CT Shooting - Massive Shooting at School - 27 killed, 20 children

[Radical Plato]

Anybody want to bet that if E-kul was placed into time out he would kill himself within a day.

If by time out, you mean solitary confinement, I spend large amounts of time on my own, I actually prefer it.  For some people being isolated is torture, for me, I Like it, I find the company of the everyday man quite unsatisfying, I have always preferred my own company.  As a matter of fact, I have tired of Getbigs madness,and am going to bed for 8 hours of solitude.

[Radical Plato]

Well, where have you lived, traveled, studied, worked?

I enjoy hockey and hockey fighting (watching or doing it),

Go ahead, tell us what you've done to garner all this wordly experience.

I fucked your Mum, she says "Hi"

[NarcissisticDeity]

Aren't you worried an educated individual will see through the Gun Lobbies propaganda and lies, if I was a GUN NUT, I would want to keep the population dumbed down so the NRA's propaganda had a chance to stick.

Forget the gun lobbies this is an INDEPENDENT test carried out by a prestigious Ivy League University with no bias for or against

The irony is you have in your sig Science will win because it works!
This was a scientific test carried out by the best of the best Harvard Law , This makes you a HYPOCRITE because you don't like where the results lead you and that's YOUR OPINION IS WRONG , you have no integrity

If this test yielded the results that were in line with your irrational opinion they would be accurate & correct , but they don't so now you're reduced to giving some anecdotal bullshit story about some University in Australia 

You lost , deal with it.
Contrary to conventional wisdom, and the sniffs of our more sophisticated and generally anti-gun counterparts across the pond, the answer is "no." And not just no, as in there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, but an emphatic no, showing a negative correlation: as gun ownership increases, murder and suicide decreases.
 

[NarcissisticDeity]

I fucked your Mum, she says "Hi"

You're an irrational person who is too stupid to look past his own biases to accept the truth , science has proven your position false. Grown up on all accounts.

[HockeyFightFan]

I fucked your Mum, she says "Hi"

My Mom died when I was nine years old, so that joke just doesn't seem to have any affect on me.

You're 40 years old? Good christ, now I feel like Getbig should apologize to Vince Basile for comparing you to him. Even Basile is not a spastic like you.

Your mental instability is interesting, I'd like this thread to be one of those where the weirdo seeking attention (you) kills himself at the end to spite all of us. Can you please do that for me? It would make such a heartwarming Getbig Christmas moment.

[chaos]

I'm always confused when a fellow American makes the argument that, if we're not the worst, why should we change?

Is that really the America you want?

Hey, we're second worst in education, so fuck you!

You're not an American, you're a traitor hiding in slantsville whining about Americans and our policies. Stay fucked off and never return, we don't need your kind here.

[Conker]

Forget the gun lobbies this is an INDEPENDENT test carried out by a prestigious Ivy League University with no bias for or against

The irony is you have in your sig Science will win because it works!
This was a scientific test carried out by the best of the best Harvard Law , This makes you a HYPOCRITE because you don't like where the results lead you and that's YOUR OPINION IS WRONG , you have no integrity

If this test yielded the results that were in line with your irrational opinion they would be accurate & correct , but they don't so now you're reduced to giving some anecdotal bullshit story about some University in Australia 

You lost , deal with it.
Contrary to conventional wisdom, and the sniffs of our more sophisticated and generally anti-gun counterparts across the pond, the answer is "no." And not just no, as in there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, but an emphatic no, showing a negative correlation: as gun ownership increases, murder and suicide decreases.
 

That is bull, the difference between how different countries classify and compile violent crime figs renders these types of comparisons useless. The most reliable indicator when comparing violence in different societies is to look at homicide rates. The more murders in a country you can bet the more violent the society is as a whole.

[Conker]

These are also quite interesting findings re gun ownership/homicide rates.


Harvard Injury Control Research Center
Homicide



1. Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review).

Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries.  Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Hepburn, Lisa; Hemenway, David. Firearm availability and homicide: A review of the literature. Aggression and Violent Behavior: A Review Journal. 2004; 9:417-40.


2. Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.

We analyzed the relationship between homicide and gun availability using data from 26 developed countries from the early 1990s.  We found that across developed countries, where guns are more available, there are more homicides. These results often hold even when the United States is excluded.

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew. Firearm availability and homicide rates across 26 high income countries. Journal of Trauma. 2000; 49:985-88.


3. Across states, more guns = more homicide

Using a validated proxy for firearm ownership, we analyzed the relationship between firearm availability and homicide across 50 states over a ten year period (1988-1997).

After controlling for poverty and urbanization, for every age group, people in states with many guns have elevated rates of homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. Household firearm ownership levels and homicide rates across U.S. regions and states, 1988-1997. American Journal of Public Health. 2002: 92:1988-1993.


