twinks.

[Necrosis]

http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workplace/twinkie-ceo-admits-company-took-employees-pensions-and-put-it?paging=off

unions killed it.

[littledumbells]

Thats quite the left wing news source there

[tonymctones]

LOL I looked for an actual news link on this and the only thing I got was about their debt holders being paid. So I have to assume that the money was used to pay off debt holders.

If this is the case then thats standard practice and the way it should be. Otherwise companies wouldnt be able to raise capital b/c whos going to invest in a business when they have absolutely no recourse for getting their money back if the company goes belly up?

[whork]

LOL I looked for an actual news link on this and the only thing I got was about their debt holders being paid. So I have to assume that the money was used to pay off debt holders.

If this is the case then that's standard practice and the way it should be. Otherwise companies wouldn't be able to raise capital b/c WHO's going to invest in a business when they have absolutely no recourse for getting their money back if the company goes belly up?

Its standard practise to take peoples pentions?

[blacken700]

when your a repub that's the way you think 

[tonymctones]

Its standard practise to take peoples pentions?

It's standard that when a company goes bankrupt those debt owners get first rights to the liquidated assets yes

Again why else would somebody loan money to a company without collateral?

Are you going to give millions to someone with only their word they will pay you back or do you want some form of collateral?

Now that is different then what this article says but as I stated earlier I searched for this story from a news source and not a blog and couldn't find it jus yet.

[whork]

It's standard that when a company goes bankrupt those debt owners get first rights to the liquidated assets yes

Again why else would somebody loan money to a company without collateral?

Are you going to give millions to someone with only their word they will pay you back or do you want some form of collateral?

Now that is different then what this article says but as I stated earlier I searched for this story from a news source and not a blog and couldn't find it jus yet.

Isnt the pentions earned by employees? Does their wages belong to the shareholders as well?

Im european so i might be lost on how the system works in the US.

[tonymctones]

Isnt the pentions earned by employees? Does their wages belong to the shareholders as well?

Im european so i might be lost on how the system works in the US.

The pensions are unfunded debts to the company, very similar to debt taken on in loans from banks. The order in which creditors gets paid back places outside creditors ahead of internal creditors in bankruptcy proceedings if I remember correctly.

[War-Horse]

The pensions are unfunded debts to the company, very similar to debt taken on in loans from banks. The order in which creditors gets paid back places outside creditors ahead of internal creditors in bankruptcy proceedings if I remember correctly.

It is not unfunded. They pay into it. Then they may get a partial amount from the insurance company that protected it. But it was a raid...and thats the point.   Quoted from article :   Hummel notes that the “oops” letter became the justification for asking the workers to take a pay cut, which they agreed to, and his pay dropped from $48,000 a year in 2005 to $38,000 a year last year.  But every year, $3 an hour of his compensation showed up in the worker’s pension fund instead of his paycheck.  Year after year.  With 18,000-plus workers, it was millions and millions of dollars.  Dollars that the workers had paid in, at the rate of $3 per hour

So yes Whork is correct.

[tonymctones]

when your a repub that's the way you think  

Not at all, when you have even a basic understanding of economic principles you think that way.

Why would ppl loan others money if there was no recourse to be able to get some of that money back if the company goes belly up?

Out of the goodness of their heart? That's a very liberal utopian view you have there blacken

By the way I need a loan from you but I'm not giving you any collateral, how much will you give me?

[tonymctones]

It is not unfunded. They pay into it. Then they may get a partial amount from the insurance company that protected it. But it was a raid...and thats the point.   Quoted from article :   Hummel notes that the “oops” letter became the justification for asking the workers to take a pay cut, which they agreed to, and his pay dropped from $48,000 a year in 2005 to $38,000 a year last year.  But every year, $3 an hour of his compensation showed up in the worker’s pension fund instead of his paycheck.  Year after year.  With 18,000-plus workers, it was millions and millions of dollars.  Dollars that the workers had paid in, at the rate of $3 per hour

So yes Whork is correct.

What was whorls assertion?

$3 an hour is a fraction of what was owed at the end especially when you take into account benefits outside of monetary payments.

At any rate what me and whork were talking about where their payments to outside creditors as that was the only news I could find on them besides blogs like your link.

