know.

Like I've said. I've had my own experiences, things that absolutely prove to me God is watching me. I've also had dreams like the one I've already mentioned of Jesus telling me that there is only one God. Now... you would not believe that why because you believe in trinitarianism.

Likewise, you having cited your example, I told you... even HINDUS who worship vishnu, krishna, hanuman and all sorts of idols and things will tell you they 'experienced things' in their life which affirm their faith.

Now are you going to argue that these idols are true or real? No. The irony with hindus is.. if you read THEIR scriptures it ALSO says do not make graven images of God. It also says God is one Smiley It's there.. lol... yet the brahman priests will say the people are 'too dumb' to understand God, so they need idols to get 'closer to God'.

As you can see yet again even in hinduism it is MEN who twist the truth just as the trinity is a lie forged by men.

So you are not bringing anything to the table except your emotion. You have faith but clearly you have no knowledge. Your faith is being misguided.

God watches over us, provides for us, ALL, whether we believe or disbelieve. He puts tests in front of us whether we believe or disbelieve. HE is the one that gives us our sustenance and tests us with it. He can give and take. This all regardless if you believe or disbelieve, regardless if you turn to idols or Him alone. BUT you will be in the end questioned for what you did and believed. As this life is meant but as a test and a short passing time. The angel of death does not discriminate young or old. If God decrees it that is it. We will all eventually return to God and be questioned.

You have no argument for the trinity as you know the scriptures are against you so you are resorting to emotion?
Report to moderator   Logged
Man of Steel
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15185


Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15


WWW
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2012, 08:03:56 PM »

Jesus was angry when he faced the crooks at the temple. Being angry against falsehood is a good characteristics. That does not mean that one is not merciful or compassionate. God is just and demands justice and will serve justice on the day of judgment.

So your argument and proof is still emotion?

You seem afraid to look at scripture, because if you look at scripture it destroys your belief of the trinity. I am not even talking qur'an, I am purely talking bible. The qur'an just re-affirms what I already found out and know.

Like I've said. I've had my own experiences, things that absolutely prove to me God is watching me. I've also had dreams like the one I've already mentioned of Jesus telling me that there is only one God. Now... you would not believe that why because you believe in trinitarianism.

Likewise, you having cited your example, I told you... even HINDUS who worship vishnu, krishna, hanuman and all sorts of idols and things will tell you they 'experienced things' in their life which affirm their faith.

Now are you going to argue that these idols are true or real? No. The irony with hindus is.. if you read THEIR scriptures it ALSO says do not make graven images of God. It also says God is one Smiley It's there.. lol... yet the brahman priests will say the people are 'too dumb' to understand God, so they need idols to get 'closer to God'.

As you can see yet again even in hinduism it is MEN who twist the truth just as the trinity is a lie forged by men.

So you are not bringing anything to the table except your emotion. You have faith but clearly you have no knowledge. Your faith is being misguided.

God watches over us, provides for us, ALL, whether we believe or disbelieve. He puts tests in front of us whether we believe or disbelieve. HE is the one that gives us our sustenance and tests us with it. He can give and take. This all regardless if you believe or disbelieve, regardless if you turn to idols or Him alone. BUT you will be in the end questioned for what you did and believed. As this life is meant but as a test and a short passing time. The angel of death does not discriminate young or old. If God decrees it that is it. We will all eventually return to God and be questioned.

You have no argument for the trinity as you know the scriptures are against you so you are resorting to emotion?

I'm not afraid to evaluate or discuss scripture....I've done it time and time and time and time again on these boards.
Report to moderator   Logged

a_ahmed
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5798


Team Nasser


« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2012, 08:31:21 PM »

So what say you about the forgeries in the bible which dictate trinitarian doctrine?

One. Like I said it should show that the bible is not the absolute word of God as its presented by evangelists. It is clearly MANY writings put together, some included, some excluded deliberately.

