Author Topic: Keto Idea..?  (Read 10242 times)

Roger Bacon

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Keto Idea..?
« on: September 18, 2012, 01:33:49 AM »
I'm going extremely strict low carb keto right now.  This always works really well for me, very easy.  I was just wondering, what would happen if I followed this diet with the exception of something sugary to induce a massive post-workout insulin spike?

???

I guess your time in Ketosis would be limited?  Or would it?

phreak

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2012, 01:39:01 AM »
I'm going extremely strict low carb keto right now.  This always works really well for me, very easy.  I was just wondering, what would happen if I followed this diet with the exception of something sugary to induce a massive post-workout insulin spike?

???

I guess your time in Ketosis would be limited?  Or would it?
Then you'd be doing carb backloading.


Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Roger Bacon

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2012, 01:41:10 AM »
Then you'd be doing carb backloading.


Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Thanks for tolerating my ignorance.  What's that?

Roger Bacon

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2012, 01:44:18 AM »
Googled it, thanks this is cool!  8)

phreak

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2012, 01:46:54 AM »
Googled it, thanks this is cool!  8)
Doing it myself now, and seeing good results: more muscle, less fat.

Note: don't let that Kiefer guy overcomplicate things for you. Frontloading isn't really necessary IMO. Just eat no-carb before training, high carb high GI directly after training.

booty

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2012, 02:17:30 AM »
I just ate a bowl of pasta for dinner.  I wanted to rub that in PIP.   ;D

tbombz

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2012, 02:20:06 AM »
worrying about staying in ketosis is misguided, pip

if low carbs works best for you then do low carbs

but theres no reason why eating a moderate amount of carbs will slow fat loss. so long as total calories are the same, a diet with a little bit of carbs as opposed to no carbs at all should probably result in a little more fullness in the muscles and thus a little more muscle retention and fat burning as well.

on an unrelated side note, an interested fact is that so long as your burning bodyfat your body will be producing ketones! ketones are just a by product of fat metabolism. the state of "ketosis", where the brain switches from glucose to ketones for fuel, only spares about 20 grams of glucose per day and so long as you ate sufficient protein that isnt an issue anyways. (as protein will be converted to glucose in order to meet that glucose demand)

dj181

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 02:33:33 AM »
just eat less and move more

Rami

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2012, 02:49:36 AM »
Why not have the carbs before workout? you'll be a monster!

OTHstrong

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2012, 02:50:21 AM »
I'm going extremely strict low carb keto right now.  This always works really well for me, very easy.  I was just wondering, what would happen if I followed this diet with the exception of something sugary to induce a massive post-workout insulin spike?

???

I guess your time in Ketosis would be limited?  Or would it?
Look it's this simple a certain amount of carbs will get you so far, reduce it and you will go further, reduce it more and you will go even further. What you are proposing is a great idea but very dangerous taking something sugary on a ketosis diet cause your cravings will go through the roof once you have had a taste of simple carbs. If you can handle it, I say go for it.

WOOO

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2012, 04:59:09 AM »
I'm going extremely strict low carb keto right now.  This always works really well for me, very easy.  I was just wondering, what would happen if I followed this diet with the exception of something sugary to induce a massive post-workout insulin spike?

???

I guess your time in Ketosis would be limited?  Or would it?

getting into ketosis takes days...

buy a keto meter and see for yourself

Krankenstein

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2012, 05:06:38 AM »
I'm going extremely strict low carb keto right now.  This always works really well for me, very easy.  I was just wondering, what would happen if I followed this diet with the exception of something sugary to induce a massive post-workout insulin spike?

???

I guess your time in Ketosis would be limited?  Or would it?

Read about TKD (timed ketogenic diets) or CKD (cyclical ketogenic diets) and you will have your answers.  Prolonged ketogenic diets have the potential of slowing thyroid output.  Read about all this on Lyle McDonalds website.

Tito24

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2012, 05:12:06 AM »
ketamine

BIG ACH

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2012, 05:15:10 AM »
I don't even think you would get into ketosis then?

You will Definitely still lose weight, but if I remember correctly it would take me a full day or two of no carbs to get into ketosis.


You could buy some keto-sticks and keep track for yourself.

What will you do on days off?  Go completely carb free?

snx

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2012, 05:36:59 AM »
You don't need to get into ketosis to lose fat. Your body will lose if you have some CHO post-workout.

Calories in vs calories out. That's 95% of the equation.

Some water retention (due to CHO intake) will help keep muscles full, which in turn has a positive effect on the metabolic rate. It also helps spur along T4 to T3 conversion, as T3 levels do drop in the absence of CHO.

