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Author Topic: Marlins/Blue Jays trade  (Read 1565 times)
blinky
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« on: November 15, 2012, 07:30:27 PM »

for those that dont know the details......

Blue Jays get
Reyes, Buehrle, Josh Johnson, Buck and Bonaficio

Marlins get
Alvarez, Escobar, Mathis, Hechavarria, Marsinick, DeSclafani, Nicolino



Im a Jays fan so obviously i love this trade. The Jays get great talent right now but the Marlins are getting some of the Jays top prospects.
BUT right now Bud Selig is apparently "reviewing" the trade and has yet to give it his OK. Besides the amount of players(12) plus $4million going to the Jays, i dont see why it is taking so long to get this approved. There is some talk that Selig may veto it because the fans in Miami are so upset and apparently some GM's dont like it either.

Its a fair trade to both teams(depending how u look at it). No f'in way this should get blocked!! Its not much different than the Red Sox/Dodgers trade


this makes the Jays a legit contender again in baseballs toughest division



GO JAYS
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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2012, 07:54:55 PM »

i live in TO and this has been the chatter all week...

awesome trade

we're in it to win it

buying season tickets for next season!
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2012, 12:14:43 AM »

Selig is just trying to pretend he's relevant. Dude should have stepped down after the steroid debacle.
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2012, 12:41:50 AM »

You can take josh Hamilton too Cheesy
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2012, 12:47:14 AM »

You can take josh Hamilton too Cheesy

I see Hamilton in Yankee pinstripes next year.
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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2012, 01:24:34 AM »

If I'm a Marlins fan im beyond irate.

If I'm a Jays fan then im ecstatic. It makes them relevant but they still arent a lock for the playoffs even with the trade.
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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2012, 05:43:11 AM »

I see Hamilton in Yankee pinstripes next year.

Doubtful.   They're not going to sign another long term deal.   Especially with Cano's looming.
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2012, 05:57:10 AM »

i live in TO and this has been the chatter all week...

awesome trade

we're in it to win it

buying season tickets for next season!
Please tell me the last time any of the 5 major sports franchises owned by MLSE won something? Sorry bud but those bastards have no interest in their teams winning.  A winning team will only mean giving viability to a second team to the gta.

MLSE fears this, and wether it be mls cfl ahl mlb or nhl will not let this happen.

Toronto is probably the best sports city in north america, because not only do you get the fandom of the 6 million in toronto, you get support of 34 million canadians along with it.

Nowhere else, is such a strong monopoly held, newyork, has multiple teams, LA the same.
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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2012, 06:07:47 AM »

I see Hamilton in Yankee pinstripes next year.


Talk about about a dude that should be nowhere near NYC.
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2012, 06:34:03 AM »

Marlins franchise are a bunch of crooks... so are a lot of sports organizations.
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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2012, 06:37:08 AM »

Selig is just trying to pretend he's relevant. Dude should have stepped down after the steroid debacle.

Haha, true.  If I am from Miami I am pissed.  They just whodoo'd these people into paying for that nice stadium, and then send all of their good players packing.  what a joke.
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« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2012, 09:53:54 AM »

Haha, true.  If I am from Miami I am pissed.  They just whodoo'd these people into paying for that nice stadium, and then send all of their good players packing.  what a joke.

Now, please trade Stanton to the Yankees.
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« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2012, 09:56:40 AM »

Canada Still has a Baseball team  Huh



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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2012, 10:20:15 AM »

Canada Still has a Baseball team  Huh




Yeah BJ's are real popular up hear. Way more than socks or yankees for some reason.
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« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2012, 11:25:33 AM »

Please tell me the last time any of the 5 major sports franchises owned by MLSE won something? Sorry bud but those bastards have no interest in their teams winning.  A winning team will only mean giving viability to a second team to the gta.

MLSE fears this, and wether it be mls cfl ahl mlb or nhl will not let this happen.

Toronto is probably the best sports city in north america, because not only do you get the fandom of the 6 million in toronto, you get support of 34 million canadians along with it.