Two. The many verses which are held as creed or basis for creed and trinitarianism are fabrications and forgeries, later deliberate additions. The story of the prostitute and not getting stoned is a deliberately fabricated story yet it is an important event, yet it is not true.
Report to moderator   Logged
Man of Steel
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15185


Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15


WWW
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2012, 08:22:32 AM »

The bible is actually the inspired word of God which contains many writings put together, some included, some excluded with definite, deliberate, inspired purpose.

I addressed the "fabrications and forgeries" related to Mark and John in the other thread you started.

I can't speak to the story of the prostitute being a fabrication.

I like your shortcut approach in that you just deny all of Paul's writing as inspired from the outset and save yourself the trouble....no muss, no fuss.

Here'a 2+ hour discussion that you may review.  I enjoyed it, both speakers are very good.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni7-uluKCDQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni7-uluKCDQ</a>
 

Report to moderator   Logged

a_ahmed
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5798


Team Nasser


« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2012, 09:45:44 AM »

So in conclusion the bible is not the word of God. It is the word of men. Unreliable and formed from dissected selective writings. Some that CLAIM they are INSPIRED by God. WHO were these people? We cannot know for sure besides Paul. No names, no references, no last names (not to mention it is a strong semetic tradition to always indicate son of son of son of etc... when referencing people). The riddle continues. Not to mention the apocrypha which you don't care about you should. Writings the church deliberately ignored because they contradict the trinitarian non-sense.

You run circles around the facts of the verses that are known forgeries, so that you get out of trouble.

The trinity is a lie. God is one. God is not a man. Things that the old testament thought us from long before Paul came long with his blasphemies.

I've watched plenty of Shabir Ally, Ahmed deedat and non-muslim non-trinitarian debates on the subject to just reaffirm what I already have come to know.

The trinity was not once mentioned by Jesus himself even if we are to take Paul's writings as credible. Jesus kept emphasizing GOD is one, God is one in heaven, that only God knows the time of the hour, that Jesus himself or the angels do not. This by itself shows Jesus is not God.
Report to moderator   Logged
a_ahmed
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5798


Team Nasser


« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2012, 09:56:22 AM »

Paul's unreliable fake accounts of him witnessing and converting:

Quote
And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
—Acts 9:7, King James Version (KJV)
The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, for they heard the voice but could see no one.
—Acts 9:7, New American Bible (NAB)
The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone.
—Acts 9:7, New International Version (NIV)

And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
—Acts 22:9, King James Version (KJV)
My companions saw the light but did not hear the voice of the one who spoke to me.
—Acts 22:9, New American Bible (NAB)
My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me.
—Acts 22:9, New International Version (NIV)


An unreliable fraud
Report to moderator   Logged
Man of Steel
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15185


Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15


WWW
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2012, 10:38:01 AM »

Paul's unreliable fake accounts of him witnessing and converting:

An unreliable fraud

I now understand your claims of false, forgery, unreliable, etc....they're simply misguided.

You deny the conversion of Saul to Paul.  Nevermind those that were with Paul on the road to Damascus, nevermind his life changing witness for Christ, nevermind his suffering for Christ, nevermind his interaction with Christ's disciples....I guess nevermind all of it?

If you choose to continue insulting me that's perfectly fine....you aren't the first and won't be the last.   I'm saddened that you stand behind a false prophet of which beleivers were warned hundreds of years prior to cautious of.  Again, I'm happy to share my faith with you, share my experiences with you, pray with/for you and I have nothing against  you choosing to be a Muslim.  I don't agree with your choice, but it's your choice friend.  I also realize you aren't singling me out.  I'm just the only one that isn't ignoring you so you're unleashing on me. 

Report to moderator   Logged

Man of Steel
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15185


Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15


WWW
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2012, 10:41:20 AM »

So in conclusion the bible is not the word of God. It is the word of men. Unreliable and formed from dissected selective writings. Some that CLAIM they are INSPIRED by God. WHO were these people? We cannot know for sure besides Paul. No names, no references, no last names (not to mention it is a strong semetic tradition to always indicate son of son of son of etc... when referencing people). The riddle continues. Not to mention the apocrypha which you don't care about you should. Writings the church deliberately ignored because they contradict the trinitarian non-sense.

