You've got to be fucking kidding me

[Shockwave]

They didn't have a navy so conflict was reserved between neighboring tribes, and there was a lot of conflict between Native American tribes.  When a country gets a navy, a conquering they will go. 

Yep. It's human nature.

[garebear]

They didn't have a navy so conflict was reserved between neighboring tribes, and there was a lot of conflict between Native American tribes.  When a country gets a navy, a conquering they will go. 

Fair enough.

I was alluding more to the fact that anyone can call anyone a terrorist and, for the most part, mighty entities don't ever get called on it.

[Archer77]

Yep. It's human nature.

They also didn't have horses either which limited their scope.  Horses died of 8000 years ago in North America.

Fair enough.

I was alluding more to the fact that anyone can call anyone a terrorist and, for the most part, mighty entities don't ever get called on it.

I definitely agree.

[The True Adonis]

.

You have no idea how many innocent people Native Americans slaughtered and how they enslaved many settlers as well as pillaged many towns, villages and settlements.

[Nirvana]

[Nails]

[garebear]

You have no idea how many innocent people Native Americans slaughtered and how they enslaved many settlers as well as pillaged many towns, villages and settlements.

Oh shit, are you going to top your idiocy on how the slaves liked slavery?

Even I find it ironic that I agree with you so often.

If you're a troll, you're a damn good one.

You have a knack for taking relatively small injustices, given the larger picture, and pretending they're equal. It's strange, considering your otherwise high degree of rationality. Why do you do that? Is it because your identity is tied up in a side?

Do yourself a favor and be a bigger man than that.

[The True Adonis]

Oh shit, are you going to top your idiocy on how the slaves liked slavery?

Even I find it ironic that I agree with you so often.

If you're a troll, you're a damn good one.

You have a knack for taking relatively small injustices, given the larger picture, and pretending they're equal. It's strange, considering your otherwise high degree of rationality. Why do you do that? Is it because your identity is tied up in a side?

Do yourself a favor and be a bigger man than that.

If you read American History, you will quickly find that your beloved Native Americans were not so innocent and civilized/peace loving as you`d like to believe.  You decided to post that silly little graphic portraying them as innocent, when in fact they readily used violence and engaged in despicable acts such as dismemberment of children after rape or enslaving them and then proceeding to sacrifice them at a later date.  These are not isolated incidents either and are were pretty widespread among all of the tribes. 

A good book you should read is, Blood and Thunder.  Start there.

[garebear]

If you read American History, you will quickly find that your beloved Native Americans were not so innocent and civilized/peace loving as you`d like to believe.  You decided to post that silly little graphic portraying them as innocent, when in fact they readily used violence and engaged in despicable acts such as dismemberment of children after rape or enslaving them and then proceeding to sacrifice them at a later date.  These are not isolated incidents either and are were pretty widespread among all of the tribes. 

A good book you should read is, Blood and Thunder.  Start there.

I never claimed otherwise and you know it.

I don't expect a lot of intellectual honesty from people on these boards, but I expect it from you. You're not delivering.

If, per chance, you want to pretend that Native Americans were aggressors and deserved essential genocide, then that is one thing. That argument is so childish as to be laughable, but that's your prerogative.

At what point will you grow up on history? You bash so many others on here for their crazy narratives (and rightly so), but you have a flat out stupid view on so many key points of American history, that I sometimes doubt your seriousness on issues.

Your essential argument, therefore, is that an invading occupier has every right to the new land and that any resistance, brutality aside, is morally justifiable. Is that correct?

You, at strange points in debates, cease making any sense at all.

[NordicNerd]

...
Or ...this:


Manipulative,duplicit,lazy, parasitic, provocative, violent, hateful "people" who use their kids as cannon fodder and want to destroy everything and impose their shitty islam that never allowed them to rise above huts made of feces and the middle age.
 Wont even mention most of them are iliterate and have 0 education, just cannon fodder for fanatical manipulative imams who are at the top of the muslim pyramid maintaining everyone else in poverty and constant violence. Islam doesnt improve individuals, it makes them develop evil instead of goodness.

...

