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Author Topic: NFL Rushing Attack..Who best running back..ever?  (Read 11713 times)
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« Reply #75 on: December 01, 2012, 03:17:10 PM »

Have you guys forgot that a running back who kept breaking NFL records left and right retired this past off season? Ladainian Tomlinson ring a bell?
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3_DeS9nKBY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3_DeS9nKBY</a>

This guy was an agile, yet north and south runner like Walter Payton, had vision and reflexes like Barry Sanders, and had the athleticism of Emmit Smith...oh yeah a stiff arm like Jim Brown too.

With all of that being said, he's still #2 behind Barry...They are both "the best to have never won the big one."

But that kind of goes to the heart of it.  You can't really call out the 'best of all time' if they didn't win the big one.  That goes for any sport.  Lot of great soccer players...but the best brought home the WC.  Lots of great quarterbacks...but the bet brought home the SB.  It's not necessarilly fair but it's what separates the best from the legends.
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« Reply #76 on: December 01, 2012, 03:26:19 PM »

back in the day these guys took no prisoners.


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« Reply #77 on: December 01, 2012, 04:04:36 PM »

Although I agree Sanders was the best ever, the Lions teams he played on were as good or better than the Bears teams Payton played on.

Sanders
Brown
Payton

85 Bears were one of the greatest teams of all time. No Lions team...probably ever...come close to that team.
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« Reply #78 on: December 01, 2012, 04:14:51 PM »

Give me Los Angeles Raider Marcus TD Allen



<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n36BMWSbsCI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n36BMWSbsCI</a>
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« Reply #79 on: December 01, 2012, 04:19:12 PM »

1. Marcus Allen
2. Barry Sanders
3. Walter Payton
4. Oj Simpson
5. Eric Dickerson.
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« Reply #80 on: December 01, 2012, 04:20:44 PM »

But that kind of goes to the heart of it.  You can't really call out the 'best of all time' if they didn't win the big one.  That goes for any sport.  Lot of great soccer players...but the best brought home the WC.  Lots of great quarterbacks...but the bet brought home the SB.  It's not necessarilly fair but it's what separates the best from the legends.

Some players transcend that:  Barry Sanders is one of those.
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« Reply #81 on: December 01, 2012, 05:31:43 PM »

If Bo Jackson would have chosen just Football and stayed healthy I thinf we would have been calling him the best ever! Certainly the best athlete!
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« Reply #82 on: December 01, 2012, 06:45:05 PM »

Pure runner...Barry Sanders (college and pro)...only dude even close was Gale Sayers IMO.

Overall Walter Payton

Jim Brown running over 180lb nonathletic dudes...good...but not jaw dropping.

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« Reply #83 on: December 01, 2012, 07:02:52 PM »

without a doubt he played when football was a sport for real men. not this sissified game they play now..... this is how you treated a quarterback when brown played.

Haha yeah back in the days when a quarterback was essentially cooked meat by the time he was 30 years old because of all the dirty hits he took! Smiley
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« Reply #84 on: December 01, 2012, 08:28:04 PM »

All due respect to Bo Jackson, but a few Monday night heroics and a Nike commercial or two don't make for the greatest NFL running back of all time. Best athlete, maybe, best RB, no.

Bo played 38 NFL games and rushed for 27XX yards. If you want to talk about guys cut down early by injury, excluding the great Gale Sayers, even Billy Sims (58 games 51XX yards) was a better back than Bo.

A lot of "what ifs" with Bo, but the NFL is full of guys like that (Marcus Dupree).
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« Reply #85 on: December 01, 2012, 10:11:27 PM »

in my opinion the statistic which gives the most weight to a players abilities are the qualitative statistics which measure average performance per effort. for example, average yards per carry. earned run average (era). pass completion %. batting average. 3 point %. sacks per season. etc.

that being said, other considerations should also weigh in. for example, performance under pressure. quality of competitors and team mates.


i do not think that total yards, total completions, total touchdowns, total hits, total strikeouts, etc.. mean much in terms of quality.  they do speak on quantity however.


now, as for my pick for best running back of all time....   barry sanders.
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« Reply #86 on: December 02, 2012, 01:22:28 AM »

I look at yards per carry and career yards per game when I rate running backs.  Total career rushing yards is great but it can favor toward guys who played past their primes.  I like guys like Jim Brown and Barry Sanders that played like Superman and retired before they started to slip.

Barry Sanders

Career yards per carry = 5.0
Career yards per game = 99.8

The dude got it done every year, no excuses.  Staying healthy helps too.  Bo Jackson could have been one of the greats but unfortunatley we will never know.  I like LT but in my eyes he is second tier.   
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« Reply #87 on: December 02, 2012, 01:29:23 AM »

I look at yards per carry and career yards per game when I rate running backs.  Total career rushing yards is great but it can favor toward guys who played past their primes.  I like guys like Jim Brown and Barry Sanders that played like Superman and retired before they started to slip.

