Author Topic: A pattern of diplomacy  (Read 3351 times)

Benny B

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A pattern of diplomacy
« on: September 12, 2012, 12:18:21 PM »
A pattern of diplomacy
By Steve Benen -  Wed Sep 12, 2012

After an obscure California real-estate developer posted an anti-Islam video on YouTube, a video that was then promoted by an obscure right-wing preacher in Florida, news of the video spread in the Middle East. Hours before protests reached any U.S. embassy or consulate, the U.S. Embassy in Egypt issued a 99-word statement:

"The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims -- as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others."

This, in Mitt Romney's mind, represents an "apology" from the Obama administration for "American values."

But there's a pattern of bipartisan diplomacy that's worth remembering here. Dave Weigel noted this morning, for example, that the Bush/Cheney administration condemned European caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad in 2006, saying, ''We find them offensive, and we certainly understand why Muslims would find these images offensive.''

Two years later, President Bush apologized to Iraq's prime minister for an American sniper's shooting of a Quran.
In 2011, when that fringe Florida pastor caused riots abroad by announcing plans to burn Qurans, the U.S. Embassy in Cairo condemned the stunt, saying in a statement, "Since the founding of our nation, the United States has upheld the principles of tolerance and respect for religious freedom."

In Romney's mind, are all of these statements offensive? Do they all reflect "apologies" for "American values"? Is just being cravenly opportunistic now because he's down in the polls?

Or more to the point, if there's a Romney administration, will he refuse to engage in this kind of diplomacy?


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Benny B

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2012, 03:42:29 PM »
 :D :P

Sept 12, 2012

I’m sure you’ve heard by now that the US ambassador to Libya and three other staffers at the American Embassy there have been killed in an attack. The mob was irate over an anti-Muslim video publicized by crazy Pastor Terry Jones. Yes, the Koran burning guy! Not happy with setting Korans on fire, Terry Jones is trying to set the world on fire.

This attack should make us all relieved that Mitt Romney is not president. Unfortunately, he is a presidential candidate... giving him a platform to say stupid and destructive things. The Romney campaign’s statement said “It’s disgraceful that the Obama Administration's first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.” Really, Mitt? This is how you react to a delicate international incident as a candidate? Are we supposed to hope that your reaction as president would be any more helpful? What President Obama said was “While the United States rejects efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others, we must all unequivocally oppose the kind of senseless violence that took the lives of these public servants.” If you don’t understand that, Mitt, that’s because it’s presidential!  
 
This "movie" is a complete outrage—and I’m not even referring to its inflammatory content. It’s an outrage purely on the strength of its absolutely terrible movie-making. Guys! It is possible to spew hate without violating every rule of filmmaking! Watching this movie answers the question “What if director Ed Wood was an anti-Muslim lunatic?” All the Mohammed scenes take place in front of green-screen scenes of deserts that look like outtakes from “One Million Years BC.” Honestly, I kept waiting for Raquel Welch to run across the background in a loincloth being chased by a giant lizard. How can people riot over this crap? Don’t attack an embassy over this—just give it two thumbs down... or 5 rotten tomatoes.

Meanwhile, on 9/11 Dick Cheney said that President Obama tried to take “sole credit” for getting Osama bin Laden. Dick, if getting credit for killing bin Laden was so important to you, maybe you should have spent a little time trying to do it.


 
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dr.chimps

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2012, 03:47:07 PM »
He's a weakish pol chasing an incumbent for the highest office in the land, the question should be: 'what won't he say to get the Presidency?'   

Benny B

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2012, 04:21:29 PM »
He's a weakish pol chasing an incumbent for the highest office in the land, the question should be: 'what won't he say to get the Presidency?'   
Romney is really a weak, embarrassing phony. The guy has no core...just wants to be president for the sake of being president. Perhaps to fulfill his dad's missed opportunity?

Romney thinks he can win on the anti-Obama sentiment. Those people are out there, but there aren't enough to win, and you actually have to offer something of your own to get out more than the "anybody but Obama" vote. And the guy just comes off as stiff and unlikeable. Obama KILLS Romney in likeability polling, and that matters to a lot of voters.
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dr.chimps

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2012, 04:25:00 PM »
Romney is really a weak, embarrassing phony. The guy has no core...just wants to be president for the sake of being president. Perhaps to fulfill his dad's missed opportunity?