You run circles around the facts of the verses that are known forgeries, so that you get out of trouble.

The trinity is a lie. God is one. God is not a man. Things that the old testament thought us from long before Paul came long with his blasphemies.

I've watched plenty of Shabir Ally, Ahmed deedat and non-muslim non-trinitarian debates on the subject to just reaffirm what I already have come to know.

The trinity was not once mentioned by Jesus himself even if we are to take Paul's writings as credible. Jesus kept emphasizing GOD is one, God is one in heaven, that only God knows the time of the hour, that Jesus himself or the angels do not. This by itself shows Jesus is not God.
Correct, the inspired word of God.

I'm in no trouble whatsoever.  I have the blessed assurance of Christ's salvation in my life....full assurance in the heart.  Nothing special about me whatsoever, I'm just like you.

Not saying the word trinity doens't mean the trinity isn't there.
Report to moderator   Logged

a_ahmed
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5798


Team Nasser


« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2012, 10:47:30 AM »

You call Muhammad a false prophet? Yet he delivered people from darkness into light?

Paul and the romans destroyed God's law and brought people into the dark ages for a thousand years.

You shall know them by their fruits.

You keep ranting about being 'blessed' for worshipping Jesus a man.

God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? Numbers 23:19


"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Mark 13:32

"He withdrew about a stone's throw and prayed, 'Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done'" Luke 22:41-42


"Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, 'My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken away from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will'" Matthew 26:39 & Matthew 26:42


'Abba, Father,' he said, 'everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will" Mark 14:36



You bring great injustice upon Jesus by lying in his name

But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws.'Matthew 7:23


Unless you're implying God is bi-polar and that God goes back on his word, deceives, lies and changes his mind and is in fact a man... then these verses show that Jesus obeyed the will of God, was not God, not a man, and prayed to God.
Report to moderator   Logged
Man of Steel
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15185


Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15


WWW
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2012, 11:00:52 AM »

You call Muhammad a false prophet? Yet he delivered people from darkness into light?

Paul and the romans destroyed God's law and brought people into the dark ages for a thousand years.

You shall know them by their fruits.

You keep ranting about being 'blessed' for worshipping Jesus a man.

God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? Numbers 23:19


"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Mark 13:32

"He withdrew about a stone's throw and prayed, 'Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done'" Luke 22:41-42


"Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, 'My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken away from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will'" Matthew 26:39 & Matthew 26:42


'Abba, Father,' he said, 'everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will" Mark 14:36



You bring great injustice upon Jesus by lying in his name

But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws.'Matthew 7:23


Unless you're implying God is bi-polar and that God goes back on his word, deceives, lies and changes his mind and is in fact a man... then these verses show that Jesus obeyed the will of God, was not God, not a man, and prayed to God.

Tell me about your relationship with Jesus Christ.
Report to moderator   Logged

Thick Nick
Competitors
Getbig IV
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 2208


"Some want to look good, others want to do good."


« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2012, 11:57:41 AM »

Ahmed... are you silly enough to think that the Koran was never manipulated or altered as you claim the Christian bible has been? Here is the main difference between modern Muslims and modern Christians... both believe they are right... both believe the other is wrong... but if I say the Bible is crap no one wants to cut my head off. How does it make you feel when I say the only thing I would ever do with the Koran is rip out the pages and wipe my ass on them? If I said that right to your face? Islam has no turn the other cheek which makes them barbarians no matter what has happened in the past, one religion changed and one didn't. Guess which one is still living on the stone ages?
Report to moderator   Logged

$
a_ahmed
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5798


Team Nasser


« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2012, 01:17:33 PM »

The qur'an is as it was revealed 1400 years ago.

Every qur'an in existence is the same. Pick up any qur'an of today and it is the same.

On the other hand the bible not only fails this litmus test, it even has arithmetic errors. Are you going to call God poor at math? It just shows that it has been mendled by human hands as the qur'an indicates and as us Muslims know and believe.