Nowhere else, is such a strong monopoly held, newyork, has multiple teams, LA the same.
I agree completely, but Toronto only has 2million peeps.
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« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2012, 12:20:17 PM »

lots of talk now that Selig will approve it in a day or so
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« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2012, 12:27:45 PM »

wow AA is really going for it this year!!!

report from ESPN that the Jays have signed Melky Cabrera     http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=409620
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« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2012, 03:48:54 PM »

My dad & I have had a pair of season tickets, first row behind the plate, since day one in 1977.  New glory days for the Blue Jays franchise are on their way!
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« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2012, 07:50:08 PM »

My dad & I have had a pair of season tickets, first row behind the plate, since day one in 1977.  New glory days for the Blue Jays franchise are on their way!

daddy's little girl
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« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2012, 07:54:18 PM »

for those that dont know the details......

Blue Jays get
Reyes, Buehrle, Josh Johnson, Buck and Bonaficio

Marlins get
Alvarez, Escobar, Mathis, Hechavarria, Marsinick, DeSclafani, Nicolino



Im a Jays fan so obviously i love this trade. The Jays get great talent right now but the Marlins are getting some of the Jays top prospects.
BUT right now Bud Selig is apparently "reviewing" the trade and has yet to give it his OK. Besides the amount of players(12) plus $4million going to the Jays, i dont see why it is taking so long to get this approved. There is some talk that Selig may veto it because the fans in Miami are so upset and apparently some GM's dont like it either.

Its a fair trade to both teams(depending how u look at it). No f'in way this should get blocked!! Its not much different than the Red Sox/Dodgers trade


this makes the Jays a legit contender again in baseballs toughest division



GO JAYS

The Jays got better and may now contend for the AL pennant.
The poor Marlins couldn't do worse if they hired Ozzy G to do a  strip show on the dugout between innngs.
Next yr their  will be more on the field then in Marlins stadium watching the game.
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« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2012, 09:25:34 PM »

I agree completely, but Toronto only has 2million peeps.

City of T.O. has 2.6 mil.  Greater Toronto Area has over 6 mil.
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« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2012, 04:20:45 PM »

Melky's a risky signing.  He's not a phenomenal ballplayer that decided to use, but appeared to be a phenomenal ballplayer BECAUSE he used.   He's also always never been one for conditioning, but got his act together when he almost played himself out of the game.

But I'm not sold on Toronto yet.   Johnson's a very good add, but Buehrle has struggled in the AL east.  Toronto needs to get 16 games better just to get to .500.
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« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2012, 05:04:34 PM »

First of all.....TRADE IS FINALIZED!!!!!! Go JAYS




But I'm not sold on Toronto yet.   Johnson's a very good add, but Buehrle has struggled in the AL east.  Toronto needs to get 16 games better just to get to .500.

Its not really fair to make that assesment from last year. Last years team was DECIMATED by injuries. Most of their starting roation was gone almost the whole year. Their closer was lost after about the first month. Bautista was gone for most of the 2nd half of the year. Arencibia was gone for 2 months. Lawrie was injured for about a month. If you have a healthy Bautista and even 1 starter...they would have been close to a .500 team. With a full healthy team they would have been a few games over .500


With a healthy Bautista, Cabrera and Davis splitting LF, a MUCH improved starting rotation now with the addition of Johnson and Buehrle(leadership will be great), vastly improved middle infield(Reyes/Izturis) this team will make a serious push for the playoffs

 


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« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2012, 06:42:12 PM »

First of all.....TRADE IS FINALIZED!!!!!! Go JAYS



Its not really fair to make that assesment from last year. Last years team was DECIMATED by injuries. Most of their starting roation was gone almost the whole year. Their closer was lost after about the first month. Bautista was gone for most of the 2nd half of the year. Arencibia was gone for 2 months. Lawrie was injured for about a month. If you have a healthy Bautista and even 1 starter...they would have been close to a .500 team. With a full healthy team they would have been a few games over .500


With a healthy Bautista, Cabrera and Davis splitting LF, a MUCH improved starting rotation now with the addition of Johnson and Buehrle(leadership will be great), vastly improved middle infield(Reyes/Izturis) this team will make a serious push for the playoffs


All teams will make a push due to the new WC format, even those around .500.