Romney thinks he can win on the anti-Obama sentiment. Those people are out there, but there aren't enough to win, and you actually have to offer something of your own to get out more than the "anybody but Obama" vote. And the guy just comes off as stiff and unlikeable. Obama KILLS Romney in likeability polling, and that matters to a lot of voters.
Well, Romney is thoroughly unlikeable, and opportunistic, but a weak economy is a Obama's ball-and-chain, so he's going all-in. Can't blame him.   

Benny B

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2012, 04:42:26 PM »
Well, Romney is thoroughly unlikeable, and opportunistic, but a weak economy is a Obama's ball-and-chain, so he's going all-in. Can't blame him.   
Not going to work though. Most people realize Obama came into a disastrous economic situation, and that he's had to deal with a repub congress that would rather see the country go in the tank than let things get really better and Obama get the credit.

People see through desparate attacks...it makes you look unstatesmanlike and like a man about to lose. And barring an ovewhelming performance in the debates, Romney WILL lose.
Nate Silver has Obama's odds of winning up to 80% at this point.
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SF1900

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 04:44:40 PM »
It appears that the reason why some people are voting for Romney is because they dont like Obama. Basically, Romney is the default guy. Is there anything in Romney political career that shows that he will do a better job than Obama? Has he accomplished anything politically that lends credence to his abilities? Like when you ask a republican why they are voting for him, they usually just say, "Because he is better than Obama" or go on a rant about how he is anti gay marriage and pro life. Those are VERY small indicators that he will do a good job. Now dont get me wrong, Obama has sucked as president. But is there any evidence in Romneys past to suggest that he will do a better job?
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King Shizzo

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2012, 04:54:43 PM »
I'm not defending Mitt, but Obama is a chump.  He hasn't done shit in 4 years.

dr.chimps

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2012, 05:01:20 PM »
Not going to work though. Most people realize Obama came into a disastrous economic situation, and that he's had to deal with a repub congress that would rather see the country go in the tank than let things get really better and Obama get the credit.

People see through desparate attacks...it makes you look unstatesmanlike and like a man about to lose. And barring an ovewhelming performance in the debates, Romney WILL lose.
Nate Silver has Obama's odds of winning up to 80% at this point.
I get your point, and your polemic, but this is not an election where rational thought is going to play a part - people have made up their mind a long time ago on who they're going to vote for - a vote based on emotion, not facts. But you and 3.14 keep up your  attrition.  ;D

Benny B

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2012, 07:40:00 PM »
I get your point, and your polemic, but this is not an election where rational thought is going to play a part - people have made up their mind a long time ago on who they're going to vote for - a vote based on emotion, not facts. But you and 3.14 keep up your  attrition.  ;D
That's true in virtually every presidential election, doc. People typically stick to their party of choice regardless of the options presented.

There are a relatively small percentage of voters in about nine states that will decide this election. FL, VA, OH, NV, CO and few others.

The problem for Romney is that his path to 270 electoral votes was small from the start, and his being an unlikeable, flip-flopping DICK makes it that much harder for him. He gives the true independent voter who waits until the debates and the last couple of weeks to make up their minds to just stick with Obama, who at least seems sensible and intelligent.

Quote
But you and 3.14 keep up your  attrition.  ;D
Trust me, I don't give a shit about PEA BRAIN or his Obama racism-induced OCD.   ;)

At the end of the day, my political posts here are for shits & giggles, and to get a rise out the overwhelmingly white male working class voters who make up the majority of the membership of this board, and self-identify with the repube party, most often even against their own interests.  :D I am a political junkie, and this place gives me entertainment as well as insight into the mentality of low information, low intelligence republican voters.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2012, 07:43:37 PM »
Romney is really a weak, embarrassing phony. The guy has no core...just wants to be president for the sake of being president. Perhaps to fulfill his dad's missed opportunity?

Romney thinks he can win on the anti-Obama sentiment. Those people are out there, but there aren't enough to win, and you actually have to offer something of your own to get out more than the "anybody but Obama" vote. And the guy just comes off as stiff and unlikeable. Obama KILLS Romney in likeability polling, and that matters to a lot of voters.

Obama is a ghetto nig nog piece of slime and welfare diaper.   nly a drug addict or crack fiend would support him.

Benny B

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2012, 08:09:04 PM »
Obama is a ghetto nig nog piece of slime and welfare diaper.   nly a drug addict or crack fiend would support him.
lol  ::)

Sad, bitter, PEA BRAIN expressing his racism and GOOMBA upbringing. What else is new?  :P

95,500 posts...posting ALL DAY EVERY DAY and never leaving his apartment
GET A JOB!!!   >:(



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Benny B

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2012, 08:15:20 PM »
Obama is a ghetto nig nog piece of slime and welfare diaper.   nly a drug addict or crack fiend would support him.