To be Muslim we must accept and acknowledge the revelations, The torah, Gospel as revealed to Jesus, David's zabur (psalms), etc... but we acknowledge that men have changed their for their petty worldly gains.

You will not find a single qur'an differ. On the other hand, biblical scripture (I am not even talking about translations which are erronous on another level) differ in some crucial issues especially when it comes to doctrine and verses from which doctrine is derived from.
Report to moderator   Logged
a_ahmed
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5798


Team Nasser


« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2012, 01:18:45 PM »

Ahmed... are you silly enough to think that the Koran was never manipulated or altered as you claim the Christian bible has been? Here is the main difference between modern Muslims and modern Christians... both believe they are right... both believe the other is wrong... but if I say the Bible is crap no one wants to cut my head off. How does it make you feel when I say the only thing I would ever do with the Koran is rip out the pages and wipe my ass on them? If I said that right to your face? Islam has no turn the other cheek which makes them barbarians no matter what has happened in the past, one religion changed and one didn't. Guess which one is still living on the stone ages?

"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" (Gospel of Matthew 10:34)

Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it. (Matthew 10:34–39 NASB)


The funny thing is, 'cross' was something that later christians idolized. Pretty ironic to find this verse the way it is, isn't it?


Do they not then consider the Qur'an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradictions.  Surah An-Nisa' 82 (The Women)

Report to moderator   Logged
Man of Steel
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15185


Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15


WWW
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2012, 10:32:28 AM »

"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" (Gospel of Matthew 10:34)

Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it. (Matthew 10:34–39 NASB)


The funny thing is, 'cross' was something that later christians idolized. Pretty ironic to find this verse the way it is, isn't it?


Do they not then consider the Qur'an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradictions.  Surah An-Nisa' 82 (The Women)



Christ came to collect his church....his body of believers.  That's what that verse means.
Report to moderator   Logged

a_ahmed
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5798


Team Nasser


« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2012, 10:34:51 AM »

There was no such thing as a 'church' until the 'church' happened.

There was Synagogues and Jewish temples as Jesus himself preached in.

What that verse means is that he has come to turn even family against each other, so that those that believe in God and obey his messenger are evident and those that are treacherous like the rabbis of that time who were after the wealth of this world and power. Corrupt.

The only good life to lead is one in belief and obedience of God.
Report to moderator   Logged
Man of Steel
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15185


Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15


WWW
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2012, 11:40:31 AM »

The qur'an is as it was revealed 1400 years ago.

Every qur'an in existence is the same. Pick up any qur'an of today and it is the same.

On the other hand the bible not only fails this litmus test, it even has arithmetic errors. Are you going to call God poor at math? It just shows that it has been mendled by human hands as the qur'an indicates and as us Muslims know and believe.

To be Muslim we must accept and acknowledge the revelations, The torah, Gospel as revealed to Jesus, David's zabur (psalms), etc... but we acknowledge that men have changed their for their petty worldly gains.

You will not find a single qur'an differ. On the other hand, biblical scripture (I am not even talking about translations which are erronous on another level) differ in some crucial issues especially when it comes to doctrine and verses from which doctrine is derived from.

As the story goes, the Qur'an was delivered directly from Allah by the angel Gabriel and was then recited to the prophet Mohammed by the angel Gabriel.  Due to Mohammed's illiteracy he memorized the entire text and then worked with a group of scribes to put the entire memorized message into written form over a 20+ year period all under his complete direction.  All that said, the Qur'an was tranferred into print by a group of scribles from a single source....Mohammed.  IMHO, of course it's perfectly preserved and untampered with, it came from one source....in my estimation that makes its transfer to print far less impressive.  Further, it has not one single, external, corroborating source to defend any of its tenets.  In addition, it came into being some 500-600 years after the bible was in full canonical form.  Now I certainly believe in God providing divine revelation to certain people....especially unlikely people.  Although, the Islamic denial of Christ as the resurrected Lord I simply can't ignore.  Labeling Christ as simply a prophet who takes second fiddle to Mohammed just screams "red flag" for a believer (for a nonbeliever they find all religion to be nonsense).  Christians don't deny certain arithmetic differences in scripture...the 10, 11, 12 disciple count for example is mere minutia and takes nothing from the core of Christ and his resurrection.  Christians know who wrote the inspired gospels and the NT...there's very little discussion in that regard, but it takes absolute blind faith to trust in the words of Mohammed no matter how beautifully they may be written.  He may not have been able to read or write, but he could certainly think and talk and did so for 20 years to his scribes who then crafted his words for him.  And of course they took no liberties during their dictation correct?
Report to moderator   Logged

