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Author Topic: new cycle: blast from beginning or gradual build up  (Read 5230 times)
efanhowz
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« on: December 28, 2012, 01:46:29 AM »

2 options im considering

option 1: blasting 1.5g test per week from the beginning?
                               
                                or

option 2: gradually build up..... shoot 750mg every 10 day, then 9th day, 8th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 4th THEN start at 1.5 per week
so then i would end up shooting 1.5g after 7 weeks of buildup and continue @1.5g

dbol/drol will only be used preworkout for 5 weeks max when i am at my peak test blood level

im working with hg orangon, testobolin, and induject sust
also tsm dbol and drol
taking a break from tren and deca
tired of injects
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Borracho
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« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2012, 07:13:05 AM »

2 options im considering

option 1: blasting 1.5g test per week from the beginning?
                              
                                or

option 2: gradually build up..... shoot 750mg every 10 day, then 9th day, 8th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 4th THEN start at 1.5 per week
so then i would end up shooting 1.5g after 7 weeks of buildup and continue @1.5g

dbol/drol will only be used preworkout for 5 weeks max when i am at my peak test blood level

im working with hg orangon, testobolin, and induject sust
also tsm dbol and drol
taking a break from tren and deca
tired of injects


I would go with the way that will get you there the quickest.

http://www.roidcalc.com/

I'd say option 1 if you've used that much test in the past.
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Overload
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« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2012, 08:11:27 AM »

Just start off with what you're going to use and run the orals the first 5 weeks.

No reason to make it more complicated when it's not going to make a difference to be honest.



Cool
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efanhowz
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« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2012, 10:36:30 AM »

Thx you're probably right it won't make a difference. No I have never used this much test before. Last time I used 1250 mg I blew up with acne. I was hoping a gradual buildup would help with sides. Who knows
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efanhowz
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« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2012, 10:46:29 AM »

My one concern for the argument:

Do u believe we max out our gains after a certain amount of time?
Example: after 8-10 weeks u stop gaining no matter what amounts you increase
This would justify blasting from the beginning if our bodies actually have a limited window for gains
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AlphaMaleDawg
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« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2012, 07:44:23 PM »

My plan for my next blast is to up doses slightly or add compounds every two weeks. This way I'll see if I can keep growing the whole time since I usually blow up the first 5-6 weeks and then it stops.
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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2012, 08:09:38 AM »

Slowly increasing the dosage only delays the sides as long as it takes you to build up the dosage. Once you hit 1500mg you are going to have the same sides in my experience. Whether it's week 4 or week 8 the sides seem to match the dose and that's why i always just started with my desired dose and when i did ramp up i never noticed any benefits.

Many people seem to plateau around 5-6 weeks and this is why i have been rotating different compounds every 2 months or so. One thing to remember is that those first few weeks your are gaining all of your water weight, but you aren't really adding any muscle. It takes months/years to build muscle and once you hit a plateau that doesn't mean you aren't gaining muscle anymore. In my experience, i typically start to gain the mature muscle at around 12 weeks and this is why i like to run long cycles.

On the 8 month cycle i did in 2012, i gained about 12 pounds in the first 8 weeks. By the end of that 8 month period i had gained 20 pounds of "quality" weight without an incease in bodyfat. I don't think the body stops gaining after a few weeks; in fact i believe that a person can easily gain muscle over many years of just taking 500mg of Test. I know a good friend who has been on 750mg of Test E for 3 years and he has gained around 35 pounds of solid mass. He hasn't lowered the dosage at all. This guy knows how to eat and trains with me, so i see him all the time.

Everyone is different, but that's my take on it.


Cool
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efanhowz
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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2013, 09:21:45 PM »

thanks. i always get impatient after the initial weight gain ceases.
but thats true muscle takes YEARS to build.
i am going to eat way more clean than what i have considered a "normal" bulking plan
eat as much lean protein as possible
be patient and probably wont even weigh myself

so i am shooting 750mg test e7d, e6d, e5d, e4d
then will continue at 1.5gram per week (or 750 e4d which is )
then add orals and will also gradually build up those at increasing doseages

i may lower the test dose bc i am used to possibly underdosed ug labs and im using great hg stuff this time
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Borracho
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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2013, 03:25:10 PM »

Slowly increasing the dosage only delays the sides as long as it takes you to build up the dosage. Once you hit 1500mg you are going to have the same sides in my experience. Whether it's week 4 or week 8 the sides seem to match the dose and that's why i always just started with my desired dose and when i did ramp up i never noticed any benefits.

