Author Topic: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?  (Read 3840 times)

The True Adonis

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2012, 09:41:25 PM »
no i didnt propose any such rule.

 i said i would draw the line at weapons which give the user the ability to kill several people at one time. and that is worded specifically vague for "legal" reasons  :D

see, the idea behind the statement was a general guiding principle that a judge could use to decide cases. let the congress make whatever laws they do, but if the people feel the government oversteps their bounds by putting to tight controls on weapons then they can take the law to court and the judge will decide the case based on that statement "ability to kill several people at one time".

you see in my scenario, i am the judge.  8)
???

tbombz

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2012, 09:52:39 PM »
???
basically what im trying to say is that i think that on this issue in particular its probably better to go case by case according to the present dangers of certain weapons. giving a judge the ability to judge laws the come about as to whether they are jusitifed or dangerous. At the moment, im not sure i like assault weapons, fully automatics, grenades, missiles, nukes ect being legal. and yes this is kind of an arbitrary thing. but so is government?  but what kind of  law could i write that would be changeable and adaptable to different scenarios so that only my preffered weapons are legal and those most dangerous ones are illegal? i think that would be very difficult and result in some thing too rigid.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2012, 09:54:41 PM »
I heard their was a petition called "FREEDOM TO KILL MASSES OF OTHER PEOPLES CHILDREN".  You would have to be a seriously deranged gun nut to want to sign it though!
::) come on, you don't need to be Einstein to figure out that shit was obviously started by an anti-gun nut not as you said a "gun nut"

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2012, 09:57:47 PM »
basically what im trying to say is that i think that on this issue in particular its probably better to go case by case according to the present dangers of certain weapons. giving a judge the ability to judge laws the come about as to whether they are jusitifed or dangerous. At the moment, im not sure i like assault weapons, fully automatics, grenades, missiles, nukes ect being legal. and yes this is kind of an arbitrary thing. but so is government?  but what kind of  law could i write that would be changeable and adaptable to different scenarios so that only my preffered weapons are legal and those most dangerous ones are illegal? i think that would be very difficult and result in some thing too rigid.

 ???

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2012, 10:11:32 PM »
I do not wish to leave all weapons legal and unregulated so therefore I think I draw the line at weapons which give their user the ability to kill several people at one time
right, so the autisic killer would then go with a bomb quite potenially killing even more depending on how big he made it.

People hell bent on killing are going to find a way to do it.  Stop fucking blamming guns.  There's a shitload of things to mass murder with.  If you think a person like this will just say fuck it because the can't get a gun, lol...

How about we start asking questions about what drugs this kid might have been on?  They hand them out like crazy, you know they had this kid on them!  It's looking like a lot of these psychos are on anti-depressants turning then into drug created psychopaths. Why aren't we fucking talking about that shit?  Or at least fucking asking questions about it?  Oh no, it's all guns and our fucked up founding fathers for the 2nd Amendment ::)

tbombz

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2012, 10:50:59 PM »
There's only three options.  Complete freedom, partial freedom, and no freedom.   Most people want partial freedom when it comes to weapons.  I don't know many who would argue for legalization of nuclear weapons.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2012, 11:13:42 PM »
There's only three options.  Complete freedom, partial freedom, and no freedom.   Most people want partial freedom when it comes to weapons.  I don't know many who would argue for legalization of nuclear weapons.
did you really just place nuclear weapons in the auto-rifle issue? ::)  fucking really?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2012, 11:19:35 PM »
Oh yea, I'm against guiding a comet toward an enemy on earth.  BB guns should be banned,... yea... that's what I'm saying lol....

The True Adonis

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2012, 11:35:53 PM »
basically what im trying to say is that i think that on this issue in particular its probably better to go case by case according to the present dangers of certain weapons. giving a judge the ability to judge laws the come about as to whether they are jusitifed or dangerous. At the moment, im not sure i like assault weapons, fully automatics, grenades, missiles, nukes ect being legal. and yes this is kind of an arbitrary thing. but so is government?  but what kind of  law could i write that would be changeable and adaptable to different scenarios so that only my preffered weapons are legal and those most dangerous ones are illegal? i think that would be very difficult and result in some thing too rigid.
What is YOUR definition of an Assault Weapon, just curious.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2012, 11:45:26 PM »
maybe this would be a better question for people: 

If you were a freaking nutbag and wanted to kill a bunch of people, could you figure out how to do that without an automatic rifle?  Come on... not hard to answer...  If that's your goal, you know you're going to find a way to do that.  Hell there are several commonly known ways to do that.  Take away guns, you might very well have someone coming up with a worse alternative.  Someone releasing a chlorine gas or another gas or a suicide bomb or any number of things.  The point being when a person reaches the point that they want to do something like this, they will do it.  This autistic kid would have killed no matter what and maybe more if he had been forced to choose another option.

