Author Topic: Nolva for Bloat  (Read 7094 times)

guest123

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2005, 07:38:36 PM »
marble was the shit.  the info he spit, i took all of it as truth. 
he also was advocate of staying on rather than cycling for your nuts to come back after you are done.  was brillant in his posts.
spoke in scientific detail then would break it down like locker room talk.  amazing.

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2005, 07:42:45 PM »
Wait......I thought he was a "researcher", not that he HIMSELF had crossed over to the "Dark Side" of the force.

Someone care to elaborate on this?

Was he a user?

Speak.




DIV

I really would not feel right elaborating on someone else's personal stuff.  But marble was one of us. 

Maybe he will fill us in on whats up? (obvious attempt to bait him out  :D)  he did say he would drop in from time to time.

guest123

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2005, 08:31:01 PM »
no. he provided studies and quoted them.
it was just nice to have someone not spitting the same normal suggestions which are not even based on science.
things such as running nolva to prevent gyno.  (this is not a marble study.)  but nolva can actually stimulate breast tissue growth in some men.  many doctor's that deal with gyno share this belief. 
just nice to hear science based posts. 
i don't have blind faith in anything. 

DIVISION

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2005, 09:49:28 PM »
no. he provided studies and quoted them.

So he hadn't crossed over to the "Dark Side".

I see.

I wish he'd come back, we could use him.

I'd like his personal opinion on Dostinex.




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freakfestMD

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2005, 03:47:57 AM »
There were a few posts about him getting married, getting a new job, etc. 

His posts were truly amazing because he would back up every statement with a literature reference, and it was clear that he actually read the complete manuscripts very thouroughly.  He was great at summarizing very compex information.  However, the time expenditure that he invested was clearly HUGE.  I know from my own publications (>30)that the time it takes to do a good literature review and to synthesize all of that information into written format is extensive.  I suspect he simply couldn't devote the time anymore.


Luv2Hurt

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2005, 05:44:23 AM »
Well said Freak, he did put tons of time in.  He probally burned out a little also.  I still say he got out of the game...he seemed troubled by the effects of androgen's on the heart.  And to tell the truth with all the deaths in the sport related to heart problems it has me wondering too.

Oh yeah guys, just so you know the Freak is the marble of orthopedics  ;D


mem

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2005, 08:43:59 AM »

Oh yeah guys, just so you know the Freak is the marble of orthopedics  ;D


Absolutely - a B I G bow of respect to freakfestMD on my part . . .
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freakfestMD

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2005, 02:39:28 PM »
Wow--Thanks guys! :D

DIVISION

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2005, 04:19:20 PM »
Wow--Thanks guys! :D

Orthopedics, huh?   ;D

Freakfest, what is your opinion of the common belief that AAS tend to erode the connective tissue in the joints thus making them more susceptible to injury?

Speak on this, sir.




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freakfesttMD

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2005, 12:22:06 PM »
Freakfest, what is your opinion of the common belief that AAS tend to erode the connective tissue in the joints thus making them more susceptible to injury?

Speak on this, sir.
DIV

Great question DIV.  The short answer:  this common belief is likely accurate.

Most of what we know, at least histologically, about the effects of steroids on tendon structure come from studies of corticosteroids which are commonly injected to alleviate the pain and inflammation from acute tendinitis.  This is a common, and very effective, treatment but has a known complication rate of tendon rupture after injection.  This complication has also been corroborated with oral corticosteroid use.

As such, researchers have spent considerable time investigating this relationship at the cellular level. At the tendon level, glucocorticoids suppress human tenocyte cellular activity, reduce tenocyte viability, and reduce collagen production, leading to altered tendon structure and predisposition to injury (Wong et al Clin Orthop Rel Res 2004; Wong et al J Bone and Joint Surg 2003).


There has been no effort spent on closely examining this effect in the case of anabolic steroids, likely because of the obvious illicit nature of their use and the fact that not many doctors actually give a sh*t about us (myself withstanding  ;D). However, case examples of tendon rupture have been described among anabolic steroid users with increasing frequency.  At the surface level, one could surmise that these individuals rupture their tendons simply due to the fact that they are engaged in high demand activities.  I know of one report where ruptured tendons from two anabolic steroid users were examined, with two non-steroid users as controls.  Gross microscopic examination revealed no obvious difference in the collagen fibril ultrastructure among the four individuals, leading the authors to conclude that use of steroids did not induce tendinous changes that lead to rupture (Evans et al Injury 1998).

However, one thing that does seem to distinguish tendon rupture in anabolic steroid users from non-users and from those after local and systemic glucocorticoid administration is the predilection for BILATERAL, SPONTANEOUS rupture of tendons.  This event is unusual, and is not typically described in weightlifters who do not use anabolics.  Also, the events do not always seem to occur during weightlifting activity.  There may of course be a bias towards reporting these cases in steroid users, though, because they are "sexier" topics and often make it past journal reviewers.    

That being said, overall I think the medical literature does support the concept.  As well, most of us probably know someone at the gym who this has happened to, and most likely it was one of the big AAS boyz...

freakfestMD

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2005, 12:24:49 PM »
Note:

I wasn't logged in when I posted the above comments but it's me (I didn't realize until I finished typing and I was afraid to lose my response).  Computer chicken-sh*t!

DIVISION

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2005, 12:57:48 PM »
Great question DIV.  The short answer:  this common belief is likely accurate.

Yes, Freakfest.

But is it the same mechanism of erosion the same with both corticosteroids and anabolicsteroids?

-or- is it just a case of the AAS causing the muscle strength to outgrow the tendon strength, thus creating an imbalance and consequent rupture?

SPEAK.



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freakfestMD

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2005, 01:21:48 PM »
This is unknown.  My collective feeling is that it is likely some combination of both phenomenon.  The "perfect storm," if you will.  Compromised tendon + heavy loading = potential disaster.  It is interesting, though, that these ruptures are not only seen during weight-training activities.  It begs the argument of some underlying tendinopathy.

mem

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2005, 01:30:52 PM »
See I quit taking prescription :) Celebrex 2.5 years ago due to this prospect.
I did not read the compete post. But I thought that I understood that NSAIDs
undermined tissue repair while blocking pain (a prostaglandin thing).

I have stayed away from OTC anti-inflammatories, hopefully to aid (long term)
in the bodies ability to repair. I also h o p e that over time using Hgh and natural
(collegen supporting) suppliments that I may provide substrate for this.
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DIVISION

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2005, 02:15:10 PM »
It is interesting, though, that these ruptures are not only seen during weight-training activities.  It begs the argument of some underlying tendinopathy.

That's my thinking as well.

If you rupture tendons falling down or tripping.......something people do all the time, it speaks to an underlying condition.

I wish we had some answers.





DIV
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