Many people seem to plateau around 5-6 weeks and this is why i have been rotating different compounds every 2 months or so. One thing to remember is that those first few weeks your are gaining all of your water weight, but you aren't really adding any muscle. It takes months/years to build muscle and once you hit a plateau that doesn't mean you aren't gaining muscle anymore. In my experience, i typically start to gain the mature muscle at around 12 weeks and this is why i like to run long cycles.

On the 8 month cycle i did in 2012, i gained about 12 pounds in the first 8 weeks. By the end of that 8 month period i had gained 20 pounds of "quality" weight without an incease in bodyfat. I don't think the body stops gaining after a few weeks; in fact i believe that a person can easily gain muscle over many years of just taking 500mg of Test. I know a good friend who has been on 750mg of Test E for 3 years and he has gained around 35 pounds of solid mass. He hasn't lowered the dosage at all. This guy knows how to eat and trains with me, so i see him all the time.

Everyone is different, but that's my take on it.


Cool

Gonna give this a go...would you mind telling me how you guys usually train

Thanks.

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darkrid3r
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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2013, 03:47:56 PM »

I have to say unless your already a big guy 1500mg is a lot.

I run 1000 all year round. 5 foot 9 230 pounds.

I do blast up to 1500-2500 from time to time, but only for about 8-10 weeks, then its back down to cruise.

After this contest im going back down to 500 for a few months for a break. That does not mean I wont grow, just that I cant push as hard and or heal as fast.

There are lots of factors to growth not just drugs.

AAS does not build new muscle, it repairs what is already there. A lot of people make this assumption that AAS is a magical drug and you will get big. Its just filing out what you have, giving you the ability to train more, longer faster, shuttling good and bad stuff around the body in preparation for you hammering it.

Without proper diet, training and rest, drugs are useless.

Overload is also right, it does not matter if your on 1500 now or later, sides will be sides. I am also prone to acne, I found a product without BB in it, clocked at only 240 but works like a charm, I like to call this "clean gear" Clean gear is hard to find but worth it IMO.

The fact of the matter has already been stated, it takes years and years and years to gain muscle.
A genetically gifted guy puts on 8-12 pounds a year (from stage to stage, after diet etc)

The 30 pounds you put on is not muscle, its FILLER. Not that its bad, if your lean enough you will look like you have larger muscles.

Take your time, there is no rush. Safe first.

My split is like this:

Monday AM chest
Tuesday AM Back, PM 1 hour cardio
Wednesday AM Legs, PM 1 hour cardio
Thursday AM shoulders
Friday AM Arms, PM 1 hour cardio.

when I have tuns of drugs in me.

Monday AM Chest PM Tri
Tuesday AM Back PM Bicep
Wednesday AM Legs, PM Legs
Thursday 1 hour cardio
Friday Repeat

This last one can only last about 4-6 weeks, you burn out fast.
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« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2013, 06:55:37 AM »

Great post man!

I'll post up some training info later today.


Cool
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efanhowz
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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2013, 11:35:15 PM »

I've been shooting 750mg e5d which is 1050mg/wk
Bloat is noticeable
Face acne is gone but body acne slowly coming
I'm really liking the less frequent pins for once
Strength slowly gaining
Will increase dbol dose by 20mg/week until I reach 80mg
Then will throw in drol
Taking things slow, focusing on eating and training heavy
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latiuss
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2013, 04:31:10 PM »

Im doing sus every other day till the vials gone with 600mg of deca..dbol preworkout .once the sus is gone going to pin 800mg of test with the deca. Sides are more noticable but so is the crazy increase in strength so imo its worth it because the acne shouldnt stay around too long, going to run accutane ina cuple weeks aswell to help that...
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efanhowz
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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2013, 02:19:14 AM »

I am not big by getbig standards. That's why I'm reconsidering after your guys feedback and keeping the test dose to 1050mg/wk plus orals.