You think the nutbag in Colorado would have just said fuck it if he couldn't get the weapons he wanted?  yea right...  He spent all that time planning the shit, he would have planned it another way if he couldn't have gotten the weapons to do it.  

What meds were these guys on, that's what I fucking want to know and what the media is fucking chickenshit to chase because big pharma pays their stupid asses.

Lets start asking real fucking questions before we go blaming guns.

Radical Plato

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2012, 12:16:32 AM »
did you really just place nuclear weapons in the auto-rifle issue? ::)  fucking really?
What's wrong with that? Nukes don't kill people.  More people die in auto accidents than from Nukes, and just because some nutters use Nukes for immoral purposes doesn't mean they can't be owned responsibly.  Just because you hate freedoms, don't try and prevent others pursuit of it.  Sound ridiculous doesn't it?, sadly this is the type of ridiculous reasoning people use for wanting to own all kinds of dangerous objects that are detrimental to civilised society!  Face it, your a selfish Nutter who couldn't give a flying fuck about building decent, safe and secure communities, your selfish interests take priority over absolutely everything else, even the lives of innocent children.
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Radical Plato

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2012, 12:29:53 AM »
maybe this would be a better question for people:

If you were a freaking nutbag and wanted to kill a bunch of people, could you figure out how to do that without an automatic rifle?  Come on... not hard to answer...  If that's your goal, you know you're going to find a way to do that.  Hell there are several commonly known ways to do that.  Take away guns, you might very well have someone coming up with a worse alternative.  Someone releasing a chlorine gas or another gas or a suicide bomb or any number of things.  The point being when a person reaches the point that they want to do something like this, they will do it.  This autistic kid would have killed no matter what and maybe more if he had been forced to choose another option.

You think the nutbag in Colorado would have just said fuck it if he couldn't get the weapons he wanted?  yea right...  He spent all that time planning the shit, he would have planned it another way if he couldn't have gotten the weapons to do it.  

What meds were these guys on, that's what I fucking want to know and what the media is fucking chickenshit to chase because big pharma pays their stupid asses.

Lets start asking real fucking questions before we go blaming guns.
What a load of bullshit, many people get to a point where they want to MURDER others, I have heard people say to each other many times that they are going to kill someone, only to have the heat of the moment cool down and for them to become clear thinking again.  It is human nature to experience extremes in emotion that lead people to act in ways that don't make sense.  Your examples of spending lots of time devising other weapons of mass destruction are bullshit, those type of devices are used by terrorist groups with a political motivation, these mass shootings are done by people who have snapped and while they are worked up grab a gun and start killing everyone.  They do this, WHY? Because they CAN, it is EASY.  Individuals will always take the path of least resistance, why bother taking the risk of months of collecting suspect materials, and scouring the Internet for lessons on how to build volatile weapons of mass destruction.(all by which time the extreme emotion has passed) when you can just easily access guns and shoot the shit out of everyone.

The fact is killing people with guns is the EASIEST way for an individual to kill lots of people (or anything for that matter).  That's why people love GUNS, EASE of USE, you put some bullets in it and pull a trigger, so easy, a child could do it.  Unlike more civilised countries, America has made it all too EASY to get a gun and kill people.  It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out why these shootings occur. It's because it is EASY EASY EASY.  If I ran a business and left the doors open overnight only to arrive in the morning and everything had gone, everyone would say "Well, you did make it EASY for that to happen".  Same deal here, America has made it EASY to SNAP and shoot up a bunch of people.  You want to know why these things happen, you made it EASY for it too.
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Primemuscle

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2012, 12:33:53 AM »
I do not wish to leave all weapons legal and unregulated so therefore I think I draw the line at weapons which give their user the ability to kill several people at one time

Agreed.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2012, 12:37:40 AM »
What's wrong with that? Nukes don't kill people.  More people die in auto accidents than from Nukes, and just because some nutters use Nukes for immoral purposes doesn't mean they can't be owned responsibly.  Just because you hate freedoms, don't try and prevent others pursuit of it.  Sound ridiculous doesn't it?, sadly this is the type of ridiculous reasoning people use for wanting to own all kinds of dangerous objects that are detrimental to civilised society!  Face it, your a selfish Nutter who couldn't give a flying fuck about building decent, safe and secure communities, your selfish interests take priority over absolutely everything else, even the lives of innocent children.
Calm down buddy... No need to wave the "I'm the biggest asshole ever" flag....  I'm willing to talk about it.

You're right, more people do die in auto accidents than from nukes and that includes from shootings!  Auto accidents are the leading cause of deaths for children of all ages.  Not once have I seen the president up there saying we've had enough, we can't go on like this.  Despite the fact that many kids who die in auto accidents will die a much more horrible death.  And one at a time doesn't make it any better than 20 at a time.

