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Author Topic: Man Beats 5 month old son to Death, his Defence ôSpare the rod. Spoil the child"  (Read 3626 times)
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« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2012, 12:09:15 PM »

I was never beat as a child. And I'd never forgive some bastard that would even if you call them mother or father. Do you hit your dogs too?
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« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2012, 12:38:34 PM »

There's no verse that says "Spare the rod; spoil the child." The passage in Proverbs 13 (verse 24) reads:

He who withholds his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.

Anyone with a grain of sense knows that this hardly applies TO AN INFANT. Plus, with OT verses in the Bible, people often make the mistake of "son", referring only to children. Men lived with their fathers for YEARS after becoming adults (age 20), until they got married.

Discipline means the appropriate punishment for an offense.
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« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2012, 12:48:29 PM »

There's no verse that says "Spare the rod; spoil the child." The passage in Proverbs 13 (verse 24) reads:

He who withholds his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.

Anyone with a grain of sense knows that this hardly applies TO AN INFANT. Plus, with OT verses in the Bible, people often make the mistake of "son", referring only to children. Men lived with their fathers for YEARS after becoming adults (age 20), until they got married.

Discipline means the appropriate punishment for an offense.

I always thought that looking for parenting advice in ancient scriptures is a bad idea in general. A lot of things have changed since then.

But if you insist on doing this whole Bible version of reality, I might as well go get myself a personal slave.
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« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2012, 01:29:25 PM »

I was never beat as a child. And I'd never forgive some bastard that would even if you call them mother or father. Do you hit your dogs too?

amen.

i was, friends of mine were...we're all fucked up to some degree.

i've NEVER hit my kids..one is nearly 18, the other is 8;. Both are great kids. well adjusted, trustworthy, honest...and they know right from wrong.

physical discipline is a complete joke. its an excuse to justify not using your brain, or you being unable to control your emotions.

study after study has been done to discredit physical punishment. its amazing people still say "well im ok"...good for you!

For every 1 person who was physically disciplined and it wasnt a problem, there are a thousand who went the other way.

my dad did it cos it was from his generation,..all it did was make me store up "payback"...i hear no different from others.

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« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2012, 01:30:21 PM »

amen.

i was, friends of mine were...we're all fucked up to some degree.

i've NEVER hit my kids..one is nearly 18, the other is 8;. Both are great kids. well adjusted, trustworthy, honest...and they know right from wrong.

physical discipline is a complete joke. its an excuse to justify not using your brain, or you being unable to control your emotions.

study after study has been done to discredit physical punishment. its amazing people still say "well im ok"...good for you!

For every 1 person who was physically disciplined and it wasnt a problem, there are a thousand who went the other way.

my dad did it cos it was from his generation,..all it did was make me store up "payback"...i hear no different from others.


Im assuming your talking about actual physical harm and not a spanking.
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disco_stu
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« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2012, 01:32:36 PM »

Im assuming your talking about actual physical harm and not a spanking.

oh, there;'s a difference?

!

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« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2012, 01:33:31 PM »

oh, there;'s a difference?

!


Yes. A rather large distinction. One causes no harm and barely hurts.
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disco_stu
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« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2012, 01:37:53 PM »

let me make it easier for you.

if I hit my kids and caused them any harm whatsoever, i'd be ashamed of myself and feel extreme guilt.

im there to keep them harm free and safe.

thats the one and only reason you use force...

anyone who hits their kids will strongly disagree with me im sure... you have to live with yourself and sleep at night..so get into an internet fight with me and your conscience.

if you hit your kids/wife then you are a loser. period.

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« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2012, 01:42:58 PM »

I have no problem with physical discipline, but how could a 5 month old conceivably misbehave. All they're capable of is shitting, sleeping, crying, puking, the occasional farts but mostly shit, and some cooing and cawing.

Piece of fucking shit.
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« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2012, 01:43:30 PM »

Using the bible as a defense is like me killing somebody and claiming it was a "sacrifice to the gods" based on some old book of mythology/superstition (which is no different than the bible).
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« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2012, 01:43:34 PM »

let me make it easier for you.

if I hit my kids and caused them any harm whatsoever, i'd be ashamed of myself and feel extreme guilt.

im there to keep them harm free and safe.

thats the one and only reason you use force...

anyone who hits their kids will strongly disagree with me im sure... you have to live with yourself and sleep at night..so get into an internet fight with me and your conscience.

if you hit your kids/wife then you are a loser. period.


Again, hitting and spanking are 2 different things. But whatever floats your boat bromosexual.
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« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2012, 01:49:41 PM »

Yes. A rather large distinction. One causes no harm and barely hurts.

Didn't I just cite a study in this thread that challenges that view?

How can you possibly justify spanking a child when you know more than well that millions and millions of parents out there manage to raise their kids with no physical punishment whatsoever? If others can do it, then so can you. There is NO EXCUSE. NONE.

