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Author Topic: Ed Schultz Claims U.S. Has ‘Never Had a Civilian Stop a Shooting’  (Read 1338 times)
Hugo Chavez
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« on: January 16, 2013, 08:47:27 AM »

This guy is such an idiot.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/11/ed-schultz-makes-bold-claim-that-u-s-has-never-had-a-civilian-stop-a-shooting/
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tonymctones
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2013, 09:29:53 AM »

Isn't part of the argument against high cap mags is it will give ppl a chance to stop the person when their reloading?

If this moron truly believes that civilians don't stop shootings he needs to rethink his proposed gun control strategies.

The utter nonsense of this and the undoubted parrots that will repeat it is idiotic.

The day that the sandy hook shooting took place there was a shooting in San Antonio Texas where a guy shot his girlfriend in a restaurant and when ppl started fleeing he followed them to try and kill others. They fled into a movie theatre which was full when he got in there he was taken down by an female off duty police officer OTHERWISE KNOWN AS A CIVILIAN!!!

I'm betting many ppl haven't heard anything about the incident I mentioned, probably bc it goes against the main stream agenda
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2013, 01:24:36 PM »

Here's just a few out of hundreds of documented incidents where shooters were stopped by armed civilians:

—Mayan Palace Theater, San Antonio, Texas, this week: Jesus Manuel Garcia shoots at a movie theater, a police car and bystanders from the nearby China Garden restaurant; as he enters the movie theater, guns blazing, an armed off-duty cop shoots Garcia four times, stopping the attack. Total dead: Zero.

—Winnemucca, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez opens fire in a crowded restaurant; concealed carry permit-holder shoots him dead. Total dead: Two. (I’m excluding the shooters’ deaths in these examples.)

—Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant shoots the dean and a professor, then begins shooting students; as he goes for more ammunition, two armed students point their guns at him, allowing a third to tackle him. Total dead: Three.

—Santee, Calif., 2001: Student begins shooting his classmates — as well as the “trained campus supervisor”; an off-duty cop who happened to be bringing his daughter to school that day points his gun at the shooter, holding him until more police arrive. Total dead: Two.

—Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: After shooting several people at his high school, student heads for the junior high school; assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieves a .45 pistol from his car and points it at the gunman’s head, ending the murder spree. Total dead: Two.

—Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student shoots up a junior high school dance being held at a restaurant; restaurant owner pulls out his shotgun and stops the gunman. Total dead: One.

—Muskegon, Michigan: From the Aug. 23, 1995, issue of the Muskegon Chronicle: “Plans to slay everyone in the Muskegon, Michigan, store and steal enough cash and jewelry to feed their ‘gnawing hunger for crack cocaine’ fell apart for a band of would-be killers after one of their victims fought back. Store owner Clare Cooper was returning behind the counter after showing three of the four conspirators some jewelry, when one of the group pulled out a gun and shot him four times in the back. Stumbling for the safety of his bullet-proof glass-encased counter, Cooper managed to grab his shotgun and fire as the suspects fled.”

—Colorado Springs, Colo.: On Dec. 9, 2007, gunman Mathew Murray, 24, launched an armed attack against the parishioners of the New Life Church that ultimately left two innocent victims dead. But the toll could have been much higher, were it not for the heroic actions of former police officer Jeanne Assam from Minnesota. In an interview she said she very nearly decided not to go to church that morning but because she saw a headline on her computer indicating that two young people were murdered and a training center for Christian missionaries about 70 miles away in the Denver suburb of Arvada, she changed her mind. Murray shot a total of five people before an armed Assam shot and killed him. There were about 7,000 people at the church at the time of the attack.
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Emmortal
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2013, 01:26:04 PM »

Oh and this:

http://www.examiner.com/article/media-blackout-oregon-mall-shooter-was-stopped-by-an-armed-citizen
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GigantorX
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2013, 01:55:18 PM »

Here's just a few out of hundreds of documented incidents where shooters were stopped by armed civilians:

—Mayan Palace Theater, San Antonio, Texas, this week: Jesus Manuel Garcia shoots at a movie theater, a police car and bystanders from the nearby China Garden restaurant; as he enters the movie theater, guns blazing, an armed off-duty cop shoots Garcia four times, stopping the attack. Total dead: Zero.

