So an average male 18-35 only produces 4-7 mgs of test a day?

[Borracho]

Really?

lol

I thought it was a lot more....that means about 50mgs a week in the higher range and it goes through peaks day in day out where as injectable testosterone would be more stable.

So is this natural test assimilated better than exogenous testosterone??

Just a little surprised that someone injecting 500mgs a week is already about 10 times above what an average male produces and hrt is at 250mgs (5X) at a minimum right ?? ....or do docs go with a 50mg a week in shots most of the time?

 

[howardroark]

Don't forget the ester weight.

[lyquid]

Doesn't work that way . Some guys on hrt 250 every week puts them just at baseline levels. Specially as you get older guys on hrt need to keep upping there dose just to get them normal levels,

[Borracho]

Oh....now it makes sense. 

 

[JAM]

Really?

lol

I thought it was a lot more....that's means about 50mgs a week in the higher range and it goes through peaks day in day out where as injectable testosterone would be more stable.

So is this natural test assimilated better than exogenous testosterone??

Just a little surprised that someone injecting 500mgs a week is already about 10 times above what an average male produces and hrt is at 250mgs (5X) at a minimum right ?? ....or do docs go with a 50mg a week in shots most of the time?

 

From what I have read yes this bold part is true and it varies with age.  Being an average is 4-10mg of test per day most HRT docs will prescribe around 100mg per week.  Minus the ester weight as mentioned it is probably right around 70mg per week of actual test.  Some docs will go up to around 250mg if the patient doesn't respond well and needs a higher does to get their numbers up.  I have never heard of higher doses than 250mg per week from any of my buddies that are on HRT.

[Oly15]

Doesn't work that way . Some guys on hrt 250 every week puts them just at baseline levels. Specially as you get older guys on hrt need to keep upping there dose just to get them normal levels,

What do you mean by this? Whatever amount you are injecting is the amt that goes into the body and used no matter what age. Unless it is true that as you age the body doesn't use/assimilate testosterone as well? Is this true and maybe why HGH works so synergistically with test?

[OTHstrong]

Doesn't work that way . Some guys on hrt 250 every week puts them just at baseline levels. Specially as you get older guys on hrt need to keep upping there dose just to get them normal levels,

Of course I agree that it does not work that way, however 250mg a week will be above normal levels for anyone, not by much but it is slightly more

[lyquid]

Of course I agree that it does not work that way, however 250mg a week will be above normal levels for anyone, not by much but it is slightly more

I frequent hrt forums myself and there are many men over 70 yrs old who are on 250mg a week and there. Doctors are debating upping.it even.more since there still not in normal range. There was one guy on here even same situation. Your body just doesn't use it as well as we age obviously it seems.  AMD almost all. Guys on.those hrt forums are prescribed. Armidex and finasteride as well so its not that most of.the test is spilling over into those two categories. But maybe there's other pathways who knows either way some guys need more some less to.get them normal range if it.was set in stone than doctors would be able to tell us ok his 100 mg shot once a week is gonna get you 1000ng test levels for everyone but it doesn't some.only end up in 600ng rqnge

[OTHstrong]

hm , lets count this one out.bc i think its much above natural level.

ok, 250mg weekly.minus 70mg bc of ester.thatll be say 180mg in bloodstream weekly.

now considring the release speed and half worth time of 14 days, thatll still be 90mg in the bloodstream, thats at least 3 times the natural amount.for some, even 5 times.however, the 90mg figure is very conservative, itll rather be something like 120mg imo.

but yes, 250 mg weekly dont mean there will be 250mg free test in the blood every week.

whatever it is, in the real world, as far as lifting goes, 250mg weekly feels like 10 times better than natural.

agree

[darkrid3r]

Is there not bio-avaliability as well here, just because you put in 500 does not mean there is 500 in the blood.
Calculate out half lifes, figure out how much is getting converted then you have 3 different levels.

This is why a testosterone test is split into parts, free test, whole test etc.

I think how I convert test and how YOU convert test is different, such I could be on 125 but you on 250. It all boils down to serum levels does it not?
There is a range, and that range is just that, a range......

[Jovo]

It would depend on how much shbg you have too, no ? also estro/test ratio.

after being off gear for a while my levels were so fucking low i would need to be on trt, but my estro was low too and im guessing shbg was not a problem, also depends on alot of things i guess, because at the levels i measured i should not be getting boners, let alone getting morning wood and ripping clothes of chicks i see in the mall, in my head, lol !

I think age has alot to do with it, i can't imagine not being able to get a hard on.

[tbombz]

one shot of 250mg test has a dispersion rate of something like:

day 1: 30mg
day 2: 28mg
day 3: 26mg
day 4: 24mg
day 5: 21mg
day 6: 18mg
day 7: 14mg
day 8: 11mg
day 9: 8mg
day 10: 5mg
day 11: 4mg
day 12: 2mg
day 13: 1mg
day 14: ~1mg




dont quote me on the exact mg per day but that is a very close representation to the average dispersion rate. i could find you guys the exact numbers if you want them. but for now ill just post that because there seemed to be a bit of confusion above about how this worked.