Man of Steel
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15185


Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15


WWW
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2012, 11:41:12 AM »

There was no such thing as a 'church' until the 'church' happened.

There was Synagogues and Jewish temples as Jesus himself preached in.

What that verse means is that he has come to turn even family against each other, so that those that believe in God and obey his messenger are evident and those that are treacherous like the rabbis of that time who were after the wealth of this world and power. Corrupt.

The only good life to lead is one in belief and obedience of God.

You know exactly what I'm saying...spinning it changes nothing.  Christ did not come to incite a riot between family members.  He came for his believers....sometimes that was entire families, sometimes it was individual members of a family that choose to follow Christ.  

I absolutely agree with your last statement though.
Report to moderator   Logged

a_ahmed
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5798


Team Nasser


« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2012, 01:05:13 PM »

No you are the one spinning the meaning actually. You want to see what is not there. Just as you will 'see' the trinity in the old testament but its not there only your wishful conjecture.
Report to moderator   Logged
a_ahmed
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5798


Team Nasser


« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2012, 01:40:26 PM »

As the story goes, the Qur'an was delivered directly from Allah by the angel Gabriel and was then recited to the prophet Mohammed by the angel Gabriel.  Due to Mohammed's illiteracy he memorized the entire text and then worked with a group of scribes to put the entire memorized message into written form over a 20+ year period all under his complete direction.  All that said, the Qur'an was tranferred into print by a group of scribles from a single source....Mohammed.  IMHO, of course it's perfectly preserved and untampered with, it came from one source....in my estimation that makes its transfer to print far less impressive.  

Wow, I'm baffled. So we know whom this was revealed to and its perfectly preserved from more than 1400 years ago. And you find this MEH?

On the other hand the bible is riddled with forgeries and words of various men, scribes, historians, rabbis, God, prophets, unknowns, frauds and that to you is more impressive? Not to mention other works are deliberately not included (apocrypha). Not impressive at all. Just very non-credible.

Quote
Further, it has not one single, external, corroborating source to defend any of its tenets.  In addition, it came into being some 500-600 years after the bible was in full canonical form.  Now I certainly believe in God providing divine revelation to certain people....especially unlikely people.

God is the one that defends it and affirms it and ultimately has today preserved it.

It reaffirms what was BEFORE and continous the same message. While paul a no body, claimed to have visions and sounds and RADICALLY changed the message of God and turned a monotheistic religion into a triunetheistic religion worshipping a MAN who is supposedly GOD and committed suicide on a cross to 'save mankind' so that sins are forgiven. Wait what?

So what if there is a 500-600-700- whatever time difference? God ALWAYS sent messengers and prophets to people because they DEVIATED from the original message. That is why we have so many off shoot religions, sects, groups, etc.. God is one and has one eternal message to all mankind. It is MEN who deviate because they follow their vain desires and not God's commandments.

Each time these prophets came back to educate mankind... but again and again people slowly deviate.

Jesus was sent to the children of Jacob/Israel... as they deviated yet again. They had the law, yet they did not have faith. Hence Jesus' focus on emotion/faith and not just the law, although he said he has not come to abolish it but to enact it. And he repeated the most important statement given to Jews. Hear oh Israel, your Lord God is one Lord.

Quote
 Although, the Islamic denial of Christ as the resurrected Lord I simply can't ignore.  Labeling Christ as simply a prophet who takes second fiddle to Mohammed just screams "red flag" for a believer (for a nonbeliever they find all religion to be nonsense).  

