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Author Topic: Obama starts 2nd term w 1.6 Trillion Tax Hike proposal.  (Read 2891 times)
Grape Ape
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« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2012, 09:24:53 AM »

It's not 3% from dollar 1 it's 3% on AGI > 250k

if you have an AGI of 300k you'll pay an extra 3% on the amount over 250k

In this example it's an extra  3% of 50k or a whopping $1500

If that's the case, then yes, that would cause me to change my feelings my post above.   I will do my research to make sure that's correct, unless you have a link handy.
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Shockwave
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« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2012, 09:25:07 AM »

Where?
Areas of New York, areas of L.A.
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Soul Crusher
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« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2012, 09:25:31 AM »

Where?

Manhattan, long island, westchester, NJ its middle class or upper-mid class.  

I hope that street punk gets his way - the economy is already tanking and this will just make it even worse.  

At thi point we deserve every miserable thing coming our way.  

Obama wins = America fails.  
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Option D
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« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2012, 09:27:06 AM »

Areas of New York, areas of L.A.

No where in LA is household income considered lower middle class
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MCWAY
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« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2012, 09:27:26 AM »

The tax hikes will be real although the projected revenue won't be nearly as much as they state.

The spending cuts, as usual, will be fictitious and never materialize.

Problem doesn't get solved but it will certainly get worse.

More half baked garbage for D.C.

See you guys at the next "HUGE EARTH KILLING CRISIS" in a couple of years.



And, therein lies the problem. The Dems NEVER go with the spending cuts.
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GigantorX
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« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2012, 09:27:32 AM »

so you're saying the Repubs will not be able to get any spending cuts through and you don't believe the Dems or Obama want any spending cuts at all either ?



First, nothing ever gets "cut." The budget grows every year in accordance with the law. Any and all "cuts" that are discussed aren't cuts from the budget itself but instead cuts to projected future spending. Budget still grows, problems aren't resolved, problem gets worse. When was the last time anything was ever actually cut from the baseline budget?

And no, I don't think either party wants real budget cuts, reform etc. Kick that can down the road, get the largess, get re-elected (their real job) and let the next guys handle it. Can't forget to start posturing for that shiny new lobbying job with Bank of America.

This whole "Fiscal Cliff" doomsday scenario is theater at its best. From the politicians to the media/entertainment complex.

My prediction:
-Media plays it up as Armageddon to scare the shit out of anyone and to capture ratings/attention.
-The politicians engage in solid political theater/magic show via news media/direct press conferences. They need to make it seem like they are fighting for our best interests.
-Nothing gets done, on purpose, market crashes, public freaks out as it's around the New Year/Post-Xmas.
-The politicians get together and kick the can down the road. They pat themselves on the back.
-Markets rise from another heroine/meth injection. Short lived.
-Scenario revisited in 4-6 years but this time with another snappy and attention grabbing name for it. Possibly derived from an acronym, something short and patriotic.

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War-Horse
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« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2012, 09:28:33 AM »

Manhattan, long island, westchester, NJ its middle class or upper-mid class.  

I hope that street punk gets his way - the economy is already tanking and this will just make it even worse.  

At thi point we deserve every miserable thing coming our way.  

Obama wins = America fails.  


So far not true chicken little.  Im seeing homes being built and people buying again.  But thanks for the positive attitude and well wishes for America....commie.
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Straw Man
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« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2012, 09:29:13 AM »

If that's the case, then yes, that would cause me to change my feelings my post above.   I will do my research to make sure that's correct, unless you have a link handy.

that's always been the case

the marginal tax rates are progressive

no offense intended but how do you not know this

all that anger over a misunderstanding ?
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Straw Man
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« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2012, 09:30:15 AM »

Where?

no where

the wealthiest county in the US has a median income of $115,574

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2012/04/24/americas-richest-counties/
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Straw Man
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« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2012, 09:30:49 AM »

And, therein lies the problem. The Dems NEVER go with the spending cuts.

who controls spending ?

the Dems?
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War-Horse
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« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2012, 09:31:56 AM »

that's always been the case

the marginal tax rates are progressive

no offense intended but how do you not know this

all that anger over a misunderstanding ?


Because Limbaugh forgot to say that part of it.
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GigantorX
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« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2012, 09:33:21 AM »

who controls spending ?

the Dems?

Does it matter?

The parties have changed seats of power and control many, many times but the trajectory and health of the United States as only trended one way.

I'm sorry, I have my cynical sad face on right now.
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MCWAY
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« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2012, 09:33:34 AM »

who controls spending ?

the Dems?

Because Limbaugh forgot to say that part of it.

It seems you two forget that any law has to get through the DEMOCRAT-CONTROLLED Senate.
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Grape Ape
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« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2012, 09:34:36 AM »

that's always been the case

the marginal tax rates are progressive

no offense intended but how do you not know this

all that anger over a misunderstanding ?

Why do you assume anger?  Message board discussion has very little emotional investment for me, and often just kills time while I wait on data.  Perhaps you're projecting?  No idea why you always feel the need to add on to make it confrontational.

I admitted in a post to you the other day that I had marginal exposure to researching this.  It's why I began my post with "correct me if my math is wrong".  Get it?

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Straw Man
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« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2012, 09:35:48 AM »

First, nothing ever gets "cut." The budget grows every year in accordance with the law. Any and all "cuts" that are discussed aren't cuts from the budget itself but instead cuts to projected future spending. Budget still grows, problems aren't resolved, problem gets worse. When was the last time anything was ever actually cut from the baseline budget?