I'll tell you what I do see...  I see irresponsible automakers plastering the TV with commercial after commercial showing cars trucks and motorcycles speeding their asses off and promoting all other sorts of reckless behavior to sell their cars.  And yup, that's what kills most people and most kids....  But hey, let's change the constitution and America for what some retard did on meds ::)  That sounds like the bigger priority...  fracking brilliant!!!

Radical Plato

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2012, 12:50:49 AM »
Calm down buddy... No need to wave the "I'm the biggest asshole ever" flag....  I'm willing to talk about it.

You're right, more people do die in auto accidents than from nukes and that includes from shootings!  Auto accidents are the leading cause of deaths for children of all ages.  Not once have I seen the president up there saying we've had enough, we can't go on like this.  Despite the fact that many kids who die in auto accidents will die a much more horrible death.  And one at a time doesn't make it any better than 20 at a time.

I'll tell you what I do see...  I see irresponsible automakers plastering the TV with commercial after commercial showing cars trucks and motorcycles speeding their asses off and promoting all other sorts of reckless behavior to sell their cars.  And yup, that's what kills most people and most kids....  But hey, let's change the constitution and America for what some retard did on meds ::)  That sounds like the bigger priority...  fracking brilliant!!!
I have to keep posting this, because Gun Nuts aren't the deepest thinkers, but cars, trucks, trains and the whole transport system serve an obvious community benefit, individuals benefit from the system.  Citizens on the other hand owning guns, serves NO Community benefit, the HARM vs GOOD benefit to the community is out of balance, Gun Ownership causes more harm than good, hence the reason they are frequently the target of advocates who want to eliminate them from public consumption.  Normal citizens, the ones who aren't deeply self centred and community minded, weigh up the community benefit to individual loss ratio when deciding on what should be restricted and what shouldn't.  And GUNS bring way more HARM than GOOD to the community as opposed to cars and the Transport system.  BIG DIFFERENCE

I remember reading a study years ago about the cost to society from noise complaints regarding neighbours, and I remember they compared people who lived alongside a railway line with those who lived next door to noisy neighbours.  You would think that they would both be equally negatively impacted by the regular intrusions into their household living, but the people who lived next to the railway line were far better off, they discovered that they rationalised the situation and weighed up the community benefit that trains provide against the general annoyance they felt when hearing the trains, and also because of the predictable nature of trains and the fact they knew that the noise was short lived, it made the situation bearable, unlike the neighbour who had rowdy neighbours, it was impossible to judge when the neighbours would cause the disturbance, nor how long it would go on for, and the noise almost always served no community benefit, it was always a selfish indulgence by the neighbour.  These factors, No Community benefit and Predictability were major factors on the negative impact on individuals and to the community at large (the handling of noise complaints cost a lot of money, also sometimes people were killed over it) when handling Noise Complaints. 

And this is the Issue, individuals who aren't obsessed with GUNS and don't feel the need to own one, get ZERO benefit from their neighbours owning guns and mass shooting are impossible to predict (statistically, they are INEVITABLE in America) when and where they will happen next, putting the average citizen in a fearful state (this is the state GUN NUTTERS prey on, hoping that if everyone becomes afraid enough, they will finally cave in too the GUN NUTTERS and buy a GUN for so called protection, even though STATS show you are more likely to be killed during a crime if you have a gun than if you don't).  The average NORMAL citizen will weigh up the benefit of something as opposed to the risk to their health when advocating for something, and the actuarial risk of individual gun ownership for citizens has now become so great, and the benefit/loss ratio so unbalanced, that the general community is now at GREAT Risk due to a selfish individual privilege granted to citizens by the Government.  Communities Interests must come first for them to be SAFE, SECURE and HEALTHY, selfish Interest will always erode any Community!  Time for Individuals to grow up and put their communities first, and ironically, the Individual will also prosper.
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2012, 01:11:17 AM »
Citizens on the other hand owning guns, serves NO Community benefit
says you!...  Tell that to the many other nations who have been disarmed and have thugs or various other atrocities committed against them.  And don't fucking think it can't happen here just because it's America.  It can.

There are plenty of other things killing people as we've talked about that can be addressed without treading on the constitution.  If the president just started talking about what crap auto commercials are getting away with he would probably save more kids in the next 5 years than were killed the other day.  No law needed, it would just be bad PR for them to do it.  The auto industry promotes bad behavior behind the wheel and that's the leading cause of death for kids of all ages!  Yea, where is the freaking priority here?  We would rather change the Contitution than just address the leading cause of death for kids?  Are you fucking kidding me?

tbombz

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2012, 01:15:44 AM »
True adonis you asked me for my definition of an assault weapon. I think you want to know where I would draw the line.  I think your suggestion of limiting guns to one shot might be good. Single shot rifles and hand guns. That way you can protect yourself from other people, even if they do have a semi or fully automatic weapon. One good shot and they are dead.

magikusar

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2012, 03:01:59 AM »
was it in regards to alcohol use?

b/c that kills many more innocent ppl than guns do every year, why isnt your liberal bleeding heart crying about banning that?

this

dont mention smoking ssh

or driving cars

Radical Plato

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2012, 03:35:25 AM »
says you!...  Tell that to the many other nations who have been disarmed and have thugs or various other atrocities committed against them.  And don't fucking think it can't happen here just because it's America.  It can.