Barry Sanders

Career yards per carry = 5.0
Career yards per game = 99.8

The dude got it done every year, no excuses.  Staying healthy helps too.  Bo Jackson could have been one of the greats but unfortunatley we will never know.  I like LT but in my eyes he is second tier.   

Until the playoffs came and he shit the bed with his numbers taking a nose dive.

Look up the post season stats and then come back and give me your best excuse.

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« Reply #88 on: December 02, 2012, 04:15:47 AM »

Football is a team sport and an outstanding back can not raise the level of play of the guys around him.  Barry Sanders was not drafted by the Redskins, 49ers, or Giants.  Detroit was and is one of the worst franchises in the NFL. 

Emmitt Smith was great in the playoffs running behind Nate Newton, Stepnoski, and Tuinei.  They had Aikman, Michael Irvin, Harper and Daryl Johnston.  What does it really prove?   Timmy Smith ran for 204 yards in Superbowl XXII.  Does that make him an elite back?  No, he was playing on a superior team against an overmatched defense.  Walter Payton fumbled on the opening possesion of Superbowl XX and didn't score in the game.  So what?
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« Reply #89 on: December 02, 2012, 07:55:21 AM »

bronco legursky

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« Reply #90 on: December 02, 2012, 07:59:34 AM »

Football is a team sport and an outstanding back can not raise the level of play of the guys around him.  Barry Sanders was not drafted by the Redskins, 49ers, or Giants.  Detroit was and is one of the worst franchises in the NFL. 

Emmitt Smith was great in the playoffs running behind Nate Newton, Stepnoski, and Tuinei.  They had Aikman, Michael Irvin, Harper and Daryl Johnston.  What does it really prove?   Timmy Smith ran for 204 yards in Superbowl XXII.  Does that make him an elite back?  No, he was playing on a superior team against an overmatched defense.  Walter Payton fumbled on the opening possesion of Superbowl XX and didn't score in the game.  So what?

Care to guess how many of those "ultra badass" offensive linemen you named blocking for Emmitt had pro bowls before he arrived? A big fat zero. And they were both pros for almost 10 years each before him!

It's amazing how much better a gritty running back consistently moving the chains without fumbling can make an offensive line look and how bad an offensive line can also look when a guy is dancing around for losses trying to hit the homerun and by doing so putting his team in second/third and longs.

Mark Tuinei?? Nate Newton?? Haha okay man!! Those guys NOBODIES before Emmitt. Loving that revisionist history and total disregard for stats that you keep putting out!

And quit with the nonsense with Detroit was one of the worst franchises back in the 1990s, that's just total nonsense and I can't put it any simpler than that. "Worst franchises" are like what the Chiefs or Jaguars have now. Not a Detroit defense that was middle of the road, 2 pro bowl offensive lineman, 1 definite badass receiver and another who had a 100 catch season and maybe the best running back of all time. Yeah a real shit group they had there in Detroit  Roll Eyes  
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« Reply #91 on: December 02, 2012, 08:06:02 AM »

Care to guess how many of those "ultra badass" offensive linemen you named blocking for Emmitt had pro bowls before he arrived? A big fat zero. And they were both pros for almost 10 years each before him!

It's amazing how much better a gritty running back consistently moving the chains without fumbling can make an offensive line look and how bad an offensive line can also look when a guy is dancing around for losses trying to hit the homerun and by doing so putting his team in second/third and longs.

Mark Tuinei?? Nate Newton?? Haha okay man!! Those guys NOBODIES before Emmitt. Loving that revisionist history and total disregard for stats that you keep putting out!

And quit with the nonsense with Detroit was one of the worst franchises back in the 1990s, that's just total nonsense and I can't put it any simpler than that. "Worst franchises" are like what the Chiefs or Jaguars have now. Not a Detroit defense that was middle of the road, 2 pro bowl offensive lineman, 1 definite badass receiver and another who had a 100 catch season and maybe the best running back of all time. Yeah a real shit group they had there in Detroit  Roll Eyes  

Yeah, they were right up there with Dallas as far as talent is concerned.   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #92 on: December 02, 2012, 08:20:59 AM »

Yeah, they were right up there with Dallas as far as talent is concerned.   Roll Eyes

Just pointing out that Detroit wasn't some terrible franchise without Sanders that you seem to be alluding to. They proved it by going to the playoffs the year after he retired.

And on the subject of Emmitt, he was the centerpiece to one of the greatest dynasty's ever and consistently put his team in a position to win huge games with his running style. Rather than bounce back and lose 5 yards he'd push through and gain a couple yards. That leads to more 2nd/3rd and shorts rather than 2nd/3rd and longs plus the occasional home run, 60 yard touchdown. One style is good for winning playoff games and one is good for the highlight reel.

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« Reply #93 on: December 02, 2012, 08:29:29 AM »

Care to guess how many of those "ultra badass" offensive linemen you named blocking for Emmitt had pro bowls before he arrived? A big fat zero. And they were both pros for almost 10 years each before him!

It's amazing how much better a gritty running back consistently moving the chains without fumbling can make an offensive line look and how bad an offensive line can also look when a guy is dancing around for losses trying to hit the homerun and by doing so putting his team in second/third and longs.

