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Author Topic: Christmas is pagan  (Read 4093 times)
Man of Steel
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« on: December 03, 2012, 01:01:17 PM »

fyi....some comments about Christmas being considered a pagan event.
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2012, 04:36:37 PM »

Jesus (pbuh) was not born on december 25th. There is no such thing as christmas nor did Jesus ever endorse or tell people to celebrate no such thing. In fact Jesus was angry at the Pharisees Jews for following man made traditions and not God's law. Ironically here we are today. Nor is there anything in scripture advocating this pagan feast. If anything the bible condemns those that bring trees in their houses. Exactly what christmas trees are in practice, a tree brought in a house to 'protect' the home. It's a pagan belief. Trees that have 'spirits' in them, or deities, etc...

It is mixed with pagan beliefs and december 25th relates to pagan ceremonies. Much of the beliefs and practices that so many people engage in during christmas time are pagan in nature. Putting up the sock. Putting up a tree. The star on the tree. The decoration on the door. Santa Clause. Etc...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14CLNTDiyCY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14CLNTDiyCY</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbobaiRF19w" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbobaiRF19w</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDmQVRl7xqg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDmQVRl7xqg</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmQqyPIjkj4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmQqyPIjkj4</a>

The gift giving, drinking, sex parties, etc... all things that happen in society on christmas, all related to past activities of pagan romans. Little to do with ANYTHING relating to Jesus (peace be upon him) the prophet of God.

And lastly, ever so popular in capitalism of the west, it is a time of money making extortion of people.
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2012, 04:45:18 PM »

Quote
Pagan Origins

Dating back centuries before Christ, cultures brought evergreen trees, plants, and leaves into their homes upon the arrival of the winter solstice, which occurs in the northern hemisphere between December 21st and 22nd. Although the specific practices were different in each country and culture, the symbolization was generally the same: to celebrate the return of life at the beginning of winter's decline.


Egyptians particularly valued evergreens as a symbol of life's victory over death. They brought green date palm leaves into their homes around the time of the winter solstice.

Romans had a public festival called Saturnalia, which lasted one week beginning on December 17th, and included a variety of celebrations around the winter solstice. Curiously, the Roman winter solstice was marked on December 25th on the Julian calendar. These celebrations are thought to have merged with pagan practices of hanging mistletoe and the burning of the Yule log.



In Britain, the Yule log was originally seen as a magical amulet, and eventually made it into the hand's of Father Christmas. In Italy the Yule log is still burned for the "Festa di Ceppo". In Catalonia, the log is wrapped in a blanket until Christmas Eve, when it's unwrapped and burned for the custom of "fer cagar el tio". And in Serbia, families bring the Yule log (known as a "badnjak") into their homes on Christmas Eve to be burned along with prayers to God to bring happiness, luck, and riches.

Druid priests in Great Britain also used evergreen plants and mistletoe in pagan ceremonies, and the mistletoe plant was the symbol of the birth of a god. Celtic Druids and Norseman of Scandinavia also used mistletoe in a mysterious ceremony just after the winter solstice.

In the mid 1500's, Germans began using evergreen trees as a symbol of hope for the coming of spring. This practice is likely to have gradually evolved from pagan rituals of past, and merged with the celebration of Christmas leading to the tree's Christian beginnings.
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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2012, 07:16:38 PM »

Dude its a thread about christmas songs, leave the guy alone FFS  Huh
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2012, 01:03:36 AM »

It's the religious section. People should be made aware that Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh).
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2012, 10:59:21 AM »

The Roman Catholic church chose December 25th to celebrate the birth of Christ in an attempt to subvert the pagan celebrations that annually occurred at or around that same time; in essense, replacing pagan traditions with a celebration of Christ....it took too!  

No one knows the exact birthdate of Christ.  Some say it was in the spring and others the fall.  That said, the church made a strong attempt to establish the annual celebration of Christ's birth in a way that both glorifies our Lord and Savior and symbolically suppresses the evil of men.