Quote
PEA BRAIN expressing his racism and GOOMBA upbringing.
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Benny B

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2012, 07:36:26 AM »
Rumsfeld's misguided, self-defeating standards
By Steve Benen
 -
Thu Sep 13, 2012



When it comes to this week's unrest in Libya, Egypt, and elsewhere, it's hard to understand the exact nature of the right's criticism of President Obama. I'm still not altogether sure what it is they think they don't like about the White House's actions.

Some bigoted video gets put on the Internet, which provokes protests in Muslim countries, which may have led some violent opportunists to exploit protests for violent ends. In conservatives' minds, at what point in this scenario did the president make a mistake?

Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld -- remember him? -- shed new light on the right's thinking yesterday, arguing that the events in Libya and Egypt were the result of "perceived American weakness."

It's a ridiculous argument, but at least I understand the train of thought. That rascally Obama, after ordering the strike that killed bin Laden, decimating al Qaeda, and helping topple the Gadhafi regime, has signaled American "weakness" abroad, which in turn encourages anti-American protests at our diplomatic facilities. After all, the argument goes, people wouldn't dare protest if they perceived America as strong, right?

This line of attack has a certain child-like charm, which may appeal to those who don't think too much about the details and overlook Rumsfeld's tragic lack of credibility.

But there's another problem: "[T]here were twelve terrorist attacks on U.S. diplomatic facilities abroad during George W. Bush's tenure -- the most of any president in history -- and eight of those occurred while Donald Rumsfeld was in office."

There were also seven attacks on U.S. diplomatic facilities during the Reagan era.


In other words, by Rumsfeld's standards, American embassies and consulates were targeted in years past because, during Ronald Reagan's and George W. Bush's presidencies, foreigners "perceived American weakness."

I realize it's the height of the campaign season and partisans are prone to say silly things, but Republicans really ought to have better talking points than the nonsense Rumsfeld is throwing around.
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Benny B

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2012, 07:55:51 AM »
The Romney Smirk



It was the smirk that did it.

We are used to the politicization of tragedies. It is unseemly, and it is often condemned, but it is also commonplace enough, so when Mitt Romney launched into a political attack against the president almost concurrent to the actual violence it was perhaps vile in timing, but otherwise not all that surprising. Likewise, Mitt Romney's bizarre assertion that the Obama administration "sympathized" with the attackers, based apparently on statements condemning religious intolerance issued from the U.S. diplomats in the middle of those attacks, is also not particularly out of character for him; he has premised his entire foreign policy on the notion that Obama engaged in an entirely fictional "apology tour", while his surrogates wonder aloud if the president is American enough—or "Anglo-Saxon" enough—to truly be devoted to American interests. (I mean that, by the way: if Mitt Romney has any actual foreign policy idea other than the declaration that Obama is too nice to other countries, and we need to be meaner to them, whether "them" refers to Russia, China, or anywhere else, I have yet to hear him competently elucidate it.)

So yes, Mr. Romney is a political panderer, an avid devotee of attack politics, and a fantastical liar. These are all known qualities. It was the smirk, though, that turned things. The smirk before, during and after discussing an attack in which American diplomats were killed, a rancid little twitch of a smirk that flickered in and out as he talked about murders, or rather not about murders, but how they would affect him, personally, and his own ambitions. The smirk seemed to make the inner thoughts of the man quite clear: Today was going to be a good day for Mitt Romney. The murder of diplomats was not quite enough to prevent him from condemning the statements of their fellow diplomats before and during the attacks upon them; an attack on an American compound overseas was not in and of itself seen as reason to at least delay verbal abuse of those diplomats for even a scant day, if there was opportunity to be had in not doing so.

One does not smirk when discussing a horrific act. No matter how much you feel the act may benefit you personally, presuming you are the sort of monster that thinks such things, one does not smirk when discussing acts of murder and violence. Even if you have the emotional capacity of a gnat, even if your own ambitions are so great that you cannot help it, one does not smirk. Not, at the very least, when the event is fresh, and the repercussions of the act still unknown, and the possibility of further violence still unclear. Even if you are indeed an outright monster, there ought to be no inner glee visible on your face as you stand before the nation to discuss how a set of still-fresh murders proves your own worth. That was the part where Mr. Romney turned from being a deplorable politician to being a repulsive human being. It is not worth condemning him, or demanding apologies from him, or even making fun of him; that one damn smirk told too long a story. Here is someone whose ambition outshines their empathy. Here is a person who, in times of stress, is first to probe whether it is exploitable to his advantage. Here is a person who focuses on such things to such a degree that he cannot even fully pretend to hide it.