Mark Tuinei?? Nate Newton?? Haha okay man!! Those guys NOBODIES before Emmitt. Loving that revisionist history and total disregard for stats that you keep putting out!

And quit with the nonsense with Detroit was one of the worst franchises back in the 1990s, that's just total nonsense and I can't put it any simpler than that. "Worst franchises" are like what the Chiefs or Jaguars have now. Not a Detroit defense that was middle of the road, 2 pro bowl offensive lineman, 1 definite badass receiver and another who had a 100 catch season and maybe the best running back of all time. Yeah a real shit group they had there in Detroit  Roll Eyes  

You are right about the Cowboys oline...people forget Larry Allen wasn't there until 95 also...but anyway, your point about the offensive line...do you remember the name of the back who filled in for Emmit during his 2 game holdout during their SuperBowl run? I can't off the top of my head but I remember the offensive line did NOT make that guy look good Smiley

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« Reply #94 on: December 02, 2012, 08:30:54 AM »

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« Reply #95 on: December 02, 2012, 08:43:37 AM »

You are right about the Cowboys oline...people forget Larry Allen wasn't there until 95 also...but anyway, your point about the offensive line...do you remember the name of the back who filled in for Emmit during his 2 game holdout during their SuperBowl run? I can't off the top of my head but I remember the offensive line did NOT make that guy look good Smiley

MDN


Yep. In fact they lost both games and the running back did jack shit. Then when he came back they went something like 15 and 2 with Emmitt basically willing them to victory with a separated shoulder in a playoff game I believe.  Kinda shoots down that theory that ALWAYS comes up in a Barry vs. Emmitt debate when these guys say "Hell, even my fat ass could have averaged 100 yards a game rushing under THAT offensive line!!" Really?? Did ya see the running game BEFORE Emmitt got there and Newton/Tuinei were blocking?? I thought they were capable of turning dogshit into gold!

Of course when discussing Barry Sanders the obligatory outright lie that he was playing with the equivalency of a small town JV football team much be thrown out there as well.  Cool


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« Reply #96 on: December 02, 2012, 10:03:46 AM »

Yep. In fact they lost both games and the running back did jack shit. Then when he came back they went something like 15 and 2 with Emmitt basically willing them to victory with a separated shoulder in a playoff game I believe.  Kinda shoots down that theory that ALWAYS comes up in a Barry vs. Emmitt debate when these guys say "Hell, even my fat ass could have averaged 100 yards a game rushing under THAT offensive line!!" Really?? Did ya see the running game BEFORE Emmitt got there and Newton/Tuinei were blocking?? I thought they were capable of turning dogshit into gold!

Of course when discussing Barry Sanders the obligatory outright lie that he was playing with the equivalency of a small town JV football team much be thrown out there as well.  Cool




Thats right. I forgot about that they did win out. One of the Cowboy players in an interview said how everyone was pissed about Jerry not matching the Barry Sanders deal money wise. When they lost the 2nd game Jerry came down into the locker room as usual and Charles Hailey through his helmet as hard as he could against the wall right next to Jerry and said " You need to sign this mutherfuka right now!"

Would have loved to see Jerry's face Smiley

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« Reply #97 on: December 02, 2012, 10:58:26 AM »

Thats right. I forgot about that they did win out. One of the Cowboy players in an interview said how everyone was pissed about Jerry not matching the Barry Sanders deal money wise. When they lost the 2nd game Jerry came down into the locker room as usual and Charles Hailey through his helmet as hard as he could against the wall right next to Jerry and said " You need to sign this mutherfuka right now!"

Would have loved to see Jerry's face Smiley



Emmitt Smith was the perfect runningback for that dynasty style of play. "We are gonna line up and our running back is gonna shove it down your throat and there is nothing you can do about"

Always picking up positive yards, zero dancing in the backfield for loses, superb pass protection by standing linebackers straight up on blitzes, rarely ever fumbled and was way above average catching the ball out of the backfield, durable and automatic at the goal line.

I'll take that as my running back for THAT SYSTEM over anyone.
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« Reply #98 on: December 02, 2012, 12:06:44 PM »

All due respect to Bo Jackson, but a few Monday night heroics and a Nike commercial or two don't make for the greatest NFL running back of all time. Best athlete, maybe, best RB, no.

Bo played 38 NFL games and rushed for 27XX yards. If you want to talk about guys cut down early by injury, excluding the great Gale Sayers, even Billy Sims (58 games 51XX yards) was a better back than Bo.

A lot of "what ifs" with Bo, but the NFL is full of guys like that (Marcus Dupree).
We will never know, Bo had size and speed! Agree with Billy Simms his highlights are great!
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« Reply #99 on: December 02, 2012, 03:12:03 PM »

poly bringing some strong arguments in favor of emmit smith.  not sure i agree though. i wonder if emmit had the ability to be a highlight reel running back the caliber of sanders? and is barry had the ability to be a ground and pound , up the middle running back the caliber of smith? 
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