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Author Topic: Christianity that is being preached is not monotheistic at all it is pantheistic  (Read 1679 times)
Man of Steel
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Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15


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« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2012, 01:46:53 PM »


First of all the group of Christians which don't believe in the divinity of Jesus are not as small as you think. Many don't even call themselves "unitarian" but when you ask "Do you believe Jesus is God" its not always a yes.  Everyone interprets it how they want due to the various contradictory verses in the Bible.

Secondly the group would also have been much larger had the trinitarians not systematically killed them off during the first several hundred of years after Jesus' death.

I've posted several times that the differences in Islamic sects are in no way similar to the different interpretations of Christiany. Our differences are in certain rulings but there is no confusion over something so fundamental as the monotheistic nature itself.

The Sufis are a definite sect of Islam that believes that God is in all things and all things are in Him.....a mystical sect, but a definite sect nonetheless.  In addition, they claim all visible and invisible beings are are emanation from God, and are not readily distinct from Him.   We refer to this theology as pantheism and it's a drastic depature from orthodox Islam.

Sufis also hold the belief that man can attain divinehood by being absorbed into the being of God.

Do the Sufis represent the monotheist majority of Sunnis and Shi'ites?  Certainly not.....in fact the only relationship to Islam is the fact the Sufis themselves just call themselves Muslims.....but, not really Muslims.

But where have we heard this kinda thing before? That's right, the Islamic position of Unitarian Christians representing the whole of orthodox Christianity....as mentioned previously you can also include Buddhist Christians, Islamic Christians, Naturalistic Christians, etc....again, not Christians.

So, as they say, it goes both ways.

I didn't even mention the Wahhabis, the Druze, the Alawite, the Ahmadiyas, Sikhism, Baha'i or black Muslims.  Sure monotheism is a core tenet, but again they each hold to heretical and/or extremist views that do not represent the core of Islam yet they all are nominal Muslims.   Now I'm not as arrogant as to claim to know the inner workings of these small sects, but they do exist and they do muddy the waters for Islam like many nominal Christians sects do for true Christians.  That said, it really isn't appropriate to use these types of arguments because it does go both ways.  I've left it alone until now because I keep getting thread after thread and post after post about Unitarian, Unitarian, Unitarian, Unitarian....ad nauseum.
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2012, 01:58:09 PM »

First of all there are many different types of sufis and not all believe what you just said, there are so many different tariqas/'orders', but a typical white western person will run across these new age style sufis with far off beliefs you  have mentioned. Likely to a westerner they will hear also about turkish derwish twirling, etc... Which indeed are far off and away from orthodox Islam and the qur'an.

The main point here is, fundamentally when looking at who God is, we do not have differences if we use the qur'an alone. Any of these deviated sects will be put in their place when confronted with verses from the qur'an. These sufis dwell into philosophy and their own made up conjectures about God just as you yourself do. They are closer to Hindu thought than qur'an sometimes. Everything being 'mystical' and actually quite alot like the way you think.

We have already posted countless verses which destroy or in the least contradict what you are preaching through the use of the bible.

It feels like a waste of time reposting these verses as you will ignore them or find some interpretation of your own making to justify the trinity. Yet if someone NEVER EVER heard of trinitarianism they would NOT conclude the trinity based on these verses. It's like what you asked me about my dream. I saw Jesus and he said there is only one God. You concluded on this "Jesus is God", now if you didn't hear of the trinity, would you conclude Jesus is God? You WANT to believe what you believe, that does not make it true. If I came to your dream and I said there is only one God, does that make me God? Absolutely not! Ridiculous!

The verses in particular pertaining to:


-Jesus not being able to do anything without God

-Jesus saying he is doing things through God's command

-Jesus always emphasizing not 'my will' but 'your will' (God's will)

-My father is greater than I (differentiation)

-Being seated at the right hand of God (differentiation again)

-Being called a prophet, rabbi, teacher, bleeding, crying to God, praying to God (human and dependant on God)

-Numerous examples of praying to God, one of most importance when he is with his companions and prays THREE TIMES to 'his God' (note that wording his God), and the third time his companions fall asleep but Jesus still prays to 'his God'!

-Jesus being tempted by the devil and being offered the whole world (so that would mean God is tempted by his creation?!? And being offered his creation?!?!)

-Jesus not knowing what God knows (such as the day of judgment/the hour)


You cannot seriously be accepted as clinically sane and accept the above as Jesus and God the same, unless you're bipolar and accept bipolar notions.
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Man of Steel
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Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15


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« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2012, 04:12:03 PM »

First of all there are many different types of sufis and not all believe what you just said, there are so many different tariqas/'orders', but a typical white western person will run across these new age style sufis with far off beliefs you  have mentioned. Likely to a westerner they will hear also about turkish derwish twirling, etc... Which indeed are far off and away from orthodox Islam and the qur'an.

The main point here is, fundamentally when looking at who God is, we do not have differences if we use the qur'an alone. Any of these deviated sects will be put in their place when confronted with verses from the qur'an. These sufis dwell into philosophy and their own made up conjectures about God just as you yourself do. They are closer to Hindu thought than qur'an sometimes. Everything being 'mystical' and actually quite alot like the way you think.

We have already posted countless verses which destroy or in the least contradict what you are preaching through the use of the bible.

It feels like a waste of time reposting these verses as you will ignore them or find some interpretation of your own making to justify the trinity. Yet if someone NEVER EVER heard of trinitarianism they would NOT conclude the trinity based on these verses. It's like what you asked me about my dream. I saw Jesus and he said there is only one God. You concluded on this "Jesus is God", now if you didn't hear of the trinity, would you conclude Jesus is God? You WANT to believe what you believe, that does not make it true. If I came to your dream and I said there is only one God, does that make me God? Absolutely not! Ridiculous!

The verses in particular pertaining to:


-Jesus not being able to do anything without God

-Jesus saying he is doing things through God's command

-Jesus always emphasizing not 'my will' but 'your will' (God's will)

-My father is greater than I (differentiation)

-Being seated at the right hand of God (differentiation again)

-Being called a prophet, rabbi, teacher, bleeding, crying to God, praying to God (human and dependant on God)

-Numerous examples of praying to God, one of most importance when he is with his companions and prays THREE TIMES to 'his God' (note that wording his God), and the third time his companions fall asleep but Jesus still prays to 'his God'!

-Jesus being tempted by the devil and being offered the whole world (so that would mean God is tempted by his creation?!? And being offered his creation?!?!)

-Jesus not knowing what God knows (such as the day of judgment/the hour)


You cannot seriously be accepted as clinically sane and accept the above as Jesus and God the same, unless you're bipolar and accept bipolar notions.

Have a blessed day ahmed!
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