The verses in Jeremiah don't refer to Christmas trees....that's a forced fit many employ for the sake of making an argument.  The verses refer to those people that fashioned wooden idols and decorated them for purposes of pagan worship.  And where does one get wood?  From trees in a forest.  Christians do not worship Christmas trees.
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2012, 11:11:53 AM »

Christians do not worship Christmas trees.


This is generally true - notable exceptions are the Rockefeller Center Christmas tree and the Nation's Christmas tree.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Grant_(tree)
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2012, 04:35:00 AM »

Sex parties? Related to Christmas? Wtf kind of childhood did you have Assmed? No wonder your a fucking fruit loop. Where you get this stuff sometimes all I can do is lol.
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2012, 09:27:59 AM »

I don't think the Christians really care what Jesus thought.. I give you public prayer as an example. Jesus was against it.. preached against it in Mathew Chapter 5, gave specific instructions that only a moron could screw up, but... 2000 yrs later, Christians are whining about not being able to pray in school, football games etc..... What Jesus thought takes a back seat to Christians need to publicly say "Hey, look at me, Im a Christian"
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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2012, 09:57:04 AM »

Sex parties? Related to Christmas? Wtf kind of childhood did you have Assmed? No wonder your a fucking fruit loop. Where you get this stuff sometimes all I can do is lol.


well you should read up on the history of such things as saturnalia, gift exchanging, fornication, drinking, partying. Not very different from what most people do on christmas and new years.
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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2012, 10:03:43 AM »

Christians should not celebrate christmas we know Jesus would not.
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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2012, 10:26:43 AM »

It's the religious section. People should be made aware that Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh).
Yea, no one can stop you from posting it but then again who can impose decency on people? Thanks for ruining the thread.
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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2012, 11:10:43 AM »

I don't think the Christians really care what Jesus thought.. I give you public prayer as an example. Jesus was against it.. preached against it in Mathew Chapter 5, gave specific instructions that only a moron could screw up, but... 2000 yrs later, Christians are whining about not being able to pray in school, football games etc..... What Jesus thought takes a back seat to Christians need to publicly say "Hey, look at me, Im a Christian"

Actually he spoke about prayer in Matthew chapter 6 and his intent was not to deny public prayer amongst a group of believers altogether. Jesus' point was to pray earnestly, succinctly and honestly and he gave an example of how to do so.   A priest or pastor leading a church in prayer is not frowned upon.  The direction of the chapter is about not acting selfishly, boastfully or hypocritically, but about acting honestly and selflessly.  The example of hypocrites praying publically for show is not about outlawing public prayer, it's about outlawing the intent of the prayer...in Christ's example that was hypocrisy.  The chapter as a whole talks about selfless behavior in terms of prayer, fasting, giving, material possessions and eating/drinking. 
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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2012, 11:19:40 AM »

Actually he spoke about prayer in Matthew chapter 6 and his intent was not to deny public prayer amongst a group of believers altogether. Jesus' point was to pray earnestly, succinctly and honestly and he gave an example of how to do so.   A priest or pastor leading a church in prayer is not frowned upon.  The direction of the chapter is about not acting selfishly, boastfully or hypocritically, but about acting honestly and selflessly.  The example of hypocrites praying publically for show is not about outlawing public prayer, it's about outlawing the intent of the prayer...in Christ's example that was hypocrisy.  The chapter as a whole talks about selfless behavior in terms of prayer, fasting, giving, material possessions and eating/drinking.  

oh right, chapter 6 verse 5.. thanks for your interpretation of it mon.. you of course know better than Jesus about what Jesus was saying.
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« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2012, 11:21:41 AM »

And when you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Truly I say to you, They have their reward. 6But you, when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which sees in secret shall reward you openly.

7But when you pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not you therefore like to them: for your Father knows what things you have need of, before you ask him.