That's because you are blindly following your desires. There is no 'red flag'. Your beliefs are what are a 'red flag' you go away completely from the original teaching of all the past prophets and of Jesus himself. You radically change into following this unknown Paul and the romans.

Quote
Christians don't deny certain arithmetic differences in scripture...the 10, 11, 12 disciple count for example is mere minutia and takes nothing from the core of Christ and his resurrection.  Christians know who wrote the inspired gospels and the NT...there's very little discussion in that regard,

No they don't. They are unknown authors. Attributed mostly to paul's own writings.

Quote
but it takes absolute blind faith to trust in the words of Mohammed no matter how beautifully they may be written.  He may not have been able to read or write, but he could certainly think and talk and did so for 20 years to his scribes who then crafted his words for him.  And of course they took no liberties during their dictation correct?

No actually, it takes a BRAIN to rationally believe in what he revealed. It takes blind faith to believe that Jesus was God, a man, and committed suicide on the cross saved mankind and we are now sin free. Total non-sense.

Muhammad preached what all the past prophets preached. God is one. Eternal. Forgiving and merciful but also stern in punishment. There is no contradiction or deviation only firmness and principle.

For 23 years the non-muslim arabs persecuted Muhammad and his companions but God's speech prevails over the lies of men who slander God almighty.
Report to moderator   Logged
Man of Steel
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15185


Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15


WWW
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2012, 02:45:12 PM »

No you are the one spinning the meaning actually. You want to see what is not there. Just as you will 'see' the trinity in the old testament but its not there only your wishful conjecture.

No spinning....that's just what it means LOL!
Report to moderator   Logged

Man of Steel
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15185


Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15


WWW
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2012, 02:46:08 PM »

Wow, I'm baffled. So we know whom this was revealed to and its perfectly preserved from more than 1400 years ago. And you find this MEH?

On the other hand the bible is riddled with forgeries and words of various men, scribes, historians, rabbis, God, prophets, unknowns, frauds and that to you is more impressive? Not to mention other works are deliberately not included (apocrypha). Not impressive at all. Just very non-credible.

God is the one that defends it and affirms it and ultimately has today preserved it.

It reaffirms what was BEFORE and continous the same message. While paul a no body, claimed to have visions and sounds and RADICALLY changed the message of God and turned a monotheistic religion into a triunetheistic religion worshipping a MAN who is supposedly GOD and committed suicide on a cross to 'save mankind' so that sins are forgiven. Wait what?

So what if there is a 500-600-700- whatever time difference? God ALWAYS sent messengers and prophets to people because they DEVIATED from the original message. That is why we have so many off shoot religions, sects, groups, etc.. God is one and has one eternal message to all mankind. It is MEN who deviate because they follow their vain desires and not God's commandments.

Each time these prophets came back to educate mankind... but again and again people slowly deviate.

Jesus was sent to the children of Jacob/Israel... as they deviated yet again. They had the law, yet they did not have faith. Hence Jesus' focus on emotion/faith and not just the law, although he said he has not come to abolish it but to enact it. And he repeated the most important statement given to Jews. Hear oh Israel, your Lord God is one Lord.

That's because you are blindly following your desires. There is no 'red flag'. Your beliefs are what are a 'red flag' you go away completely from the original teaching of all the past prophets and of Jesus himself. You radically change into following this unknown Paul and the romans.

No they don't. They are unknown authors. Attributed mostly to paul's own writings.

No actually, it takes a BRAIN to rationally believe in what he revealed. It takes blind faith to believe that Jesus was God, a man, and committed suicide on the cross saved mankind and we are now sin free. Total non-sense.

Muhammad preached what all the past prophets preached. God is one. Eternal. Forgiving and merciful but also stern in punishment. There is no contradiction or deviation only firmness and principle.

For 23 years the non-muslim arabs persecuted Muhammad and his companions but God's speech prevails over the lies of men who slander God almighty.

When I have a bit more time I'll read this longer response....thx!
Report to moderator   Logged

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 12   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Theme created by Egad Community. Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!