—Winnemucca, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez opens fire in a crowded restaurant; concealed carry permit-holder shoots him dead. Total dead: Two. (I’m excluding the shooters’ deaths in these examples.)

—Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant shoots the dean and a professor, then begins shooting students; as he goes for more ammunition, two armed students point their guns at him, allowing a third to tackle him. Total dead: Three.

—Santee, Calif., 2001: Student begins shooting his classmates — as well as the “trained campus supervisor”; an off-duty cop who happened to be bringing his daughter to school that day points his gun at the shooter, holding him until more police arrive. Total dead: Two.

—Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: After shooting several people at his high school, student heads for the junior high school; assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieves a .45 pistol from his car and points it at the gunman’s head, ending the murder spree. Total dead: Two.

—Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student shoots up a junior high school dance being held at a restaurant; restaurant owner pulls out his shotgun and stops the gunman. Total dead: One.

—Muskegon, Michigan: From the Aug. 23, 1995, issue of the Muskegon Chronicle: “Plans to slay everyone in the Muskegon, Michigan, store and steal enough cash and jewelry to feed their ‘gnawing hunger for crack cocaine’ fell apart for a band of would-be killers after one of their victims fought back. Store owner Clare Cooper was returning behind the counter after showing three of the four conspirators some jewelry, when one of the group pulled out a gun and shot him four times in the back. Stumbling for the safety of his bullet-proof glass-encased counter, Cooper managed to grab his shotgun and fire as the suspects fled.”

—Colorado Springs, Colo.: On Dec. 9, 2007, gunman Mathew Murray, 24, launched an armed attack against the parishioners of the New Life Church that ultimately left two innocent victims dead. But the toll could have been much higher, were it not for the heroic actions of former police officer Jeanne Assam from Minnesota. In an interview she said she very nearly decided not to go to church that morning but because she saw a headline on her computer indicating that two young people were murdered and a training center for Christian missionaries about 70 miles away in the Denver suburb of Arvada, she changed her mind. Murray shot a total of five people before an armed Assam shot and killed him. There were about 7,000 people at the church at the time of the attack.


Got a link to this?
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Straw Man
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2013, 03:27:22 PM »


I read the story

it's not at all clear that the shooter was stopped by the "armed citizen" in any way at all

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Hugo Chavez
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2013, 03:47:03 PM »

I read the story

it's not at all clear that the shooter was stopped by the "armed citizen" in any way at all


Straw, clearly it does and has happened.  Schultz is wrong on that.  You don't deny that do you?
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Emmortal
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2013, 04:08:42 PM »

Got a link to this?

Google the stories, they aren't difficult to find.

There's also this very interesting Secret Service Report in 2010 on school shootings:

http://www.secretservice.gov/ntac/ssi_final_report.pdf

Quote
Despite prompt law enforcement responses, most shooting incidents were
stopped by means other than law enforcement intervention.

...

Most school-based attacks were stopped through intervention by school
administrators, educators and students-or by the attacker stopping on his own. In
about one-third of the incidents, the attacker was apprehended by or surrendered to
administrators, faculty, or school staff (27 percent, n=10) or to students (5 percent,
n=2).

...

Just over one-quarter of the incidents were stopped through law enforcement
intervention (27 percent, n=10). Law enforcement personnel discharged weapons in
only three of the incidents of targeted school violence studied (8 percent, n=3).
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Roger Bacon
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2013, 04:16:18 PM »

Why are police perfectly capable of using their firearms effectively but not civilians?  I don't understand the logic?