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« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2012, 11:34:55 AM »

oh right, chapter 6 verse 5.. thanks for your interpretation of it mon.. you of course no better than Jesus about what Jesus was saying.

Yep, you nailed it....I know better than God LOL.
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« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2012, 11:36:31 AM »

Yep, you nailed it....I know better than God LOL.

the sad thing is i wasted three minutes of my life trying to understand what you were trying to say in your previous post and then just gave up...
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« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2012, 11:38:43 AM »

the sad thing is i wasted three minutes of my life trying to understand what you were trying to say in your previous post and then just gave up...

Which words tripped you up?  I'm admittedly not the best writer.
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Jadeveon Clowney
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« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2012, 11:47:43 AM »

The direction of the chapter is about not acting selfishly, boastfully or hypocritically, but about acting honestly and selflessly.  The example of hypocrites praying publically for show is not about outlawing public prayer, it's about outlawing the intent of the prayer...in Christ's example that was hypocrisy.    

not sure how any of what you're saying refutes the point that the text clearly seems to be saying don't make a spectacle out of your religion. don't think any reasonable person would disagree that a big part of why people want those kinds of mass prayers is because it is a spectacle/a thing for the public to see. otherwise they'd just quietly say a prayer by themselves. 
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« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2012, 12:19:18 PM »

I also agree w/MOS's take on that verse.

The surrounding text is talking about not being "showy" w/your righteousness:


Matt 6 1-8
“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Prayer5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.


With additional text showing corporate (but sincere) prayer in the Bible as acceptable, I feel that verse 5 is more and analogical exhortation (like plucking our your eye) not to be showy and fake and hypocritical w/your beliefs. 

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« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2012, 12:20:41 PM »

not sure how any of what you're saying refutes the point that the text clearly seems to be saying don't make a spectacle out of your religion. don't think any reasonable person would disagree that a big part of why people want those kinds of mass prayers is because it is a spectacle/a thing for the public to see. otherwise they'd just quietly say a prayer by themselves.  

The chapter does not say "don't make a spectacle out of your religion".  Christ commands us to boldly and sincerely spread the good news of salvation. The chapter is suggesting that one should not make a spectacle of him/herself for hypocritical, selfish gain (when praying, giving, fasting).  Still, not making a spectacle out of your religion is also implied so that is true.  Again, it's not about the act of a public prayer...it's about the intent of the person praying publically that is called into question.  Does the prayer honestly glorify God or is it a means to glorify the person praying?

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« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2012, 12:31:35 PM »

the text clearly seems to be saying don't make a spectacle out of your religion.

Agree
a big part of why people want those kinds of mass prayers is because it is a spectacle/a thing for the public to see.

Unfortunately I think that could be true for some. 

An unbeliever though, is going to probably see corporate prayer more as showy since they likely can't fathom what believers believe to be true....we don't think corporate prayer is useless and for attention to the individual.  We truly believe we are praying to a God who exists.

I see people raise their hands in church sometimes when they are singing worship songs and I know  some unbelievers think that looks nuts.  Some people may be doing it for attention, but others are feeling/worshipping the Holy Spirit and want to raise their hands/open their arms to Him.
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« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2012, 12:57:09 PM »

Agree
Unfortunately I think that could be true for some. 

An unbeliever though, is going to probably see corporate prayer more as showy since they likely can't fathom what believers believe to be true....we don't think corporate prayer is useless and for attention to the individual.  We truly believe we are praying to a God who exists.

I see people raise their hands in church sometimes when they are singing worship songs and I know  some unbelievers think that looks nuts.  Some people may be doing it for attention, but others are feeling/worshipping the Holy Spirit and want to raise their hands/open their arms to Him.

Agreed
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« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2012, 03:15:41 PM »

It is in fact Pagan... That's just historical fact.

Saturnalia and what not.
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« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2012, 04:02:51 PM »

The verses about public prayer were in fact about those boasting for show only. It's the same in Islam, such prayer is not accepted. Same as these verses in the bible.
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