Extremes in dieting rarely work well. Ketosis is hard to tolerate for long periods, leads to unnecessary food cravings, and can trigger bingeing (the anti-thesis of dieting). Moderation seems more prudent and is a solid long-term solution.

I don't always agree with tbombz and his post above has some issues I don't agree with, but he's generally right. Ketosis isn't necessary to lose fat.


WOOO

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2012, 05:49:43 AM »
um... you don't know anything about ketosis

i've been in ketosis for weeks...

there are 0 food cravings due to the high fat content of the diet

it's very effective for me, but may not be perfect for all

LetItRock

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2012, 05:55:31 AM »
I'm going extremely strict low carb keto right now.  This always works really well for me, very easy.  I was just wondering, what would happen if I followed this diet with the exception of something sugary to induce a massive post-workout insulin spike?

???

I guess your time in Ketosis would be limited?  Or would it?

What is your goal here? Lose fat as fast as you can or gain/ retain muscle as much as you can while losing fat albeit a bit slowly? And what is your body fat % now and what is your target %? any timeframe to get there?

Depending on those things, your strategy will be different. But other ppl are right, don't worry too much about being in Ketosis or not, as long as you achieve your goal.

Btw, I don't think just eating sugary PWO is consider carb back loading though, you need to eat some carb meal and that has to be last meal of the day and you need to workout in the evening to fit the original carb back loafing protocol.

The main trick with low carb is you need to know when to hold 'em, and you need to know when to fold 'em ( and carb up) ;). Hope this helps.

snx

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2012, 06:59:09 AM »
um... you don't know anything about ketosis

i've been in ketosis for weeks...

there are 0 food cravings due to the high fat content of the diet

it's very effective for me, but may not be perfect for all

You're right, I don't know anything about ketosis. Except for the 4th year thesis I wrote in university on the role of glucagon on the activity of acetyl-Co-A carboxylase in hepatic cells.

But other than that, I have no idea what ketosis is or how it works.

booty

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2012, 07:44:45 AM »
I hate keto, it doesn't work for me.  I end up with massive migranes from having no carbs.  I found that carb cycling works best and strips the fat off and I remain sane and migrane free. 

Hulkotron

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2012, 10:03:58 AM »

calfzilla

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2012, 10:29:02 AM »
I don't even think you would get into ketosis then?

You will Definitely still lose weight, but if I remember correctly it would take me a full day or two of no carbs to get into ketosis.


You could buy some keto-sticks and keep track for yourself.

What will you do on days off?  Go completely carb free?

This pretty much.  If you are constantly doing this after your workouts I am pretty sure you will never even be in ketosis. 

OTHstrong

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2012, 10:46:00 AM »
if you eat really almost zero carbs daily , you can easily eat 50-100 gramms sugar any time of the day and it wont add any fat to you and youl be back into fatburning mode within hours.

infact , i think simple sugars are better under those circumstances than slow released carbs.

the sugar gets in and out quickly, while complex carbs will hinder fatloss for longer.
BINGO^^^^^

Krankenstein

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2012, 11:25:49 AM »
The whole keto stick thing is bullshit IMO.  Think about it, the sticks measure the concentration of ketones in the urine.  Now, if you are drinking a lot of water/lquids your urine will be dilute.  Soooo dilute urine = less concentration of ketones.

Those who mention headaches during ketogenic diets are usually experiencing them as a result of lack of hydration.  I am sure many will say "I drank a ton of water", and that may be so, but that is typically the reason.  Here is a nice explanation :

Serotonin seems to have a central role in headache pain (nociception). Migraines are linked to too little serotonin activity resulting in vasodilation and tension headaches are linked to too much serotonin activity resulting in vasoconstriction.  Abnormalities in magnesium or calcium availability also tend to adversely affect blood vessels in the brain ability to contract and dilate appropriately.

Going on any variant of low-carb dieting causes serotonin activity to drop off because of how the how the blood-brain barrier works and the decreased availability of the amino acid tryptophan. When blood sugar goes up, insulin is released which causes most other amino-acids to be taken up from the blood stream by muscle tissue, but not tryptophan (reference). The resulting high ratio of tryptophan in the blood stream allows it to cross the blood-brain barrier preferentially which makes it more available to be converted to serotonin (and later to melatonin). Hence, less carbs in the diet leads to less insulin which leads to less serotonin. This could cause vasocongestive type headaches.

bigmikecox

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2012, 11:33:12 AM »

Marty Champions

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Re: Keto Idea..?
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2012, 05:42:43 PM »
I hate keto, it doesn't work for me.  I end up with massive migranes from having no carbs.  I found that carb cycling works best and strips the fat off and I remain sane and migrane free. 

hahah its called a headache. women always exagerate headaches and call them migranes

but yes low or no sugars will give you a headache and throw off your rhythm
A