Author Topic: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course  (Read 1097 times)

Skip8282

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Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« on: December 08, 2012, 07:34:32 AM »
Not seeing much outrage.

They are already in some new cars without the gov't mandating it.

Think I'm on the fence with this one - but don't buy the safety argument at all.

Shockwave

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2012, 07:38:10 AM »
Not seeing much outrage.

They are already in some new cars without the gov't mandating it.

Think I'm on the fence with this one - but don't buy the safety argument at all.
Pisses me off... but it's only a matter of time. I have a feeling it's more about the insurance companies saving money than it is about safety. I'm sure eventually they're going to start pushing GPS driven cars on the public, since they will be "safer".

Skip8282

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2012, 07:58:34 AM »
Yeah the insurance angle is the big one, I think.

But if I'm in an accident and I'm in the right, one of these things could help keep Skip's good name in the clear.

tonymctones

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2012, 08:47:42 AM »
yup, bull shit....

better not get rid of those old beater cars getbiggers

Fury

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2012, 09:28:55 AM »
The government is nice and would never exploit you. This sounds like a fantastic idea! Let's raise taxes to pay for it so every American can have one of their own!

avxo

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2012, 10:17:43 AM »
Not seeing much outrage.

They are already in some new cars without the gov't mandating it.

Think I'm on the fence with this one - but don't buy the safety argument at all.

In general, I don't like government mandates and would rather if the government didn't seek to expand into every possible book and cranny, like a virus.

With that said, I'm on the fence about this too, if for no other reason, that the data would most likely help my case if I was ever in a car accident. With the way Civil Courts hand out judgements these days (i.e. "you add 6 zeroes at the end of the amount the plaintiff is asking and you pay him!") having data about the accident from an "impartial and rational observer" could help.

Of course that doesn't mean I like the concept. I would have much preferred no government mandate, but the insurance companies saying "we developed this tech. New vehicles that have it get a discount on their premium" and then letting the market decide whether this is something consumers want.

I haven't seen the specifications for the government mandated black boxes but I am curious about some things: is the data stored encrypted and does the law state that the data belongs to the owner of the vehicle? If those two topics ate clarified in the law/rules issued I would feel a lot better about this.

whork

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2012, 11:43:48 AM »
It should be your own choice, not the governments if you want something like this installed.

You know im not a no taxes guy but government should not have the ability to monitor you like this.


Shockwave

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2012, 11:48:08 AM »
In general, I don't like government mandates and would rather if the government didn't seek to expand into every possible book and cranny, like a virus.

With that said, I'm on the fence about this too, if for no other reason, that the data would most likely help my case if I was ever in a car accident. With the way Civil Courts hand out judgements these days (i.e. "you add 6 zeroes at the end of the amount the plaintiff is asking and you pay him!") having data about the accident from an "impartial and rational observer" could help.

Of course that doesn't mean I like the concept. I would have much preferred no government mandate, but the insurance companies saying "we developed this tech. New vehicles that have it get a discount on their premium" and then letting the market decide whether this is something consumers want.

I haven't seen the specifications for the government mandated black boxes but I am curious about some things: is the data stored encrypted and does the law state that the data belongs to the owner of the vehicle? If those two topics ate clarified in the law/rules issued I would feel a lot better about this.
Good ideas on the last part. I doubt they would do such a thing though, if they're putting a data recorder in your vehicle, it's probably not "for your eyes only, able to be used at your discretion".

Skip8282

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2012, 06:27:14 AM »
In general, I don't like government mandates and would rather if the government didn't seek to expand into every possible book and cranny, like a virus.

With that said, I'm on the fence about this too, if for no other reason, that the data would most likely help my case if I was ever in a car accident. With the way Civil Courts hand out judgements these days (i.e. "you add 6 zeroes at the end of the amount the plaintiff is asking and you pay him!") having data about the accident from an "impartial and rational observer" could help.

Of course that doesn't mean I like the concept. I would have much preferred no government mandate, but the insurance companies saying "we developed this tech. New vehicles that have it get a discount on their premium" and then letting the market decide whether this is something consumers want.

I haven't seen the specifications for the government mandated black boxes but I am curious about some things: is the data stored encrypted and does the law state that the data belongs to the owner of the vehicle? If those two topics ate clarified in the law/rules issued I would feel a lot better about this.



This I can get on board with.  Give consumers the choice.  However, it appears that neither the companies nor Uncle Sam is set on doing so.

This is where a Ron Paul type would be great in the White House.

WOOO

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2012, 08:26:38 AM »
i have nothing to hide... hence i do not mind the black box idea at all...

most american'ts have criminal tendencies though so i understand your frustration

Shockwave

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2012, 05:23:56 PM »
i have nothing to hide... hence i do not mind the black box idea at all...

most american'ts have criminal tendencies though so i understand your frustration
The black box monitors everything related to your driving.. how fast you drive, how hard you break... etc.