Locally, the Sheriff gives CCW classes.  These are citizens being trained by the Police. 


Huh
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2013, 04:20:12 PM »

Why are police perfectly capable of using their firearms effectively but not civilians?  I don't understand the logic?


Locally, the Sheriff gives CCW classes.  These are citizens being trained by the Police. 


Huh

The police aren't always perfectly effective at using their firearms, there have been numerous accounts of bystanders being hit by police officers firing their weapons.  There was one a few months back where I think 9 people were injured by police in a shootout (could be fuzzy on the exact number, maybe it was 5).
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Roger Bacon
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2013, 04:34:28 PM »

The police aren't always perfectly effective at using their firearms, there have been numerous accounts of bystanders being hit by police officers firing their weapons.  There was one a few months back where I think 9 people were injured by police in a shootout (could be fuzzy on the exact number, maybe it was 5).

Yeah, that's my point.

These fools are arguing that for whatever reason, Police (humans) are more capable than Civilians (humans).

I'm not understanding why?  In a lot of cases, private citizens are more concerned with training and practice than the police.
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tonymctones
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2013, 04:52:02 PM »

I read the story

it's not at all clear that the shooter was stopped by the "armed citizen" in any way at all
LMFAO part of your argument for magazine limits are that it makes it easier for citizens to take them down when they are reloading.

But you wouldnt want those citizens to have guns?

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Straw Man
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2013, 04:59:01 PM »

LMFAO part of your argument for magazine limits are that it makes it easier for citizens to take them down when they are reloading.

But you wouldnt want those citizens to have guns?

when did I say I didn't want citizens to have guns

why do you keep saying shit that I never said ?
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tonymctones
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2013, 04:59:55 PM »

when did I say I didn't want citizens to have guns

why do you keep saying shit that I never said ?
you said multiple times that you were ok with banning all guns but muskets...
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Straw Man
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2013, 05:03:37 PM »

you said multiple times that you were ok with banning all guns but muskets...

I said that in a conversation about the 2nd amendment and what should be allowed (since clearly we already have limitations)

I'm not for banning all guns but guess what.....if we banned everything except muskets you'd still be able to have GUNS

so still no one (not even me) is talking about banning guns

btw - if a musket is not enough to protect your family I'd suggest you stock up on hammers

according to some posters on this board they are more deadly than rifles
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tonymctones
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2013, 05:10:47 PM »

I said that in a conversation about the 2nd amendment and what should be allowed (since clearly we already have limitations)

I'm not for banning all guns but guess what.....if we banned everything except muskets you'd still be able to have GUNS

so still no one (not even me) is talking about banning guns

btw - if a musket is not enough to protect your family I'd suggest you stock up on hammers

according to some posters on this board they are more deadly than rifles
LOL plenty of ppl are talking about banning guns moron even if the majority are talking about banning only certain types of guns.

And yes brain child many ppl are talking about banning all guns.

The thread youre referring to wasnt about them being deadlier moron, it was about how more ppl are killed with them.
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Straw Man
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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2013, 05:13:18 PM »

LOL plenty of ppl are talking about banning guns moron even if the majority are talking about banning only certain types of guns.

And yes brain child many ppl are talking about banning all guns.

The thread youre referring to wasnt about them being deadlier moron, it was about how more ppl are killed with them.

so what

I'm not talking about banning all guns and there is zero popular support for it either so why it that the ONLY thing you guy focus on

why do you constantly take something and conflate it into a total ban

btw "brainchild" I should have known sarcasm would be lost on someone with such limited intelligence
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tonymctones
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« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2013, 05:15:25 PM »

so what

I'm not talking about banning all guns and there is zero popular support for it either so why it that the ONLY thing you guy focus on

why do you constantly take something and conflate it into a total ban

btw "brainchild" I should have known sarcasm would be lost on someone with such limited intelligence
he is trying to totally ban "assault weapons"!!!!