Oh well, Islam was something else in the age of the Moors.






The blue mosque is not bad either:



NN

[Nails]

[The True Adonis]

I never claimed otherwise and you know it.

I don't expect a lot of intellectual honesty from people on these boards, but I expect it from you. You're not delivering.

If, per chance, you want to pretend that Native Americans were aggressors and deserved essential genocide, then that is one thing. That argument is so childish as to be laughable, but that's your prerogative.

At what point will you grow up on history? You bash so many others on here for their crazy narratives (and rightly so), but you have a flat out stupid view on so many key points of American history, that I sometimes doubt your seriousness on issues.

Your essential argument, therefore, is that an invading occupier has every right to the new land and that any resistance, brutality aside, is morally justifiable. Is that correct?

You, at strange points in debates, cease making any sense at all.

You are making the illogical leap that everyone who came to America to colonize or what have you was somehow an "illegal occupier".   That is incredibly juvenile and so far from the truth.  Native Americans certainly did not have any more right to the land than anyone else and for what its worth the lands they did inhabit, were not really encroached on from the outset.  Settlers knew that Native Americans were hostile for no reason whatsoever other than being opportunists and following their religious savagery.  Their religions certainly were not peace-like.  Every bit of their culture, each different tribe, were based in violence and war.  Not only did they practice violence to themselves, but to everyone else as well as they were opportunists.  Peace was not really a concept they valued among themselves and with others.


You ought to read more Native American history.  The pipe smoking tribe, looking to just hunt on "sacred land" is a complete myth.

[Shockwave]

You are making the illogical leap that everyone who came to America to colonize or what have you was somehow an "illegal occupier".   That is incredibly juvenile and so far from the truth.  Native Americans certainly did not have any more right to the land than anyone else and for what its worth the lands they did inhabit, were not really encroached on from the outset.  Settlers knew that Native Americans were hostile for no reason whatsoever other than being opportunists and following their religious savagery.  Their religions certainly were not peace-like.  Every bit of their culture, each different tribe, were based in violence and war.  Not only did they practice violence to themselves, but to everyone else as well as they were opportunists.  Peace was not really a concept they valued among themselves and with others.


You ought to read more Native American history.  The pipe smoking tribe, looking to just hunt on "sacred land" is a complete myth.

I'm part Native and I approve this message.

[Nails]

[The True Adonis]

I never claimed otherwise and you know it.

I don't expect a lot of intellectual honesty from people on these boards, but I expect it from you. You're not delivering.

If, per chance, you want to pretend that Native Americans were aggressors and deserved essential genocide, then that is one thing. That argument is so childish as to be laughable, but that's your prerogative.

At what point will you grow up on history? You bash so many others on here for their crazy narratives (and rightly so), but you have a flat out stupid view on so many key points of American history, that I sometimes doubt your seriousness on issues.

Your essential argument, therefore, is that an invading occupier has every right to the new land and that any resistance, brutality aside, is morally justifiable. Is that correct?

You, at strange points in debates, cease making any sense at all.

Perhaps its that I don`t suffer from a rose colored view of revisionist history that is so prevalent among most people.  I like to go to direct sources and work from there.

[Nails]

 

[MCWAY]

everyone is responsible for their actions, all of those dying in palestine deserve it as they want to destroy jews, israel. Not going to shed a tear for them. Never forget that as a white occidental infidel, you re nothing to them.

Jihad: It's all fun and games for the Palestinians, until Israel starts spanking that behind.

Then, they run to the UN, demanding that it put the cuffs on Israel.

[Archer77]

Perhaps its that I don`t suffer from a rose colored view of revisionist history that is so prevalent among most people.  I like to go to direct sources and work from there.

To be fair, to go directly to the source you'd have to have a time machine.  I'm just kidding with ya.  The truth is that there is no culture that has ever existed on Earth who hasn't abused another group or their own group at some point.  The idea of Native Americans as peace pipe smoking proto-hippies is ridiculous. And, for the record, I have a masters in history not that this fact means I know everything.

[OTHstrong]

Perhaps its that I don`t suffer from a rose colored view of revisionist history that is so prevalent among most people.  I like to go to direct sources and work from there.