4. Across states, more guns = more homicide (2)

Using survey data on rates of household gun ownership, we examined the association between gun availability and homicide across states, 2001-2003. We found that states with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm homicide and overall homicide.  This relationship held for both genders and all age groups, after accounting for rates of aggravated assault, robbery, unemployment, urbanization, alcohol consumption, and resource deprivation (e.g., poverty). There was no association between gun prevalence and non-firearm homicide.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. State-level homicide victimization rates in the U.S. in relation to survey measures of household firearm ownership, 2001-2003. Social Science and Medicine. 2007; 64:656-64.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/index.html

[NarcissisticDeity]

That is bull, the difference between how different countries classify and compile violent crime figs renders these types of comparisons useless. The most reliable indicator when comparing violence in different societies is to look at homicide rates. The more murders in a country you can bet the more violent the society is as a whole.

Did you even read the study? Did you even bother? Lets see who we should believe Conker from Getbig of Harvard Law , seriously?

[The Abdominal Snoman]

The One World Government agenda wants all guns out of the hands of the people. One thing is for sure, once they get the guns out of the hands of the people, the media will not report another gun shooting. Its all a scam people.

[Conker]

Did you even read the study? Did you even bother? Lets see who we should believe Conker from Getbig of Harvard Law , seriously?

No I didn't read the study as I'm sure their findings will have been reached by extrapolating from each nation's respective official violent crime figs(correct me if I'm wrong?)

And going on those figs South Africa is supposedly far less violent than the UK...

It has been well documented that figs are useless for drawing accurate comparisons, as each country has different methods for compiling their figs.

[Conker]

"The comparison of violent crime statistics between countries is usually problematic, due to the way different countries classify crime.[2] Valid comparisons require that similar offences between jurisdictions be compared. Often this is not possible because crime statistics aggregate equivalent offences in such different ways that make it difficult or impossible to obtain a valid comparison."

[Soul Crusher]

http://gothamist.com/2012/12/18/sandy_hook_labeled_strike_zone_in_d.php

Some idle corners of the Internet are chattering about a number of coincidences that would appear to connect Dark Knight Rises with America’s two most recent horrifying gun massacres. After the mass shooting in an Aurora, Colorado movie theater during a midnight screening for the film, the word “Aurora” was spotted in bright lights atop a building in Dark Knight Rises. Now it seems the name “Sandy Hook” also has ties to the Batman flick... two, it would seem.

Before the movie came out, some media outlets received a “viral package” that contained a map showing a targeted area called Sandy Hook, which was labeled “Strike Zone 1.” In the movie, this is where Gotham Stadium is, and Commissioner Gordon points to it on a map (it’s the only thing you can read on the map aside from the word “Gotham”). What’s circulating is a theory that the Sandy Hook massacre was, on some subliminal level, brought on by the movie:

“As more of these ‘strange coincidences’ continue to pop up, it would take a fool not to question the motive behind it all: Is this all part of an evil pre-conditioning program? This definitely begins to tread into Satanic and occult territory, the purpose of which is known to only a select few in tight-knit circles at the very top branches of various secret societies.”

This attempt to draw a legitimate connection between a fictional film and a devastating real-life massacre comes off as trivializing. But we’ve got to admit it’s a pretty weird coincidence. If you’re inclined to take a closer look, there’s this:

And THIS IS FROM DECEMBER 2011!!

www.ugo.com/movies/the-dark-knight-rises-viral-package-strike-1

Strike 1

It’s a bad day to be a sports fan. Bane has Gotham Stadium set in his sights and it’s his first “strike zone.” What exactly will he do at each strike zone? We have no idea, but we’re willing to bet the stadium is going to need some repairs once the foe is finished with the location.

[NarcissisticDeity]

No I didn't read the study as I'm sure their findings will have been reached by extrapolating from each nation's respective official violent crime figs(correct me if I'm wrong?)

And going on those figs South Africa is supposedly far less violent than the UK...

It has been well documented that figs are useless for drawing accurate comparisons, as each country has different methods for compiling their figs.

The irony about the UK is

Comparing
crime rates
between America
and Britain is
flawed.  In
America, a gun
crime is recorded
as a gun crime.  In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition (a
conviction).  All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun crimes, grossly
undercounting the amount of gun crime there.
 260

[chaos]

The irony about the UK is

Comparing
crime rates
between America
and Britain is
flawed.  In
America, a gun
crime is recorded
as a gun crime.  In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition (a
conviction).  All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun crimes, grossly
undercounting the amount of gun crime there.
 260

pwned

[Primemuscle]

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

Now mind you our foreign friends this is an independent study NO WAY affiliated with any pro-gun group and you don't get much better than Harvard 

They answer these questions "Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence."