hahaha you made it perfectly clear that the stance you took wasnt being sarcastic dumb ass
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Straw Man
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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2013, 05:18:22 PM »

he is trying to totally ban "assault weapons"!!!!

hahaha you made it perfectly clear that the stance you took wasnt being sarcastic dumb ass


I'm fine if they can get an AWB

and news flash, just because you couldn't figure out I was being sarcastic about "stocking up on hammers" doesn't mean others couldn't figure it out

You need to learn that there are actually a lot of people in this world who are a LOT smarter than you and just because you can't figure out something doesn't mean that others can't figure it out
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tonymctones
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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2013, 05:25:55 PM »

I'm fine if they can get an AWB

and news flash, just because you couldn't figure out I was being sarcastic about "stocking up on hammers" doesn't mean others couldn't figure it out

You need to learn that there are actually a lot of people in this world who are a LOT smarter than you and just because you can't figure out something doesn't mean that others can't figure it out
LMFAO ahh thats the comment you meant, oh I understood your sarcasm on that its just that the point you were making with it wasnt correct.

Nobody ever said that hammers are more deadly than rifles only that they kill more ppl.
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Straw Man
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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2013, 05:27:57 PM »

LMFAO ahh thats the comment you meant, oh I understood your sarcasm on that its just that the point you were making with it wasnt correct.

Nobody ever said that hammers are more deadly than rifles only that they kill more ppl.


the entire hammer argument was fucking stupid from the beginning (and put forth by a stupid person)

hence the sarcasm

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Hugo Chavez
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« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2013, 05:34:20 PM »

I said that in a conversation about the 2nd amendment and what should be allowed (since clearly we already have limitations)

I'm not for banning all guns but guess what.....if we banned everything except muskets you'd still be able to have GUNS

so still no one (not even me) is talking about banning guns

btw - if a musket is not enough to protect your family I'd suggest you stock up on hammers

according to some posters on this board they are more deadly than rifles
Come on man... are you kidding?  You think we should be limited to muskets?  Even as a defense, it's an obsurd statement to make.  

How would this work if say 3 people invade a home.  One guy gets shot and the home owner says, "time out, give me a minute to reload"  Roll Eyes

and yes, you're talking about banning guns if all you think we should have are muskets lol...
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Straw Man
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« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2013, 05:39:54 PM »

Come on man... are you kidding?  You think we should be limited to muskets?  Even as a defense, it's an obsurd statement to make.  

How would this work if say 3 people invade a home.  One guy gets shot and the home owner says, "time out, give me a minute to reload"  Roll Eyes

and yes, you're talking about banning guns if all you think we should have are muskets lol...

not really, but I was making a point (on the thread about the 2nd amendment) about what was actually available to an individual at the time it was written

maybe we should only allow people to have guns in they are part of a "well regulated militia"

I'm a bit tired of any form of restriction/regulation/enforcement being conflated to "they want to ban all guns"

It's getting old
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tonymctones
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« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2013, 05:46:19 PM »

not really, but I was making a point (on the thread about the 2nd amendment) about what was actually available to an individual at the time it was written

maybe we should only allow people to have guns in they are part of a "well regulated militia"

I'm a bit tired of any form of restriction/regulation/enforcement being conflated to "they want to ban all guns"

It's getting old
one could also argue that as that was all the govt had at the time as well, thats what the framers meant.

If you take that stance then citizens should be allowed to have the same guns as the govt.
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tonymctones
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« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2013, 05:50:29 PM »

not really, but I was making a point (on the thread about the 2nd amendment) about what was actually available to an individual at the time it was written

maybe we should only allow people to have guns in they are part of a "well regulated militia"

I'm a bit tired of any form of restriction/regulation/enforcement being conflated to "they want to ban all guns"

It's getting old
Its almost as tiring as when a shooting happens and ppl think that more gun laws or banning types of guns will help stop or limit them.
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