WOW, garebear is crazy naive,... good job on giving him a dose of reality, like he has never read a history book before, no offence garebear,

TA is right on this one,... look, this is how it works, every race on the planet has conquered, every race on the planet has killed. No race can be condemned for this, humans are killers at heart, we are all guilty alike, what makes the difference is 2 things, the reason why a race kills and the amount of physical pain caused before the kill, that's it, this is how one determines the level of savagery on the race, these are the only 2 factors that matter.

Now there are races that kill for no reason but greed or some stupid ambitious leader, this classifies the level of barbarism high on a scale of 1-10. There are races that have good reason to fight and must do so but if in the process they start inflicting extreme pain before they kill then this also scores high on a scale of 1-10 and I am sorry to say but the Native Americans where second to non on inflicting pain.

[arce1988]

Israel has 05 dead and 50 wounded



the other poor people have 150 dead and 1,000 wounded


is this even fair?

[Shockwave]

Israel has 05 dead and 50 wounded



the other poor people have 150 dead and 1,000 wounded


is this even fair?

Sounds like our war with Iraq.

[Dr Dutch]

Whoever is right or wrong: those Israeli girl soldiers look hot like hell...

[arce1988]

[Dr Dutch]

She would drop those Palestines...

[Natural Man]

Iron Dome Spoils The Hamas Surprise Attack    Next Article → ARMOR: FrankenStryker Makes An Appearance
 November 20, 2012: Israel has bought seven batteries of Iron Dome anti-rocket missiles. Four are in action and a fifth one entered service several weeks early (on November 17) because of the major rocket assault Hamas and other Islamic terror groups in Gaza launched on November 14th. Over 500 rockets were launched during the first two days, but then the number began to decline. On Saturday (the 17th) 230 rockets were fired, with only 156 on Saturday, and 121 on Monday. While the Palestinians have fired over a thousand rockets into Israel so far, and killed three Israelis, their effort is faltering and the Israeli response is not. Few of the rockets landed in occupied areas. That’s because Iron Dome has been able to detect and destroy 90 percent of the rockets that were going to land in an area containing people. The Israeli military says they have shot down over 300 rockets so far.
Iron Dome uses two radars to quickly calculate the trajectory of the incoming rocket and do nothing if the rocket trajectory indicates it is going to land in an uninhabited area. But if the computers predict a rocket coming down in an inhabited area, guided missiles are fired to intercept the rocket. This makes the system cost-effective. That's because Hezbollah fired 4,000 rockets in 2006, and Palestinian terrorists in Gaza have fired over six thousand rockets in the past eight years and the Israelis know where each of them landed. Over 90 percent of these rockets landed in uninhabited areas, and few of those that did hit inhabited areas caused casualties. Israel already has a radar system in place that gives some warning of approaching rockets. Iron Dome uses that system, in addition to another, more specialized, radar in southern Israel.

The Palestinians had been making and breaking ceasefire deals for years but threw away all pretense of making peace after one of the Israeli retaliatory air strikes killed the head of Hamas military operations. Israel had threatened to resume its missile attacks against Hamas leaders if the rocket and mortar attacks on southern Israel did not stop. So on the 14th Israel began shooting at Hamas leaders again and Hamas decided it was time for a major attack against Israel, if only to protect the terrorist group leadership.

Five years ago an Israeli campaign against key terrorist personnel severely restricted the movements of Hamas leaders and forced the terrorist group to agree to a ceasefire. But that deal has fallen apart now because Hamas would not control the smaller Islamic terror groups who continued to attack Israel. Now that Israel has resumed its attacks on all terrorist leaders in Gaza, Hamas is screaming “war crimes” (and getting some support in the West), but the resumption of these attacks appears to be the only thing that can get the Hamas leadership to keep their word. On the down side, the smaller Islamic terror groups in Gaza have become larger and now threaten civil war and the possibility of Hamas rule ending (to be replaced by an even worse crew of Islamic radicals). The only other Israeli option is a ground campaign, like the one in 2009. But that risks more Israeli casualties. Israel does not want to send in ground troops, as this will lead to more Israeli deaths. But the ground operation is obviously an option given the large force of Israeli troops and armored vehicles now gathered at the Gaza border.

