Author Topic: Romney's debate response to TPC's evaluation of his tax plan  (Read 1906 times)

Straw Man

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Romney's debate response to TPC's evaluation of his tax plan
« on: October 16, 2012, 11:19:00 AM »
Quote
And number three, I will not, under any circumstances, raise taxes on middle-income families. I will lower taxes on middle-income families. Now, you cite a study. There are six other studies that looked at the study you describe and say it's completely wrong. I saw a study that came out today that said you're going to raise taxes by 3(,000 dollars) to $4,000 on — on middle-income families. There are all these studies out there.

Ryan has been repeating this same comment

Is anyone here familiar with these "studies"

Did you know that most of the so called studies are nothing more than blogs posts and one is even a paper written by his own advisors

1. Harvey Rosen paper. Rosen, a professor at Princeton, assumed Romney's lower tax rates would kickstart enough growth to pay for the revenue hole those lower tax rates would create. This seems dubious. Alan Viard and Alex Brill of the conservative American Enterprise Institute (AEI) have argued that it seems unlikely revenue neutral tax reform would have big growth effects -- incentives don't change much if taxes don't even if tax rates do. And besides, the Tax Policy Center used aggressive growth estimates from Romney adviser Greg Mankiw's work to test Romney's plan. It still didn't add up.


2. Marty Feldstein Wall Street Journal op-ed
. Former Reagan adviser and current Harvard professor Feldstein argued Romney's plan works if you assume growth would be much stronger and if you define middle class as households making less than $100,000 rather than households making less than $200,000. This latter figure is the one Romney has used when he has said his plan would not raise taxes on the middle class.


3. Marty Feldstein blog post. Feldstein was less aggressive with his growth estimates this time, but he stuck with his definition of middle class as households making less than $100,000. He also assumed Romney might cut tax preferences for employer health-insurance, make municipal bond interest taxable, and eliminate the child tax credit for households making more than $100,000.


4. Matt Jensen blog post
at AEI. He argued Romney might cut tax preferences for municipal bonds and life insurance buildups. But this might go against Romney's promise not to cut tax preferences for savings and investment -- and would only pay for half of Romney's revenue hole, according to the Tax Policy Center.


5. Curtis Dubay blog post at Heritage
. He argued Romney might cut tax preferences for municipal bonds and life insurance buildups -- yes, again -- and that Romney might tax inheritances on a "carryover basis" after eliminating the estate tax. In plain English, heirs would have to pay capital gains for the price an asset was bought for, rather than the price it was inherited at. But as Suzy Khimm of the Washington Post notes, Dubay overestimates how much revenue this change -- which, remember, is just a guess about what Romney would do -- would generate.


6. Romney Tax Reform White Paper. This is just his advisers arguing by assertion that the plan works.


In other words, Romney's plan only works if you assume he has a different plan or use a magic growth asterisk. And that means we have no idea what he would do if he wins. Does he care more about his tax rate cuts, about not hiking taxes on the middle class, or not increasing the deficit? His adviser Kevin Hassett suggested they would back off the high-end tax rate cuts if it would increase the deficit, but Romney quickly denied that. He's also denied reality, by relying on studies that only prove his critics' point.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/10/the-6-studies-paul-ryan-cited-prove-mitt-romneys-tax-plan-is-impossible/263541/

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Re: Romney's debate response to TCP's evaluation of his tax plan
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2012, 12:42:31 PM »
He needs to better sell this economic plan.  For a guy who spent his life delivering very clear business solutions - this one is muddy.  His peers agreed, FOX news agrees.  These six have very strong motivation to rubber stamp everything.

Romney needs to deliver a 1 hour web seminar and answer every single Q.

Fury

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Re: Romney's debate response to TCP's evaluation of his tax plan
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2012, 12:47:35 PM »
He needs to better sell this economic plan.  For a guy who spent his life delivering very clear business solutions - this one is muddy.  His peers agreed, FOX news agrees.  These six have very strong motivation to rubber stamp everything.

Romney needs to deliver a 1 hour web seminar and answer every single Q.

Why?

What's Obama's tax plan? Beyond generating a few billion more from the rich? Oh wait, it doesn't exist. Haha.




Also, The Tax Policy Center is an irrelevant organization and only of importance to pathetically stupid people like StrawAnus.

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Re: Romney's debate response to TCP's evaluation of his tax plan
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2012, 01:15:43 PM »
Why?

What's Obama's tax plan? Beyond generating a few billion more from the rich? Oh wait, it doesn't exist. Haha.




Also, The Tax Policy Center is an irrelevant organization and only of importance to pathetically stupid people like StrawAnus.

his plan is impossible, the six studies he is referring too in fact do not support his position. Funny that when confronted with facts, you spin it onto Obama.  Can't you just look at each individual argument, without being a republican or democrat.

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Re: Romney's debate response to TCP's evaluation of his tax plan
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2012, 01:21:39 PM »
Why?