Needless to say it's a resounding NO

Contrary to conventional wisdom, and the sniffs of our more sophisticated and generally anti-gun counterparts across the pond, the answer is "no." And not just no, as in there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, but an emphatic no, showing a negative correlation: as gun ownership increases, murder and suicide decreases.

So when you wanna talk guns better bring facts and not emotions

Facts: The authors of this article have made careers in areas concerning gun control and the second Amendment. Is it not possible they only quoted statistics which supported their positions? Gary Mauser lives and works in Canada. Don Kates work has primarily been with the second Amendment and Civil Rights. Neither professor is a graduate of Harvard Law. The article uses tables supposed available through the Harvard Law library and this is the article's only connection to Harvard Law.

We live in a time when there are statistics to support whatever position one wishes to take on pretty much any subject.

Did it not occur to you that there might be bias on the part of these authors?

Professor Gary Mauser

Gary A. Mauser is a Professor Emeritus at the Faculty of Business Administration and the Institute for Urban Canadian Research Studies at Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, British Columbia. Professor Mauser earned his Ph.D. from the University of California at Irvine. He has dual American and Canadian citizenship. He and his wife, Ede Wong, have five children and live in Coquitlam.

His interest in firearms and “gun control” grew out of his research in political marketing. He has published two books, Political Marketing, and Manipulating Public Opinion and more than 20 articles. For the past 15 years, Professor Mauser has conducted research on the politics of gun control, the effectiveness of gun control laws, and the use of firearms in self defense.

Gary has been a featured speaker in New Zealand, Australia, Great Britain, and in North America.

He purchased his first firearm after moving to Canada and conducting research into firearm legislation. He is a member of the Canadian Firearms Advisory Committee for Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day and of the British Columbia Wildlife Federation.

Don Kates is one of the foremost litigators, criminologists and scholars on the Second Amendment and the fundamental right to self-defense and the individual right to keep and bear arms in the country. A renowned civil rights advocate, Professor Kates has been involved in practically every major case involving these issues for over 30 years. Professor Kates has also written extensively on these subjects, and has published numerous criminological reviews on gun control laws and their ineffectiveness in reducing violent crime.

Early in his career, Professor Kates did civil rights legal work in the South and clerked for civil rights lawyer William Kunstler. Professor Kates’ first decade in practice was with Legal Services for the poor where he handled constitutional and other major public interest civil rights litigation exclusively. After teaching constitutional and criminal law at St. Louis University, Professor Kates moved to San Francisco where he continued to practice civil rights advocacy and became involved in advocating on behalf of gun owners’ right to self-defense. Since then, he has handled many of the most significant cases in the country relating to the Second Amendment and self-defense civil rights. This subject remains his forte. Professor Kates has authored or edited several books and numerous articles on the law and criminology of firearms. He continues to lecture and teach on a variety of subjects.

Professor Kates graduated from Reed College in 1962 and Yale Law School in 1966.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Facts: The authors of this article have made careers in areas concerning gun control and the second Amendment. Is it not possible they only quoted statistics which supported their positions? Gary Mauser lives and works in Canada. Don Kates work has primarily been with the second Amendment and Civil Rights. Neither professor is a graduate of Harvard Law. The article uses tables supposed available through the Harvard Law library and this is the article's only connection to Harvard Law.

We live in a time when there are statistics to support whatever position one wishes to take on pretty much any subject.

Did it not occur to you that there might be bias on the part of these authors?

Actually no

It is important to note here that Profs. Kates and Mauser are not pro-gun zealots. In fact, they go out of their way to stress that their study neither proves that gun control causes higher murder rates nor that increased gun ownership necessarily leads to lower murder rates. (Though, in my view, Prof. John Lott's More Guns, Less Crime does indeed prove the latter.) But what is clear, and what they do say, is that gun control is ineffectual at preventing murder, and apparently counterproductive.

[Conker]

The irony about the UK is

Comparing
crime rates
between America
and Britain is
flawed.  In
America, a gun
crime is recorded
as a gun crime.  In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition (a
conviction).  All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun crimes, grossly
undercounting the amount of gun crime there.
 260

Do have a link to the source of that info as sounds pretty dubious.

So if someone goes into a bank shoots the place up but never gets caught then it is not recorded as a gun crime here?...doesn't sound likely.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Do have a link to the source of that info as sounds pretty dubious.

So if someone goes into a bank shoots the place up but never gets caught then it is not recorded as a gun crime here?...doesn't sound likely.

Here is the original source

Gallant, Hills, Kopel, “Fear in Britain”, Independence Institute, July 18, 2000

[Primemuscle]

Actually no

It is important to note here that Profs. Kates and Mauser are not pro-gun zealots. In fact, they go out of their way to stress that their study neither proves that gun control causes higher murder rates nor that increased gun ownership necessarily leads to lower murder rates. (Though, in my view, Prof. John Lott's More Guns, Less Crime does indeed prove the latter.) But what is clear, and what they do say, is that gun control is ineffectual at preventing murder, and apparently counterproductive.