Since Hamas is a big believer in using civilians as human shields (often against their will), a ground campaign would get a lot more Palestinians killed. So the attacks against specific terrorist leaders are seen as the better option. Even this risks civilian casualties because Hamas puts its government and military facilities in residential neighborhoods. It has also, on the advice of its Hezbollah advisors, built rocket launchers near mosques, schools, hospitals, and residences. The Israelis have distributed lots of videos of Palestinian rockets being fired in this way. Still, most Arab and some Western media keep maintaining that Israel is at fault for defending itself or simply existing.

This latest war with the Palestinians has been a major test for the Iron Dome system. Each battery has radar and control equipment and four missile launchers. Each battery costs about $37 million, which includes over fifty Tamir missiles (costing $40,000 each). In the two years before this month Iron Dome had intercepted over 100 rockets headed for populated areas. In the last week Iron Dome has intercepted at least another 300 rockets.

The Palestinians are believed to have tried to defeat Iron Dome by firing a lot of long range missiles simultaneously at a few cities. In theory this could overwhelm one or two Iron Dome batteries. But Israel is keeping 24/7 UAV watch on Gaza and have so far spotted attempts at large scale simultaneous launchers and bombed many of the launch sites. This has resulted in many rockets destroyed on the ground or launching erratically and landing within Gaza or nowhere near where they were aimed. Because Iron Dome can track hundreds of incoming missiles, quickly plot their trajectory and likely landing spot, and ignore the majority that will not land near people, the Palestinians have to put hundreds of larger (long range) missiles into the air at the same time to be sure of causing lots of Israeli casualties. So far the Palestinians have been unable to get enough rockets into the air at the same time and at the rate Israeli aircraft are bombing Hamas rocket storage sites (and setting off secondary explosions of the rockets to confirm the hit), the Palestinians will be out of rockets in another week or so.  

Earlier this month Israel successfully completed tests of new software for its Iron Dome anti-rocket system. The improvements enable the Iron Dome missiles to intercept incoming rockets farther away. The 90 kg (200 pound) three meter (9.8 foot) long Tamir missiles use a proximity fuze to detonate near the incoming rocket.

The Palestinian rocket attacks have been around since 2001, but got much worse once Israel pulled out of Gaza in August of 2005. This was a peace gesture that backfired. From 2001 to 2005, about 700 rockets were fired from Gaza into Israel. Since the 2005 withdrawal, over 5,000 more rockets were fired into Israel. The rate of firings increased after Hamas took control of Gaza in June, 2007.

Hamas has been bringing in more factory made Iranian and Chinese made BM-21 and BM-12 rockets. Israel believes Hamas currently has, in Gaza, factory-made BM-21 rockets, each with a range of 20-40 kilometers. They also have some shorter range (six kilometers) Russian designed B-12 rockets. The 122mm BM-21s weigh 68.2 kg (150 pounds) and are 2.9 meters (nine feet) long. These have 20.5 kg (45 pound) warheads but not much better accuracy than the 107mm model. However, these larger rockets have a maximum range of 20 kilometers. Again, because they are unguided, they are only effective if fired in salvos or at large targets (like cities, large military bases, or industrial complexes). There are Egyptian and Chinese variants that have smaller warheads and larger rocket motors, giving them a range of about 40 kilometers. Israel believes there are dozens of Iranian Fajr rockets, with a range of 70 kilometers, plus several hundred extended-range (40 kilometers) 122mm rockets, and even more standard range (20 kilometers) 122mm rockets in Gaza. There are believed to be over 10,000 rockets stored in Gaza. Iron Dome was designed to detect and hit those with a range of 10 kilometers or more, as these could reach more heavily populated areas of Israel. While Hamas always hinted at negotiating an extended ceasefire with Israel, it still maintained that the ultimate goal is the destruction of Israel.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20121120.aspx

truth is that hamas is getting pounded in the ass more and more everytime they start a fight, then they ask for "peace" to regroup over and over again... sneaky pos.