There are plenty of other things killing people as we've talked about that can be addressed without treading on the constitution.  If the president just started talking about what crap auto commercials are getting away with he would probably save more kids in the next 5 years than were killed the other day.  No law needed, it would just be bad PR for them to do it.  The auto industry promotes bad behavior behind the wheel and that's the leading cause of death for kids of all ages!  Yea, where is the freaking priority here?  We would rather change the Contitution than just address the leading cause of death for kids?  Are you fucking kidding me?

The whole Cars argument is absurd, I have already pointed out the obvious community benefit and Community Good VS Community Harm argument, but the other factor that needs to be noted is, you are comparing fatalities caused by ACCIDENTS, events that aren't deliberate or malicious as opposed to PRE MEDITATED MASS MURDERS using a tool created with a specific purpose of being an efficient killing tool,  cars are being used for a beneficial purpose and occasionally during their operation they cause fatalities.  Guns on the other hand, don't have any other purpose than to cause serious injury or death.  And the majority of gun deaths would be deliberate acts of violence.  The things that really gets me, is GUN Nutters argue that they need a firearm for protection, but Protection from what?  It can't be Gun Violence, because as the Gun Nuts point out, the chances of that happening, is so small as too not worry about it!  Protection from your own Government, do you really think that the American Military is going to be stopped by a bunch of red-necks with a few firearms.  If their was a coup tomorrow and a Military Dictator took charge, do you really think with the Military's advanced armoury that armed civilians would stand a chance against such powerful Military Weapons.

 It just seems strange to me this argument, that their is nothing to worry about, that statistics show that the chances of being killed by a gun are remote, but then people arm themselves and say, Why take the chance?  Personally, if you own a gun for protection, you are being unnecessarily AFRAID, and if you own one for recreation and sporting purposes, well, you're just a DOUCHE! If your a farmer and you use them for preserving livestock etc, that's an appropriate use of a gun, if your a hunter, and you hunt and eat what you kill, that's an appropriate use of a gun.  other than that, what purpose is served by ordinary citizens owning a GUN OTHER THAN PROPPING UP an Individuals DEFICIENT PERSONALITY or a desperate insecurity, fear and anxiety!
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garebear

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2012, 06:02:58 AM »
What is YOUR definition of an Assault Weapon, just curious.
Hey, look. Here's someone who shares your views.

Good luck with that.

 http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/12/17/tennessee-pastor-mass-shootings-because-schools-teach-evolution-and-how-to-be-a-homo/
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whork

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2012, 07:09:11 AM »
says you!...  Tell that to the many other nations who have been disarmed and have thugs or various other atrocities committed against them.  And don't fucking think it can't happen here just because it's America.  It can.

There are plenty of other things killing people as we've talked about that can be addressed without treading on the constitution.  If the president just started talking about what crap auto commercials are getting away with he would probably save more kids in the next 5 years than were killed the other day.  No law needed, it would just be bad PR for them to do it.  The auto industry promotes bad behavior behind the wheel and that's the leading cause of death for kids of all ages!  Yea, where is the freaking priority here?  We would rather change the Contitution than just address the leading cause of death for kids?  Are you fucking kidding me?

Lets face it guns in the hands of ordinary people isnt gnna do jack shit against a trained force sent by an evil government.

Do you want handgrenades and bazookas on the street?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2012, 07:11:33 AM »
Lets face it guns in the hands of ordinary people isnt gnna do jack shit against a trained force sent by an evil government.

Do you want handgrenades and bazookas on the street?


When civil order breaks down how do people defend themselves from the animals and savages.

whork

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2012, 07:34:29 AM »

When civil order breaks down how do people defend themselves from the animals and savages.

If every nutjob who is not satisfied with his life has easy access to weapons goes killing kids there will be no civil order to protect.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2012, 07:41:22 AM »
If every nutjob who is not satisfied with his life has easy access to weapons goes killing kids there will be no civil order to protect.


Genie is already out of the lamp on that

Shockwave

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Re: Any Petitions out there PREVENTING "Assault" Rifle bans?
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2012, 07:56:00 AM »
Lets face it guns in the hands of ordinary people isnt gnna do jack shit against a trained force sent by an evil government.
Wrong.