But you can't blame injuries.  The Yankees and Sox were decimated as well.   Thinking that this trade makes Toronto a 93+ win team is unrealistic to me.  Romero can't continue to be awful, and Beurhle can't stink.

It's a good trade, but I don't think they're there yet.   Fangraphs, however, thinks they have a shot:

Quote
The Blue Jays — Now Competitive On Paper
by Jack Moore - November 14, 2012

The Toronto Blue Jays are going for it. They’ve hit the jackpot on Jose Bautista and Edwin Encarnacion, and it’s time to cash in. They’ll try to do it with Josh Johnson, Jose Reyes, Mark Buehrle, Emilio Bonifacio, John Buck joining from Miami.

As lopsided as the blockbuster trade seems in their favor, make no mistake, the Blue Jays did pay a price in acquiring most of the Marlins’ payroll. Between the $165 million in contract obligations and the prospects sent out, the Blue Jays hampered their ability to improve their roster beyond this trade.

So the new roster better be worth it. How does it stack up?

Last year’s Blue Jays scored only 0.03 runs per game fewer than the average AL team. Although being sub-average in any sense is hardly impressive, the Jays received just 92 games out of Jose Bautista and gave over 100 plate appearances each to Jeff Mathis, Omar Vizquel, Eric Thames, Moises Sierra, David Cooper, Adeiny Hechavarria and Yan Gomes. They combined for -29.7 batting runs in 1100 plate appearances.

The middle infield is completely redone between Reyes and some combination of Bonifacio and free agent acquisition Maicier Izturis. Although the trio combined for exactly 0 batting runs above average in 2012, it’s a far sight better than the old double play combo of Yunel Escobar and Kelly Johnson — -23.7 batting runs in 1189 plate appearances last season.

The main punch in the lineup still comes from Bautista and Encarnacion, as they combined for 69 home runs in just 1043 plate appearances. Brett Lawrie was still a league-average hitter despite failing to showcase his rookie season’s definitive mammoth power. Those three and Reyes will form the base of this lineup. Together, the four have combined for 192 batting runs above average and 34 WAR since 2011. That is, all four have played at or near an All-Star level over the past two seasons.

The installment of Reyes and the return of Bautista alone should make the Blue Jays lineup an above-average one. Will the rest of the squad be able to push it to the next level? Colby Rasmus and J.P. Arencibia each hit for (41 homers combined) but nothing else. Each posted a second straight sub-95 wRC+. Adam Lind was demoted to the minors and posted just a .414 SLG and 98 wRC+ split between DH and first base. Anthony Gose struck out more than once per game in his debut. There’s still big upside, though, at least in the catcher and left field spots: Gose is an exciting prospect with speed and defense already, and club top prospect Travis d’Arnaud could take the starting catcher spot from Arenicibia at some point in 2013.

The bench should be improved. Between Bonifacio, Izturis and Rajai Davis, the Jays can cover the entire non-battery, non-first base field with just three players. John Buck still outhit Jeff Mathis with a .235 BABIP.

If the pitching staff doesn’t improve, though, all hitting points are moot. At 4.84 runs allowed per game, Toronto was nearly a half-run worse than the league average. The Jays suffered injury after injury, forcing 27 starts to effectively replacement level or worse pitchers (Brett Cecil, Chad Jenkins, Kyle Drabek, Jesse Chavez).

The starts doled out to those four pitchers and Henderson Alvarez (187.1 IP, 4.85 ERA, 5.18 FIP) are now slated for Josh Johnson and Mark Buehrle. Even with Johnson’s down year, the duo combined for a 3.77 ERA and 3.79 FIP. The move to the AL could hurt, but Buehrle spent most of his career succeeding in an even tougher park and Johnson could return to his 2010-2011 levels (2.14 ERA, 2.47 FIP in 244 innings). Johnson’s shoulder could go at any time, but he could also return more than most free agent starters will in a full season over 20 starts if he finds his 2010-2011 performance.