I have a pic at 5'10.5" 195lbs with abs, will upload it when I get to a comp

That said I started lifting in college at 140lbs
Got up to 180lbs @ %13 bf calculated by hydrostatically weighed dunk tank
Juiced up to fat 225, down, up, down, increased dose, slowly figured out diet
Trial and error until you realize DIET and TIME are what makes you big

Troll away
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efanhowz
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« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2013, 02:12:57 AM »

Thanks galeniko
I actually did cut for 12 weeks, went off a month, and here I am now going for lean gains
Like you say I also only take orals 2-3 hrs preworkout days only, really helps lower sides
I am taking 40mg ug nolva per day and .5mg pharm grade arimidex on Monday and Thursday. Might increase it but I hate how arimidex affects my joints at anything above 1.5mg per week
We share some of the same ideas, how come I don't look like you? Jk
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Borracho
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« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2013, 02:27:02 PM »

Gonna give this a go...would you mind telling me how you guys usually train

Thanks.


Great post man!

I'll post up some training info later today.


Cool

Reason I ask about your training is because I hear that over training can become more of a concern when running low to moderate dosages. What are your thoughts on this?
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2013, 09:12:26 PM »

Gradual build up is smarter.

Since I was off trt and my body went to shitz in 10 months I thought "BIG COME BACK CYCLE" I blew up (1g test, 600mg deca, anadrol 100mg ed, superdrol 20mg), i also flared up gyno like NEVER before, and.... I tore my shoulder/pec by going 40lbs up per dumbell in a month. Everyone could tell something was fishy, instant strength gains, epic size gains (and i lost 2" off waist without cardio). And then injury + gyno. Plus since Ramadan was around the corner, since I was in a bulk, the sudden crash in calories + fasting didn't go well. Lost 17lbs no it was not all fat

The ramadan prior on the hand while still on trt i RECOMPED and was blasting 1.4g of sustanon test! So you see the difference? However I got off trt and all hell broke lose. Within ONLY two weeks off getting off trt, I stayed the same weight but gained so much fat and lost so much muscle that I went from 33" waist to 37" waist... horribly depressing (I wasn't fasting either at this point yet had NO appetite). Misery ensued for 3 months but that was another story.. aah being off trt.

Yeah... it's smarter in my opinion to build up.. then when you 'feel right' cruise on that, blast.

Prior to that shenanigans of getting off trt.. i was cruising between 500-750g and blasting at 1g of test... it worked BUT i worked my way up to that... within a year's time i was at the same weight i started (pre-trt (this is the first time not second trt time) but COMPLETELY different body composition)

Now after the 'come back' error and ramadan... i have been doing JUST trt dose of 200 test but i add in other injectables to do the work instead... i am doing great...

Jumping in so fast especially if you're fat will probably result in gyno and side effects. Now that I am lean again (dropped 7 inches off my waist since starting trt again in may) i can blast all i want and i barely even run an ai but im not getting gyno.. i got it all under control...

Just my two cents..
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whitewidow
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« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2013, 05:48:17 AM »

I prefer blitz cycles. screw building up. every cycle i have done I have never gained past the 4th week on a AAS cycle. I ran HGH solo for over a year and the gains kept coming. But when I used to run just AAS with no HGH all the weight gain stopped after 4 weeks. Being a hardgainer it was crazy jumping up 15-20 bs in a month of course some of it was water retention but it did not look that bad, especially since I always started a cycle when i was 6-8% BF.Once I cutt the water i always netted around 9-12 lbs lean body mass.
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« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2013, 12:09:04 PM »

Reason I ask about your training is because I hear that over training can become more of a concern when running low to moderate dosages. What are your thoughts on this?

Like gal said, it depends on your daily average activity.  People who work in an office all day like me can get away with different things because we rest so much.  I don't think overtraining is something to worry about, but if you train a muscle group too often then that is another issue.  I think hitting each muscle group once a week is fine as long as you hit it with some intensity.  I'm not a high volume guy, but I'm a high intensity guy, almost all of my workouts are extremely intense with very little rest in between sets.  After 4 weeks of high intensity workouts, i deload one week and just use 60% of the weight i normally and just go through the motions for an entire week.  Then i change up my routine completely and hit it hard again.