We are talking about two different yet slightly related topics

[War-Horse]

Isnt the pentions earned by employees? Does their wages belong to the shareholders as well?

Im european so i might be lost on how the system works in the US.

whork asked isnt that money in the pension paid into by the emloyee?  You answered its unfunded.....thats the part thats wrong.  It is funded and workers pay into it.

Your other discussion was the debtors are first to be paid...that is correct and im not mentioning that part.

[blacken700]

Not at all, when you have even a basic understanding of economic principles you think that way.

Why would ppl loan others money if there was no recourse to be able to get some of that money back if the company goes belly up?

Out of the goodness of their heart? That's a very liberal utopian view you have there blacken

By the way I need a loan from you but I'm not giving you any collateral, how much will you give me?

the pension money was used  for CEO and senior executive pay

[Al Doggity]

I see another thread has been blessed with McTones half-assed, wholly wrong "wisdom". 

[War-Horse]

I see another thread has been blessed with McTones half-assed, wholly wrong "wisdom". 

Its like beating a dead horse......lol

[Necrosis]

What was whorls assertion?

$3 an hour is a fraction of what was owed at the end especially when you take into account benefits outside of monetary payments.

At any rate what me and whork were talking about where their payments to outside creditors as that was the only news I could find on them besides blogs like your link.

We are talking about two different yet slightly related topics

ya the bloated pay of the executives along with paid bonuses makes sense when people who paid into the pensions get nothing.

[Coach is Back!]

http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/28/highly-confidential-internal-treasury-documents-show-obama-administrations-deep-involvement-in-delphi-pension-scandal/

[Necrosis]

http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/28/highly-confidential-internal-treasury-documents-show-obama-administrations-deep-involvement-in-delphi-pension-scandal/

right on topic.

[tonymctones]

the pension money was used  for CEO and senior executive pay

Perhaps like I said earlier, apparently you guys don't read I tried to find this story from an actual news source and not a blog and couldn't find it.

Ill hold my condemnation until I can determine if this is true or not

[tonymctones]

I see another thread has been blessed with McTones half-assed, wholly wrong "wisdom". 

I see another thread has been blessed with McTones half-assed, wholly wrong "wisdom". 

I see another thread has been blessed with McTones half-assed, wholly wrong "wisdom". 

What half truths are that?

Obama and the dems can't agree to entitlement cuts they have already agreed on?

That he has said he wants to see if they can reinatitute the assault weapons ban?

Lmfao get a clue Al

[whork]

I see another thread has been blessed with McTones half-assed, wholly wrong "wisdom". 

 

[tonymctones]

What half truths are that?

Obama and the dems can't agree to entitlement cuts they have already agreed on?

That he has said he wants to see if they can reinatitute the assault weapons ban?

Lmfao get a clue Al

[whork]

I thought this thread was about Twink..

You still think its okay to pay the CEO with pension money?

[Al Doggity]

What half truths are that?

Obama and the dems can't agree to entitlement cuts they have already agreed on?

That he has said he wants to see if they can reinatitute the assault weapons ban?

Lmfao get a clue Al

I posted my thoughts about the assault weapons ban in the other thread.

I posted a detailed response to why every point you made was wrong in the compromise thread. All of the  points I made were supported by the article you posted in the opening post of that thread. I even posted a follow up thread with nice, bolded quotes doubly outlining why everything you said was wrong. When you repeated your wrong claims in that thread , other posters pointed out that you are dense and referred you to my earlier posts for enlightenment. This is an example of true dedication to ignorance.
You keep making the claim that the dems renegged on entitlement cuts, yet refuse to post a news article, blog post or even a tweet detailing what they've renegged on.

Let's not forget about how everything you've said in this thread is wrong. It is NOT common practice to pay company debts out of funds that are earmarked for employee pension funds. Right in the article, which is from WSJ, the current CEO acknowledges that it is unethical and does his best to distance himself from the situation and a legal expert is quoted and confirms that the practice falls into a dubious legal category known as "betrayal without remedy". Yet you spend several posts blabbering about how this is standard business practice.    Maybe you got your business degree at the BullShit School of FactsPulledOutofMyAss.

[magikusar]

end all pensions

they are sneak way to loot taxpayer