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Author Topic: Rep. Tom Coburn, willing to raise taxes with entitlement reform  (Read 741 times)
War-Horse
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« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2012, 02:38:17 PM »

agreed, so why are the dems dragging their feet?

get to the table and make it happen before the fiscal cliff

serious question war-horse, if the Reps agree to tax hikes now believing in good faith that the dems will cut entitlements later, do you really think the dems will cut entitlements to medicare and medicade next year?


I dont think medicare is on the table.  If it was republicans would be a ghost town next election. How about ending oil subsidies.......they dont need it.
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andreisdaman
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« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2012, 02:53:43 PM »

We are on the verge of collapse because we dont pay our bills.

Im surprised a guy who runs a business cant grasp this concept.

A business is only a business if its successful.............. ........................ ............and real Roll Eyes
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andreisdaman
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« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2012, 02:55:24 PM »


Did the rich feel punished when their rates were 50% and 90% decades ago?  Did they just say "Well im going to turn down the million dollars because i dont want leeches like tonymc and 33333 getting govt cheese off my dime.  Is that what happened??   Why you dumbasses protect people that think your scum is beyond me.....but go ahead and fall on your sword.....

you said it better than me..I've been telling these guys this same thing for years..maybe they will listen to you
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avxo
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« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2012, 03:18:26 PM »

LOL 7% is alot to you?

so that means the other 93% that needs to come from either spending cuts or increased taxes on the middle class is gigantic to you then?

so why do you spend all your time concentrating on the 7% instead of the 93%?

How does that make any kind of sense?

Let's be realistic for a second. We are in a hole a mile deep. No one thing will help us get out. A 7% cut would be a good step - but only if it wasn't the only step.

I don't think it's unrealistic to ask that we get to work to lift the country up from the hole we dug it into. Americans have, by and large, never backed away from a challenge and we have, when push comes to shove, always done the right thing for our country, often times at great personal expense. What I think is unrealistic is playing partisan games (from the left or the right) and pussy-footing around the issue while trying to appear to lead.

I'm sick and tired of the politicians who talk big, but do nothing. I disagree with Obama fundamentally on just about every issue. But I won't let them stop me from working with him to reach some common ground. Because, frankly, the country is much greater than any one of us.

I do not think it's unrealistic or improper for us to demand that the people that we elect to lead do just that. True leadership would be for them to come back to us and say: "Fuck, we're in a bind. Here's the plan: we have no sacred cows on the left or the right; we're cutting and trimming down everything; this will save X billion dollars. We need another Y billion, which we will get by raising taxes."
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avxo
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« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2012, 03:23:46 PM »

Did the rich feel punished when their rates were 50% and 90% decades ago?  Did they just say "Well im going to turn down the million dollars because i dont want leeches like tonymc and 33333 getting govt cheese off my dime.

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't; I can only speak for myself, and I will tell you that, if I had the option, I would turn down a million dollars if accepting it meant sacrificing my principles.


Why you dumbasses protect people that think your scum is beyond me.....but go ahead and fall on your sword.....

Whether they think I am scum is irrelevant. My positions and beliefs aren't predicated on how others see or think of me. They are what they are. You may think that defending them is falling on my sword - and that may very well be - but my position is that some ideas are worth fighting and dying for.
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War-Horse
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« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2012, 05:39:03 PM »

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't; I can only speak for myself, and I will tell you that, if I had the option, I would turn down a million dollars if accepting it meant sacrificing my principles.


Whether they think I am scum is irrelevant. My positions and beliefs aren't predicated on how others see or think of me. They are what they are. You may think that defending them is falling on my sword - and that may very well be - but my position is that some ideas are worth fighting and dying for.


So if You won the lottery of a million dollars, but the gov wanted 50%....youd turn it down? Even tho you could help your family too??
Now i realize maybe the millionaire worked for it (But not in all cases). But your saying you wouldnt even try for this because of resentment towards paying taxes in your country?   Not true and you know it.
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tonymctones
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« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2012, 05:58:16 PM »


So if You won the lottery of a million dollars, but the gov wanted 50%....youd turn it down? Even tho you could help your family too??
Now i realize maybe the millionaire worked for it (But not in all cases). But your saying you wouldnt even try for this because of resentment towards paying taxes in your country?   Not true and you know it.
what does it matter whether they worked for it or had it handed to them, its none of your fuking business.

Thats their money, to do with what they want

what gives you or anyone else the right to demand that they give more money?

Especially with all the waste and inefficiency in the govt. Id be all on board with raising taxes if the govt had much less waste. Until then let ppl keep their own money and get the govts fiscal house in order.
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GigantorX
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« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2012, 06:32:22 PM »

your article says exactly what Ive said in the past, obama has proposed cuts to FUTURE SPENDING!!!

As we all know these never come to fruition evidenced by the exponential growth of govt spending....

quit buying into the bloated govt propaganda!!!

That's all anyone has proposed thus far, it's smoke and mirrors.

Until spending is frozen and real cuts are implemented, nothing will change.
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avxo
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« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2012, 07:00:03 PM »


So if You won the lottery of a million dollars, but the gov wanted 50%....youd turn it down? Even tho you could help your family too??
Now i realize maybe the millionaire worked for it (But not in all cases). But your saying you wouldnt even try for this because of resentment towards paying taxes in your country?   Not true and you know it.

If it meant sacrificing my principles yes, I would turn money down. Even $50,000,000. I value my principles more than I value money, because money without principles is meaningless.