What would you say is professor Kates and professor Mauser's position on gun control? Nothing in my earlier response suggested they were "pro-gun zealots". To call someone a zealot would be an opinion. I was merely stating facts about these two authors.

Last night my wife and I had dinner with good friends. The wife is politically to the far right on almost every topic. The evening's discussion eventually was about the recent shootings and gun control. I was surprised that she was for a ban on automatic and semi-automatic weapons. However we all agreed that people should have the right to own non automatic hand guns and rifles. I bring this up because there are different aspects to gun control. It is misleading to speak of it only in a general sense; as if to suggest it is an all or nothing issue.

[orion]

Well, where have you lived, traveled, studied, worked?

I enjoy hockey and hockey fighting (watching or doing it), I'm sure as hell not going to apologize to a bedwetter like you for that. A respectful tussle now and then sets the world straight.

So other than being the punch line for Getbig jokes, go ahead, tell us what you've done to garner all this wordly experience.

I still think the dogs should have finished you off.

Well. he did fight off two pit bulls.  That trumps being in a hockey fight in my book

[NarcissisticDeity]

What would you say is professor Kates and professor Mauser's position on gun control? Nothing in my earlier response suggested they were "pro-gun zealots". To call someone a zealot would be an opinion. I was merely stating facts about these two authors.

Last night my wife and I had dinner with good friends. The wife is politically to the far right on almost every topic. The evening's discussion eventually was about the recent shootings and gun control. I was surprised that she was for a ban on automatic and semi-automatic weapons. However we all agreed that people should have the right to own non automatic hand guns and rifles. I bring this up because there are different aspects to gun control. It is misleading to speak of it only in a general sense; as if to suggest it is an all or nothing issue.

What would you say is professor Kates and professor Mauser's position on gun control? Nothing in my earlier response suggested they were "pro-gun zealots". To call someone a zealot would be an opinion. I was merely stating facts about these two authors.

I would say they are pro second amendment however the numbers speak for themselves and can be backed up by other sources.

CDC, Task Force on Community Preventive Services, “First Reports Evaluating the Effectiveness of
Strategies for Preventing Violence: Firearms Laws”, Oct 3, 2003 – a systematic review of 51 studies that
evaluated the effects of selected firearms laws on violence  -The U.S. government “found insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness
of any of the firearms laws or combinations of laws reviewed on violent outcomes.”
1

That's the CDC too boot

Last night my wife and I had dinner with good friends. The wife is politically to the far right on almost every topic. The evening's discussion eventually was about the recent shootings and gun control. I was surprised that she was for a ban on automatic and semi-automatic weapons. However we all agreed that people should have the right to own non automatic hand guns and rifles. I bring this up because there are different aspects to gun control. It is misleading to speak of it only in a general sense; as if to suggest it is an all or nothing issue.

Automatics are for all intents & purposes ' illegal ' you can buy them albeit they are cost prohibitive for anyone except the wealthy you also need a $200 ATF tax stamp and their permission to go to your home and make sure it's there and as is, along with a class 3 license . And the guns all use at Sandy Hook were semi-automatic. And a total ban on all semiautomatics wouldn't have prevented this nothing will because of the sheer randomness of these types of attacks

[Conker]

Here is the original source

Gallant, Hills, Kopel, “Fear in Britain”, Independence Institute, July 18, 2000

I've got to call BS on that TBH. I'm quite certain that our figs for all crime go on "recorded crimes" nothing to do with whether convictions follow.

One thing that is not disputable and very easy to cross reference is that we have around 35 gun homicides per year and you have something like 10,000 although your population is only 6 times greater.

[Conker]

here's a quick summary of how crimes are recorded in UK

"Recording a crime: the police decide to record the report of a crime and now need to determine how many crimes to record and what their offence types are. The Home Office issues rules to police forces on the counting and classification of crime. These Counting Rules for Recorded Crime are mostly straightforward, as most crimes are counted as ‘one crime per victim’ and the offence committed is obvious (e.g. a domestic burglary). However, they also cover special situations where more than one offence has taken place, maybe on several occasions over a period of time, or there is more than one offender or victim."

No convictions mentioned

[NarcissisticDeity]

I've got to call BS on that TBH. I'm quite certain that our figs for all crime go on "recorded crimes" nothing to do with whether convictions follow.

One thing that is not disputable and very easy to cross reference is that we have around 35 gun homicides per year and you have something like 10,000 although your population is only 6 times greater.

Only 6 times greater? that's a huge difference and your violent crime right is higher than ours per 100,000 , we're not even on this list's top 10