Then there’s the two returners: Brandon Morrow and Ricky Romero. Morrow figured it out last year. He missed two months with an oblique injury, but in 21 starts he posted a 2.96 ERA and 3.65 FIP — the season roundly squashed the idea he was a new Ricky Nolasco-esque prototype for pitchers who always underperform their peripheral statistics. He induced more ground balls than fly balls for the first time ever and maintained a solid 2.6 K/BB. He’s not an ace, but he serves well as a number two or number three in a good rotation — exactly what the Blue Jays will ask of him this season.

There was thought for a time Ricky Romero could be an ace; 2012 may have squashed that concept as well. Romero underwent arthroscopic surgery and said he was pitching through pain for much of the season; if injury was the root cause or even just part of his problem, he should serve well as the Jays’ fourth starter if healthy for 2013. He still induced tons of ground balls — 53.5 percent of batted balls against 54.4 percent career — but oddly enough, he just can’t retire left-handers. Fellow southpaws own a .370 wOBA off him in 996 chances, including 33 home runs — just 14 fewer than against nearly 1500 more righties. Combine that with a K/BB mark never exceeding 2.23 for a season and expecting more than a number two-number three type is unrealistic. Thanks to the other additions, it’s all they need.

J.A. Happ and Brett Cecil look like the top competitors for the fifth starter job. Neither may be on the team in two months. Bigger problems have been solved in shorter order, although it is worth noting the Jays are already some $10 million over their 2008 record $97 million payroll and may not have much more to spend.

The bullpen was an issue, but post-Francisco Cordero most problems came from the middle-inning relievers. Casey Janssen excelled in Sergio Santos‘s absence, posting a 2.54 ERA and 3.08 FIP. Darren Oliver remained one of the best (and most versatile) left-handed relievers in the league, posting a 2.06 ERA and 2.95 FIP in 56.2 innings while stifling batters from both sides of he plate and will be back if he doesn’t retire. Steve Delabar showed some of the biggest strikeout stuff in the majors (14.1 K/9 in 29.1 innings for Toronto). And Santos should be back and ready to go when 2013 rolls around.

Like the issues with the fifth starter, the final few bullpen spots will work themselves out. The Jays could use veterans like Brandon Lyon (3.10 ERA, 3.23 FIP in 61 innings last year between Houston and Toronto) or Jason Frasor (4.12 ERA, 4.10 FIP in 43.2 innings) or they could dip into the ever-plentiful free agent reliever market; it is far too early to map out yet.

If the Blue Jays plan on making the playoffs, they probably need to find 22 more wins this year than the 73 they squeezed out of 2012. It’s difficult to make that happen with one trade, but if one ever had a chance it’s this. The new middle infield looks to pick up anywhere from four to six wins; the improved starting pitching another six to 10. Add another one for the better bench and we’re still a little short — maybe 17 wins instead of 22. But with improved health — from Jose Bautista and Ricky Romero specifically and the entire team generally — the Blue Jays have a distinct chance at 95 wins in 2012, and with it a playoff berth either through the division championship or a Wild Card.

How meaningful is it to be competitive on paper? Plenty of teams have done it before and fizzled out, never to be heard from again. But for this Blue Jays club and Alex Anthopolous specifically, this was the next step — find a team with the potential to reach the playoffs if just a few things go right. Now it just has to come together on the field.
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« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2012, 09:19:22 PM »

All teams will make a push due to the new WC format, even those around .500.

But you can't blame injuries.  The Yankees and Sox were decimated as well.   Thinking that this trade makes Toronto a 93+ win team is unrealistic to me.  Romero can't continue to be awful, and Beurhle can't stink.

It's a good trade, but I don't think they're there yet.   Fangraphs, however, thinks they have a shot:


i know you cant always blame injuries...every team gets them. But the Jays were extensive last year(yes sox too)

all im saying is if they stay healthy(even half of last year) and with the added talent this off season, i think they are a legit contender for a playoff spot after MANY years.

also i think there may be at least 1 more move coming. The Jays have an excess of catchers right now and someone needs to go...Arencibia, Buck, d'Arnaud
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