And no, I don't think either party wants real budget cuts, reform etc. Kick that can down the road, get the largess, get re-elected (their real job) and let the next guys handle it. Can't forget to start posturing for that shiny new lobbying job with Bank of America.

This whole "Fiscal Cliff" doomsday scenario is theater at its best. From the politicians to the media/entertainment complex.

My prediction:
-Media plays it up as Armageddon to scare the shit out of anyone and to capture ratings/attention.
-The politicians engage in solid political theater/magic show via news media/direct press conferences. They need to make it seem like they are fighting for our best interests.
-Nothing gets done, on purpose, market crashes, public freaks out as it's around the New Year/Post-Xmas.
-The politicians get together and kick the can down the road. They pat themselves on the back.
-Markets rise from another heroine/meth injection. Short lived.
-Scenario revisited in 4-6 years but this time with another snappy and attention grabbing name for it. Possibly derived from an acronym, something short and patriotic.



some things do in fact get cut but I also agree that they often cut the growth of spending nad call it a cut, which in a sense it is

all that really matters is that through a combinantion of revenue increase and spending decrease that we are able to reduce the annual deficit and start paying down the debt and that we do it in a way that doesn't harm the economy.    I believe that those goals are possible and certainly more so with Obama as POTUS which is what the voters seem to have thought as wel

The Repubs agreed to teh "fiscal cliff" scneario thinking they were going win back the White House and then not have to deal with it.  

They fucked up and now they are in a panick because although they claim to love spending cuts it's only spending cuts that effect the lower and middle classes that they really love.  
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Soul Crusher
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« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2012, 09:35:57 AM »

Bottom line is that it takes more $$$$ out of an already DOA economy that is not going anywhere.  

What is obama going to do with the $$$$?  
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War-Horse
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« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2012, 09:36:13 AM »

And, therein lies the problem. The Dems NEVER go with the spending cuts.


Hmmmmm  lower the war budget by bringing our children home.   OR,  Robbing senior citizens and handi-capped of basic dignity.  
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Straw Man
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« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2012, 09:38:26 AM »

Why do you assume anger?  Message board discussion has very little emotional investment for me, and often just kills time while I wait on data.  Perhaps you're projecting?  No idea why you always feel the need to add on to make it confrontational.

I admitted in a post to you the other day that I had marginal exposure to researching this.  It's why I began my post with "correct me if my math is wrong".  Get it?

why are you assuming anger

If I have anything it's frustration that you (and there are no doubt millions of people like you) who are upset about a tax increase when you don't even understand how it works

As soon as I gave you what assumed was common knowledge you're suddenly ready to change your "feelings" which is a good thing but I'm just amazed you never knew that in the first place

again, no offense, but this is emblematic of most political discussions in this country
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Soul Crusher
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« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2012, 09:39:08 AM »


Hmmmmm  lower the war budget by bringing our children home.   OR,  Robbing senior citizens and handi-capped of basic dignity.  

Iraq war is supposedly over and we are already on pace for another year of $1.2 Trillion deficit. 

So much for that theory. 
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Straw Man
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« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2012, 09:40:41 AM »

Does it matter?
The parties have changed seats of power and control many, many times but the trajectory and health of the United States as only trended one way.

I'm sorry, I have my cynical sad face on right now.

of course it matters

wasn't that the Repubs claim when Dems control Congress that agreed upon spending cuts never materialize

If the Repubs fail to implement spending cuts then you have a point but then they have no remaining leg to stand on in defense of their own leadership
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War-Horse
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« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2012, 09:41:03 AM »

Bottom line is that it takes more $$$$ out of an already DOA economy that is not going anywhere.  

What is obama going to do with the $$$$?  


Do you live in a ghetto.  If so why dont you try to better yourself? You sure dont see reality thats for sure.
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Straw Man
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« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2012, 09:42:34 AM »

It seems you two forget that any law has to get through the DEMOCRAT-CONTROLLED Senate.

Dems don't really control the Senate wihout 60 votes (hopefully they change the rules next year) and my hope (go ahead and laugh) is the Dems, Repubs and the POTUS will finally work together on something

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Grape Ape
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« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2012, 09:42:50 AM »

why are you assuming anger

If I have anything it's frustration that you (and there are no doubt millions of people like you) who are upset about a tax increase when you don't even understand how it works

As soon as I gave you what assumed was common knowledge you're suddenly ready to change your "feelings" which is a good thing but I'm just amazed you never knew that in the first place

again, no offense, but this is emblematic of most political discussions in this country

According to this document, letting the Bush cuts expire, and not extending, causes a married couple filing jointly whose income is between 222.3 and 397k to go from 33% to 36%.  That is what I was referring to.  

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42485.pdf

Maybe we are discussing something different, or am I missing context by not reading the entire thing?
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War-Horse
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« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2012, 09:43:07 AM »

Iraq war is supposedly over and we are already on pace for another year of $1.2 Trillion deficit. 

So much for that theory. 


Okay and what would it be if the war was still in iraq?  Add it up for me and call Obama to thank him for the savings K?
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Straw Man
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« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2012, 09:43:41 AM »

Bottom line is that it takes more $$$$ out of an already DOA economy that is not going anywhere.  

What is obama going to do with the $$$$?  

just because your personal economy is DOA does not mean the rest of the country is

you should travel out of the ghetto occasionally and see how the non-whiners are doing
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