What's Obama's tax plan? Beyond generating a few billion more from the rich? Oh wait, it doesn't exist. Haha.




Also, The Tax Policy Center is an irrelevant organization and only of importance to pathetically stupid people like StrawAnus.

so you support someone touting an impossible tax plan? you think that is someone who should be in charge of the US? he is using a massive lie to try and get into office, one that is clearly and plainly stupid.

Fury

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Re: Romney's debate response to TCP's evaluation of his tax plan
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2012, 01:56:19 PM »
so you support someone touting an impossible tax plan? you think that is someone who should be in charge of the US? he is using a massive lie to try and get into office, one that is clearly and plainly stupid.

No more of a lie than Obama claiming he'd cut the deficit in half during his first term or that he'll lower the debt by $4 trillion in his next term (funny when projections show our debt approaching $25 trillion by the end of an Obama Term 2).

You think that is someone who should be in charge of the US? Obama is using a massive lie to try and get into office, one that is clearly and plainly stupid.

Move along, clown.

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Re: Romney's debate response to TPC's evaluation of his tax plan
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2012, 02:37:28 PM »
Why?

What's Obama's tax plan? Beyond generating a few billion more from the rich? Oh wait, it doesn't exist. Haha.




Also, The Tax Policy Center is an irrelevant organization and only of importance to pathetically stupid people like StrawAnus.

Romney is supposed to be a BETTER alternative to obama.  not just an alternative.

Explaining his plan would get him a lot more support with people who won't know what he'll do differently.

You can win on vague ass 'change' mantras, however.  obama did in 2008.  But i'd prefer if romney would detail his plan/    ryan saying "i dont have time to explain' was a clear dodge.

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Re: Romney's debate response to TPC's evaluation of his tax plan
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2012, 05:00:11 PM »
Romney is supposed to be a BETTER alternative to obama.  not just an alternative.

Explaining his plan would get him a lot more support with people who won't know what he'll do differently.

You can win on vague ass 'change' mantras, however.  obama did in 2008.  But i'd prefer if romney would detail his plan/    ryan saying "i dont have time to explain' was a clear dodge.

he can't explain it because he has no f'ng idea how he is going to lower taxes by 20% while increasing miltary spending and reducing the deficit

I'm sure tonight we're going to learn about his diet plan where you eat 20% more calories more than you need and still lose weight and you can also eat anything you want and never have to worry about heart disease or diabetes.......details to follow after the election

Straw Man

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Re: Romney's debate response to TPC's evaluation of his tax plan
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2012, 05:07:14 PM »
BAHAHAHAHAHA !! - even Chris Wallace on Fox News can't deal with Romney surrogates bullshit on the six different so called "studies"

the good stuff starts around the 2 minute mark


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Re: Romney's debate response to TPC's evaluation of his tax plan
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2012, 05:08:57 PM »
he can't explain it because he has no f'ng idea how he is going to lower taxes by 20% while increasing miltary spending and reducing the deficit

Yes he can, actually.   He has explained that the explosive growth in business in USA would provide the tax revenue to pay for it.

Now, the level of explosive growth might be unrealistic - THAT is what he's having problems explaining.  It would require a lot, lot, lot of growth he's counting on.  The model would fail without that growth.

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Re: Romney's debate response to TPC's evaluation of his tax plan
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2012, 05:13:32 PM »
Romney is supposed to be a BETTER alternative to obama.  not just an alternative.

Explaining his plan would get him a lot more support with people who won't know what he'll do differently.

You can win on vague ass 'change' mantras, however.  obama did in 2008.  But i'd prefer if romney would detail his plan/    ryan saying "i dont have time to explain' was a clear dodge.

Funny considering you're 100% in the tank for Obama and will be voting for him.

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Re: Romney's debate response to TPC's evaluation of his tax plan
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2012, 05:14:15 PM »
Funny considering you're 100% in the tank for Obama and will be voting for him.

I shit on him a lot on getbig, for someone 100% in the tank. 

Fury

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Re: Romney's debate response to TPC's evaluation of his tax plan
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2012, 05:17:40 PM »
I shit on him a lot on getbig, for someone 100% in the tank. 

No, no you don't.

Straw Man

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Re: Romney's debate response to TPC's evaluation of his tax plan
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2012, 05:27:04 PM »
Yes he can, actually.   He has explained that the explosive growth in business in USA would provide the tax revenue to pay for it.
Now, the level of explosive growth might be unrealistic - THAT is what he's having problems explaining.  It would require a lot, lot, lot of growth he's counting on.  The model would fail without that growth.

might be unrealistic ?
 
TPC called them "“implausibly large growth effects”

so unless we get growth effects on a scale never seen before then the whole thing collapses and he has to raise taxes on the middle class in addition to the massive spending cuts which will undoubtly harm the most vulnerable in our society