[Jovo]

one shot of 250mg test has a dispersion rate of something like:

day 1: 30mg
day 2: 28mg
day 3: 26mg
day 4: 24mg
day 5: 21mg
day 6: 18mg
day 7: 14mg
day 8: 11mg
day 9: 8mg
day 10: 5mg
day 11: 4mg
day 12: 2mg
day 13: 1mg
day 14: ~1mg




dont quote me on the exact mg per day but that is a very close representation to the average dispersion rate. i could find you guys the exact numbers if you want them. but for now ill just post that because there seemed to be a bit of confusion above about how this worked.

is this test base or prop/enthen

[tbombz]

is this test base or prop/enthen

enanthate

here:

"According to basic pharmacology, a single dose of 250mg of testosterone enanthate will deliver the parent hormone at it’s highest values the first 10 days; around 31, 27, 23, 20, 18, 15, 13, 12, 10 and nine milligrams, respectfully. After 10 days, the amounts released become negligible. Actual amounts are affected by the injection site and technique, personal differences in physiology and the sites body fat levels."


im trying to find you an academic source to back this up.  i got it off warriorfx.com but the guy didnt give a source.



this PDF for pfizer's depot-testosterone= http://www.pfizer.ca/en/our_products/products/monograph/182

"In a randomized cross-over study of six healthy males aged 20-29 years of age, the
pharmacokinetics of a single injection of 200 mg testosterone cypionate was compared to that of a
single injection of 194 mg testosterone enanthate. Mean serum testosterone concentrations
increased sharply to 3 times the basal levels (approximately 1350 ng/dl) at 24 hours and declined
gradually to basal levels (approximately 500 ng/dl) by day 10."

[tbombz]

id say propionate.

enanthate and cypionate have half worth time of 14 to 17 days.

if you injected 250mg of prop the entirety of that bolus would be released, absorbed, metabolised and excreted within 3-4 days.

[tbombz]

no problem 

[OTHstrong]

one shot of 250mg test has a dispersion rate of something like:

day 1: 30mg
day 2: 28mg
day 3: 26mg
day 4: 24mg
day 5: 21mg
day 6: 18mg
day 7: 14mg
day 8: 11mg
day 9: 8mg
day 10: 5mg
day 11: 4mg
day 12: 2mg
day 13: 1mg
day 14: ~1mg




dont quote me on the exact mg per day but that is a very close representation to the average dispersion rate. i could find you guys the exact numbers if you want them. but for now ill just post that because there seemed to be a bit of confusion above about how this worked.

Wow, you finally got something right

Good post

[Borracho]

 Ok Tbomz maybe you can answer this for me. Suppose a male who produces/converts testostosterone at the average level that a 31 year old does, has some prop and simply wants to replace natural levels...what is the minimal amount that person should inject?   

[OTHstrong]

Ok Tbomz maybe you can answer this for me. Suppose a male who produces/converts testostosterone at the average level that a 31 year old does, has some prop and simply wants to replace natural levels...what is the minimal amount that person should inject?   

To replace and just replace natural levels with prop is a bad idea and here is why. Prop has a short life so needs to be injected at the very least EOD, I think a half a cc EOD would do it (this would be the minimum), assuming the prop is 100 mg per cc, by why pin so much when you don't have to, instead of pinning 4 times the prop, you could pin 1 shot of test E and this would also replace your test levels.

[Borracho]

To replace and just replace natural levels with prop is a bad idea and here is why. Prop has a short life so needs to be injected at the very least EOD, I think a half a cc EOD would do it (this would be the minimum), assuming the prop is 100 mg per cc, by why pin so much when you don't have to, instead of pinning 4 times the prop, you could pin 1 shot of test E and this would also replace your test levels.

I'm thinking more along the lines if someone where running higher doses of other aas and just wanted the minimum test dose for health benefits. So pinning wouldn't be the issue since you'd be pinning something anyway.

Still....probably wouldn't be optimal to run the test that low would it?

[OTHstrong]

I'm thinking more along the lines if someone where running higher doses of other aas and just wanted the minimum test dose for health benefits. So pinning wouldn't be the issue since you'd be pinning something anyway.

Still....probably wouldn't be optimal to run the test that low would it?

Well if you are going to do it, you might as well do a little bit more, maybe a full cc every other day

[Borracho]

Just curious why you'd say masteron...

Can it be a good replacement for test??

[OTHstrong]

Just curious why you'd say masteron...

Can it be a good replacement for test??

Test level are not altered by any other compound aside from test, example if you take 200mg of d bol per day your test level will not go up, same with anadrol, tren, var, eq etc, nothing brings up test levels except test, however many have reported that Masteron could be the exception, some people have claimed that their test levels have risen when taking Masteron, I have not variffied this but if true masteron is the closes thing to test

[Borracho]

Test level are not altered by any other compound aside from test, example if you take 200mg of d bol per day your test level will not go up, same with anadrol, tren, var, eq etc, nothing brings up test levels except test, however many have reported that Masteron could be the exception, some people have claimed that their test levels have risen when taking Masteron, I have not variffied this but if true masteron is the closes thing to test

Interesting...I had no idea some people where experiencing this.