I often considered Mitt Romney awkward. I seldom, though, ascribed it to outright malevolence. His gentle insults of the commoner classes he interacts with on the campaign trail were lighthearted enough, though certainly most of them had a healthy dose of mean as their seed. I considered him a hollow man, mostly, an empty fake, a man obsessed with personal ambitions, a man who could offer no clear vision for the country other than that he and his economic class ought to be given more of it. That damned smirk, though. That smirk spoke to a political heart no bigger than a cinder. That was a malevolent smirk. That was the smirk of a true son of a bitch, a crooked man, a man that even a political crook like Richard Nixon would find it hard to find common cause with.

This is not a man who will ever "rise above it all". He will always remain the all that other, better people have to rise above. This is not a man who has any thoughts of how to lead America via his own strength; his only proven strength is in the condemnations of others. When he ignored United States troops at war in his acceptance speech, it was cold enough; to explain later that it was obviously because they were not as important as his other thin points was much worse; to even have Americans overseas attacked, and to have that still not apparently leave a mark, is a shocking thing even in politics. Even our worst flag-waving bastards learn to hide their sociopathies better, when seeking office. Most of them, anyway.

He is a frequent and unrepentant liar. That should have already caused the nation and press and yes, even better heads in his own party to scorn him, though for some miserable reason it apparently does not. He is apparently devoid of both empathy and common sense; also not good traits for a supposed leader. But that damn smirk. There is no circumstance in which I want to wake up in the morning to a national tragedy only to watch the leader of the nation smirk about it, apparently imagining in his head how he can best gain advantage from it. Goddamn it, no. That is too much and then some. That is disqualifying.

Over the decades we have survived the leadership of stupid men, and of criminal men. We have survived carpet-bombings of substance-less rhetoric, we have inched our way forward through blizzards of of lies, we have pretended to be outraged about sex and pretended to not be outraged at misinformation; we are a hardy lot, apparently. I would hope, though, that we are still not so desperate as to look for leadership from someone who cannot even let a man's blood dry before scrawling his own name in it.

I could stomach Mitt as vapid charlatan. As a smirking, malevolent, outright bastard of a man, though, I am pleased to say that I am still a decent enough person to feel no sympathy for that. No, Richard Milhous Gantry here has got to go.
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Soul Crusher

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whork

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2012, 01:19:44 AM »
Obama is a ghetto nig nog piece of slime and welfare diaper.   nly a drug addict or crack fiend would support him.

So you support him then?

whork

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2012, 01:21:12 AM »
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/kevinglass/2012/09/13/americas_reputation_in_the_muslim_world_is_worse_than_ever



LMFAO! 


Total obamaFAIL


Yep he should have not killed AQ and Bin Laden to make our reputation better ::)

Keep kissing muslim ass you idiot

Hawk

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2012, 08:12:33 PM »
Obama is a ghetto nig nog piece of slime and welfare diaper.    nly a drug addict or crack fiend would support him.



LOL - your ghetto piece of shit cult messiah just admitted he lost Egypt as an Ally


Romney spoke the truth.   Onlya piece of shit leftist Obama c unt agrees w apologizing to the sand nigs


Why are 333386 opinions on Obama so racially over-the-top? He seems unhinged when it comes to the president and the fact he's black.  :-\

Coach is Back!

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2012, 09:21:27 PM »



Why are 333386 opinions on Obama so racially over-the-top? He seems unhinged when it comes to the president and the fact he's black.  :-\

It comes from being the worst president.as.well.as human being in American history. He murdered.those marines and ambassador. He's slime. This has nothing to do with race. Our embassies are being attacked as we speak and he's in Vegas partying with jay Z and Beyonce. He's a treasonous bastard who should be brought up on charges of treason, convicted and .......

Coach is Back!

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2012, 09:25:49 PM »

Yep he should have not killed AQ and Bin Laden to make our reputation better ::)

Keep kissing muslim ass you idiot


He didn't FUCKING kill him. This was in process for over 5 years. He didn't save GM either, the tax payers still owe $25bil to bond holders which I refuse to pay.

Kazan

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2012, 08:46:28 AM »
The title of this thread should be change to "A Pattern of Stupidity"
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

whork

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Re: A pattern of diplomacy
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2012, 01:25:18 AM »
He didn't FUCKING kill him. This was in process for over 5 years. He didn't save GM either, the tax payers still owe $25bil to bond holders which I refuse to pay.

Of course he did he gave the order