Do you hit dogs as well?
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« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2012, 01:52:35 PM »

Didn't I just cite a study in this thread that challenges that view?

How can you possibly justify spanking a child when you know more than well that millions and millions of parents out there manage to raise their kids with no physical punishment whatsoever? If others can do it, then so can you. There is NO EXCUSE. NONE.

Do you hit dogs as well?
I remember being spanked only twice - and thats all it took. It was only when I broke rules that extremely endangered myself, and guess what, I never did them again. The spanking didnt even hurt all that bad.
I laughed at being stuck in a corner in time out, or any of those kind of things. Different kids require different kinds of parenting.

So please, don't try to lecture me with your wealth of parenting knowledge on what works and what doesn't.

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« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2012, 01:57:41 PM »

I remember being spanked only twice - and thats all it took. It was only when I broke rules that extremely endangered myself, and guess what, I never did them again. I laughed at being stuck in a corner in time out, or any of those kind of things. Different kids require different kinds of parenting. So please, don't try to lecture me with your wealth of parenting knowledge.

Ah here we go again with anecdotes. Me and my sister were brought up with no spanking whatsoever and we've both turned out alright. See how easy that is? All of us, no matter what kind of parenting we come from can play that game and make all sorts of claims. Pathetic. You haven't justified spanking in the slightest and you know it.

You used to have a drug problem but not anymore, right? See folks, it's OK to use hardcore drugs because Shockwave here did and ended up just fine.
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« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2012, 02:07:30 PM »

Ah here we go again with anecdotes. Me and my sister were brought up with no spanking whatsoever and we've both turned out alright. See how easy that is? All of us, no matter what kind of parenting we come from can play that game and make all sorts of claims. Pathetic. You haven't justified spanking in the slightest and you know it.

You used to have a drug problem but not anymore, right? See folks, it's OK to use hardcore drugs because Shockwave here did and ended up just fine.
WTF are you talking about? I said, I was spanked both times, and both times it needed to be done, as I literally did not give a shit about the other punishments. I knew the rules and I broke them. Why? Because I could.

I was a child that needed to have that kind of discipline. Some children do - some don't. You're trying to lump every one of them together because "Its how you were raised". Newsflash - not everyone is the same there genius.

As for my drug problem, fucking retarded comparison. But way to try and look at the world as black and white, you have the mentality of a child.
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« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2012, 02:12:19 PM »

My dad used to whip me with his belt, kick me, and shove me into walls until I hit around age 14 and started lifting weights and playing football. It was not very good. Seeing as how he's a coward, and couldn't bully me and take out his life's anger on me (there were many reasons for it, I'm sure, none of them justified) when I got older, we just simply drifted apart and had nothing to really say to each other. We faked liking each other as we got older to keep up appearances and bring civility to family get-togethers.

I can't spank my kids because of my childhood. I'm actually revolted by the idea and am still fearful of my poor old gray haired dad to this day. He couldn't swat a fly now, but all he has to do is raise his voice and I get scared. I've long since stopped hating him, but now, mostly I just find his presence distasteful and intolerable. And yes, I'm still scared of him. We're all little boys deep down inside, when we see ourselves reflected in our father's eyes, and our fathers are always, and will always be, giants. You can't erase the imprinting phase of childhood. When you learn to hate your father, you learn the most devastating emotions of all...the realization that the only man in your life who had real potential to be a hero, was a huge letdown and a cancer on your life. It does callous the heart with unbelievably remarkable precision. But, we all need to learn to deal with a callous at some point, don't we?

But, I will refuse to judge any parent who does or doesn't spank. Just make sure when you do it, you do it with a measured hand and that your child understands your true intentions and your love for them. I think it's hard to do that when you spank them, but I'm won't judge a parent. A spanking is far from being the worst thing a parent can do to a child.
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« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2012, 02:15:57 PM »

But, I will refuse to judge any parent who does or doesn't spank. Just make sure when you do it, you do it with a measured hand and that your child understands your true intentions and your love for them. I think it's hard to do that when you spank them, but I'm won't judge a parent. A spanking is far from being the worst thing a parent can do to a child.
This is exactly how my father did it. There was no malice, it was done because I needed to understand my actions would have consequences, and the normal methods of punishment simply didn't work on me.

Spanking, IMHO, is reserved for the most severe situations when no other punishment would work. If my son learns to respect and obey the rules through normal punishment, great. If he doesn't, and I have to spank him, Im going to.

There is a huge difference between physical abuse and a swat on the ass.