But there's a big difference in winning the lottery and earning that money, so your example isn't a good fit. If I won the lottery I would pay whatever taxes the law demanded, just like I pay the taxes the law demands on the income that I earn.

But, if the government came and said: "Sorry, you need to pay an extra 10% in taxes starting tomorrow" that would mean that I get to work just as hard for less money.

I know the value of my work and I demand that my paycheck reflects it. Being taxed more means being paid less. And this doesn't seem like a good deal to me.

After all, if I want less money, I can always find a less stressful, less demanding job; I don't need the government to help me by taking money away.

You see, I don't need to make $125,000 a year. It's nice and it makes sure I can live very comfortably but I could live on a lot less and be just as happy. It really is that simple.
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War-Horse
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« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2012, 12:01:52 PM »

If it meant sacrificing my principles yes, I would turn money down. Even $50,000,000. I value my principles more than I value money, because money without principles is meaningless.

But there's a big difference in winning the lottery and earning that money, so your example isn't a good fit. If I won the lottery I would pay whatever taxes the law demanded, just like I pay the taxes the law demands on the income that I earn.

But, if the government came and said: "Sorry, you need to pay an extra 10% in taxes starting tomorrow" that would mean that I get to work just as hard for less money.

I know the value of my work and I demand that my paycheck reflects it. Being taxed more means being paid less. And this doesn't seem like a good deal to me.

After all, if I want less money, I can always find a less stressful, less demanding job; I don't need the government to help me by taking money away.

You see, I don't need to make $125,000 a year. It's nice and it makes sure I can live very comfortably but I could live on a lot less and be just as happy. It really is that simple.


I agree here. Im also not "Money motivated" other things  are more important. But the point here is that Millionaires usually are money motivated. However most millionaires iv known work a hell of a lot less that 40 hrs a week.
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GigantorX
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« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2012, 12:10:23 PM »

There will be nothing done on the spending side.

Taxes will be raised, the deficit will still be around 1 trillion for the foreseeable future and the debt will continue to pile up.


We will be back at this same point next year sometime with another round of debt-ceiling hilarity.

At which time those single filers and joint/family filers that make around 150,000 dollars per year will be targeted as those that can "pay a little extra."
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Necrosis
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« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2012, 12:16:41 PM »

If it meant sacrificing my principles yes, I would turn money down. Even $50,000,000. I value my principles more than I value money, because money without principles is meaningless.

But there's a big difference in winning the lottery and earning that money, so your example isn't a good fit. If I won the lottery I would pay whatever taxes the law demanded, just like I pay the taxes the law demands on the income that I earn.


true
But, if the government came and said: "Sorry, you need to pay an extra 10% in taxes starting tomorrow" that would mean that I get to work just as hard for less money.

Thought money didn't motivate you

I know the value of my work and I demand that my paycheck reflects it. Being taxed more means being paid less. And this doesn't seem like a good deal to me.


That's quite a simplistic look at the situation. How does having more money but brutal roads sound, or how about no police force, my analogy is equally ludricis and lacking depth as yours.
After all, if I want less money, I can always find a less stressful, less demanding job; I don't need the government to help me by taking money away.

You see, I don't need to make $125,000 a year. It's nice and it makes sure I can live very comfortably but I could live on a lot less and be just as happy. It really is that simple.

Altruism doesn't motivate you at all?
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avxo
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« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2012, 03:20:07 PM »

Thought money didn't motivate you

It doesn't per se; I see money as a means, not as an end. But that doesn't mean that I will accept less for my work than it's worth to my employer. You see, money to me is a token that represents my best effort and which others are willing to accept in exchange for their best effort.


That's quite a simplistic look at the situation.

It is simple, but not simplistic; there is a difference. If starting tomorrow I get taxed more, thus reducing my take-home pay, I am, in essence, doing the same work for less pay. How is this wrong?


How does having more money but brutal roads sound, or how about no police force, my analogy is equally ludricis and lacking depth as yours.

I believe that there are appropriate and inappropriate functions for a government, and therefore, appropriate and inappropriate uses of taxes. Since policing is a proper function of Government (at some level) taxes towards that end are also proper and ones which a rational person would want to pay. Courts and military also fall in that same category. That the Government wastes the money it takes in from taxes to provide me those services, spending it instead on nonsense doesn't mean that I should pay more to them so that they may, then, provide me with what they should be providing me with to begin with.

Would you go to a restaurant where the server ate half your soup on the way to the table and then, to add insult to injury, charged you for a second helping? If you wouldn't tolerate this behavior at a restaurant why do you tolerate it from a government?

As for roads: I don't think the Government should have a monopoly on roads, and wouldn't mind private roads; I concede that building a private highway from Las Vegas to Los Angeles or Las Vegas to Phoenix would be both expensive and exceedingly difficult; perhaps prohibitively so for private individuals or even corporations. Additionally, the Federal Government has Constitutional authority to build post roads; these two things together, for me are enough to make me be in favor of taxes that go towards the building and maintenance of roadways and related infrastructure.

As for whether the roads are brutal or not my answer is simple: if the Government proved incapable of providing me with roads of a quality I found acceptable, I would not rely on roads to go from point A to point B. Of course, even in that case, I would be forced to pay for those brutal roads anyways.


Altruism doesn't motivate you at all?

Not really, no. Altruism demands that I place the good of others above my own. I have no desire to do so.
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bears
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« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2012, 01:34:41 PM »

There is plenty of waste in the government but its not easy to fix. It needs a giant overhaul buts not gonna be done any time soon.

What do you mean operating expences?

oh christ.
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