My best advice is to not worry too much about overtraining as long as you are making progress in the gym and feel good.  The only times i ever felt worn down and beat up from lifting was when i was training like a mad man for power lifting meets.  I was training each lift twice a week, one day was max effort and the other was speed day.  I was training way too often and wore myself out.  After a few weeks away from the gym i felt fine and i was on some massive dosages.  Even on 3g's of AAS and eating 6k calories a day i was overtraining IMO, i just wasn't resting enough and was in the gym 6 days a week.  My gains slowed down and i felt like shit.

These days i train very intense, but i only use medium weights for sets of 10-15 reps.  Very rarely will i go heavy.  Typically i do 12-16 sets per muscle group and i only do 4-6 sets for arms.  I have noticed that direct arm training doesn't really do much for me as i do a lot of dips and rows.  My arms never really respond to it and it makes my elbows sore as shit, so i rarely train arms and when i do it's very light weight.

I will pick 3-4 exercises per muscle group and do a few warm ups, then i do 3-4 working sets, i only count working sets.  I don't go to failure, but i get pretty close to it on my last set.  I typically start off with the most difficult movement and then do the easier ones later in the workout as I'm losing energy.  I will stick with a routine for 5 weeks, the first 4 weeks i train balls out, maximum intensity, i sweat like a beast and put 100% into the workout, no slacking.  Then on the 5th week i deload and take it easy.  Then i completely change my routine and go through the same layout.  I have noticed one of the biggest keys to success is to change up your workouts frequently, keep your body guessing, do movements you have never done, do a weird order of exercises that makes no sense, just change shit up in the middle of a workout.  It sounds silly, but i swear it works.  Don't get stuck in a rut thinking you have to do flat bench or you have to start off with pressing.  Fuck it, start off with dips, then machine flys, then incline DB.  Just mix it up.

Example routine, this is what i am doing right now, keep in mind i train for endurance and Muay Thai:

Workout 1:
Flat DB press: 4 sets of 10-15 reps
Dips: 3 sets of 15-20 reps
Cable incline flys: 3 sets 10-15 reps
Machine decline: 3 sets of 10-15 reps
1 minute rest max between sets.

Workout 2:
Wide grip chins: 4 sets of 10-15 reps
one arm DB rows: 3 sets of 15-20 reps
Seated cable rows: 3 sets of 10-15 reps
Reverse machine flys: 3 sets of 15-20 reps
Deadlifts: 3 sets of 10-15 reps

Workout 3:
Standing BB press: 4 sets of 10-15 reps
One arm DB snatch: 3 sets of 15-20 reps
Upright rows: 3 sets of 10-15 reps
DB shrugs: 3 sets of 10-15 reps

Workout 4:
Front BB squats: 4 sets of 10-15 reps
Power cleans: 5 sets of 3 reps
Leg extensions: 3 sets of 15-20 reps
Single Leg curls: 3 sets of 10-15 reps
Seated calf raises: 4 sets of 15-20 reps

This is a typical week for me, i also do Muay Thai twice a week and sometimes i will miss a weightlifting session to spar or do bag work.  It just depends on my work schedule.  As you can see i keep it pretty straight forward and i don't get too crazy, but i train like a beast, nonstop work, very little rest.  I will do this routine for 5 weeks and then change it up completely, almost every exercise will change or be in another order.  Sometimes i do 6-8 reps if i feel really good, but heavy weights aren't my concern anymore.

Let me know what you think, i have a bunch of other layouts i use as well.  Some are strength based or more full body based.  I like to mix Olympic lifting in with my routines as well as some speed training.

Good luck!


Cool
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Borracho
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« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2013, 12:34:30 PM »

^
Wow that was a great read man thanks!

Wrt the training, I heard that your body is taking such a beating as it gets bigger and stronger so what larger doses will do is compensate for this "overtraining" and allow you to keep progressing. However, simply by training smart and intense exactly as you laid out will prevent the need for more drugs in order to continue growing...to a certain extent of course. Even on large doses as you mentioned overtaining is a possibility so the best thing we can do is listen what our body is telling us.

Been feeling pretty crappy in the gym lately...even outside actually. No energy, sore joints etc. All the things you mentioned like the de-loading, intense workouts, switching things up should help in that regard.

Thanks!

depends, on job and resting etc.

i often like to be just on the verge of evertraining.

sounds stupid i know, but keeps me more cut.




Makes sense....dieting/being lean is a catabolic process anyway. You got the size you want...I'm still playing catch up.  Grin
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