My dad used to whip me with his belt, kick me, and shove me into walls until I hit around age 14 and started lifting weights and playing football. It was not very good. Seeing as how he's a coward, and couldn't bully me and take out his life's anger on me
This... is abuse. And there is never a justification for action like this.
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« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2012, 02:16:30 PM »

5 month old can barely crawl, what could they do to need discipline?
 lol..   well, i can think of somethings.. for example: crying all night..  or interupting people who are having a conversation..    you could benefit the child by giving a bit of discipline in these scenarios..
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« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2012, 02:19:46 PM »

oh fuck, that's a depressing story  Sad
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« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2012, 02:30:15 PM »

WTF are you talking about? I said, I was spanked both times, and both times it needed to be done, as I literally did not give a shit about the other punishments. I knew the rules and I broke them. Why? Because I could.

I was a child that needed to have that kind of discipline. Some children do - some don't. You're trying to lump every one of them together because "Its how you were raised". Newsflash - not everyone is the same there genius.

As for my drug problem, fucking retarded comparison. But way to try and look at the world as black and white, you have the mentality of a child.

My point was that anecdotes are pretty much worthless in these contexts, not to make a perfect analogy with child abuse. What works for you might not work for me and vice versa, you're right about that, but my view is that it's been well established by now that it's fully possible to raise kids without resorting to physical means even if the kid is being a brat. When that fact is obvious, why not do everything in your power to not spank your child?

For a lot of people physically harming(don't try to sugarcoat it, why would you spank someone if it doesn't cause pain?) your own child is a sacred line you just don't cross and secondly, more and more research is showing that spanking can/will have negative side effects which is way more persuasive than mere anecdotes. Also another thing to consider is that people have very different opinions of what exactly a "spanking" entails. Just don't cross the line at all, I say.

I'm not intent on being a complete dick here by indirectly insulting your parents, but if you had gotten to the point where the only option was being spanked then perhaps there were other things that could have been done prior to that? I have a hard time believing that someone was born to do really stupid and dangerous stuff and then suddenly snap out of it just because he/she was spanked. Again, my intent is not to insult your parents.
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« Reply #45 on: October 12, 2012, 02:34:32 PM »

I'm not intent on being a complete dick here by indirectly insulting your parents, but if you had gotten to the point where the only option was being spanked then perhaps there were other things that could have been done prior to that? I have a hard time believing that someone was born to do really stupid and dangerous stuff and then suddenly snap out of it just because he/she was spanked. Again, my intent is not to insult your parents.
I was the kind of child that would always push the envelope, too see just how far I could push it before I reached that line. For me, being spanked was the line. I didn't care about being grounded, being stuck in the corner, etc. I just did not care. But being spanked was the line.

And it wasn't about the pain, the pain was practically nothing. It was the fact that I had pushed my parents that far that they had to resort to this to make me understand the consequences of my actions.

As far as the "being born to do stupid and dangerous stuff", I think you're discounting alot of genetics right there. I remember reading several studies with solid evidence that certain personality traits were passed down genetically, including those that may cause people to do "stupid and dangerous" stuff.
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« Reply #46 on: October 12, 2012, 02:34:56 PM »

 lol..   well, i can think of somethings.. for example: crying all night..  or interupting people who are having a conversation..    you could benefit the child by giving a bit of discipline in these scenarios..

Your conversations are often interrupted by 5 month old children?

And you do realize that children cry as a primary form of communication with adults, right? That's what you do when you don't know how to talk.
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« Reply #47 on: October 12, 2012, 02:35:36 PM »

Your conversations are often interrupted by 5 month old children?

And you do realize that children cry as a primary form of communication with adults, right? That's what you do when you don't know how to talk.
Damn infant shouldn't have been interrupting me. I was perfectly justified in raining down hooks on his candy ass.
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« Reply #48 on: October 12, 2012, 02:36:35 PM »

Humans will beat, kill, torture, destroy - aaaaaaall in the name of God/Allah.....


Wonderfull race we are... Roll Eyes
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« Reply #49 on: October 12, 2012, 02:44:43 PM »

I was the kind of child that would always push the envelope, too see just how far I could push it before I reached that line. For me, being spanked was the line. I didn't care about being grounded, being stuck in the corner, etc. I just did not care. But being spanked was the line.

And it wasn't about the pain, the pain was practically nothing. It was the fact that I had pushed my parents that far that they had to resort to this to make me understand the consequences of my actions.

As far as the "being born to do stupid and dangerous stuff", I think you're discounting alot of genetics right there. I remember reading several studies with solid evidence that certain personality traits were passed down genetically, including those that may cause people to do "stupid and dangerous" stuff.

I can definitely believe that genetics play a role in determining someones personality, in fact I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case. But what would surprise me even more is if that particular innate "bad" personality could be fully suppressed by a mere spanking. That's what I'm questioning. Either genetics had a big influence on your personality, or they didn't. I'd argue for the latter if a somewhat gentle and loving spanking got rid of it.

Anyways, it's all speculation.
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