BTW your attitude is an epic fail. Just because you have nothing to hide does not make it ok for the government to watch over your shoulder. Quiet a slipper slope. Does privacy mean nothing to people anymore?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2012, 05:33:23 PM »
Ive never had black box, came close once though.   

Shockwave

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2012, 05:42:56 PM »
Ive never had black box, came close once though.   
Gross.

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2012, 05:46:44 PM »
The black box monitors everything related to your driving.. how fast you drive, how hard you break... etc.

BTW your attitude is an epic fail. Just because you have nothing to hide does not make it ok for the government to watch over your shoulder. Quiet a slipper slope. Does privacy mean nothing to people anymore?

criminal

you should be executed for being so unpatriotic

Soul Crusher

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2012, 05:49:55 PM »
Gross.

Had a fat ass, was super crazy friendly, she worked for one of my clients in the office and we were alone once and she was getting a little touchy feely.  Client was out of the office and I had to drop something off.   Could have done it, but chose not to. 

Shockwave

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2012, 06:04:23 PM »
criminal

you should be executed for being so unpatriotic
Ah. I see. I have been trolled.

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2012, 06:07:06 PM »
Ah. I see. I have been trolled.

no

executed

this is not life

this is getbig

Skeletor

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2012, 06:21:15 PM »
I remember Progressive Insurance offered this around 2 years ago.
They would install a device which "tracks all the parameters of travel, including speed, time, mileage and distance, as well as how frequently the brakes are used and how quickly the car stops, and wirelessly transmits the data back to the company, which adjusts your insurance rates on how well - or poorly - you drive."

I guess it won't be long before insurance companies lobby and push to make this crap mandatory.


Shockwave

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2012, 06:23:11 PM »
I remember Progressive Insurance offered this around 2 years ago.
They would install a device which "tracks all the parameters of travel, including speed, time, mileage and distance, as well as how frequently the brakes are used and how quickly the car stops, and wirelessly transmits the data back to the company, which adjusts your insurance rates on how well - or poorly - you drive."

I guess it won't be long before insurance companies lobby and push to make this crap mandatory.


"Snapshot" discount or some bullshit.

I can't imagine citizens would ever let that happen, but I've long ago given up faith in humanity.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2012, 06:23:56 PM »
"Snapshot" discount or some bullshit.

I can't imagine citizens would ever let that happen, but I've long ago given up faith in humanity.

We will accept it and make excuses and rationalizations for it, just like O-GhettoCare

Skeletor

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2012, 06:28:34 PM »
"Snapshot" discount or some bullshit.

I can't imagine citizens would ever let that happen, but I've long ago given up faith in humanity.

The discount was minuscule, something like 5%.
Most people wouldn't even notice the device or would accept thinking "I'm a safe driver" or "How nice, they're looking out for me". Or of course they might have limited choice if this will be pushed by the major insurance companies.

Shockwave

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2012, 06:38:30 PM »
The discount was minuscule, something like 5%.
Most people wouldn't even notice the device or would accept thinking "I'm a safe driver" or "How nice, they're looking out for me". Or of course they might have limited choice if this will be pushed by the major insurance companies.
Im sure the discount given was far outweighed by the potential increase in premium if they decided you weren't a "safe" driver.
I don't think your average person realizes how often they bend the rules while driving, going a little over, braking a bit too hard, changing lanes too fast, forgetting their seat belts... etc, etc, etc. Bet there would be a shit ton of pissed off citizens when their rates skyrocket because they're labeled "high risk" for going a couple miles an hour over the limit.

avxo

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2012, 06:41:53 PM »
We will accept it and make excuses and rationalizations for it, just like O-GhettoCare


You are comparing a program by an insurance company with voluntary participation to Obamacare, a government program with (essentially) mandatory participation? You are a troll. Can't you have one discussion that doesn't revolve around Obama for crying out loud!? Just one!

Soul Crusher

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2012, 06:43:33 PM »
You are comparing a program by an insurance company with voluntary participation to Obamacare, a government program with (essentially) mandatory participation? You are a troll. Can't you have one discussion that doesn't revolve around Obama for crying out loud!? Just one!

The insurance industry will demand mandatory participation in this just likee Obamacare, get the criminal govt to pass a law mandating it, and bingo.   

avxo

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Re: Black Boxes in Cars - for your safety, of course
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2012, 07:01:55 PM »
The insurance industry will demand mandatory participation in this just likee Obamacare, get the criminal govt to pass a law mandating it, and bingo.   

That is a concern, but it's not unique to this situation.

I don't want the government mandating what cars must and must not have, although I do think that some some degree of regulation is sensible; the government can set rules on the vehicles that operate on its roads. With that said, I don't think that should give the government a blank check to regulate vehicle design.

But to be clear, you don't have a problem with a voluntary system where insurance companies offer incentives to customers with such black boxes in their vehicles?