Banning Guns in Australia just created huge illegal market

[tonymctones]

What a load of shit, the average rage filled teenager from your average family in this Country would find it next to impossible to source an Assault rifle, his next best option would be too thrown an infantile hissy fit and roll around on the ground.  You Americans live in constant denial, you have trouble picturing a society that has made it hard for those who want to commit mass shootings.  

In the 18 years before the gun law reforms in Australia, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, and in the 16 years after the GUN LAW REFORMS their have been ZERO mass shootings.

LOL right b/c teenagers have such a hard time finding other forms of illegal banned items...

grow the fuck up moron ppl do evil shit, you cannot legislate evil away you idiot.

you live in a fantasy world, where ppl want nothing but the best for each other and the govt always has your best interest in mind.

again dipshit guns arent the problem, the desire to kill innocent ppl is

[Radical Plato]

I live in Australia and nobody I know owns a gun and nobody cares about having guns either.
Guns are just an non issue here.

Same here, in 22 years in the workforce I have met one person who owned a gun, he was a sports shooter and hunted in his spare time, he was a sensible man and had grown up in a family that took responsible GUN Ownership very seriously.  Other than that, I know of nobody who owns a gun, people just never talk about guns.  I think because Americans are so insular and unaware of the rest of the world, they find it so hard to imagine a society were guns just aren't important in any way.  They seem to think worshipping guns and developing an obsessional fixation on them is NORMAL and they can't see the reason behind this is because they were indoctrinated with that mindset through the Culture and it's surroundings.

[tonymctones]

What a load of shit! I never said banning guns won't help.  An why would I pretend I am for saving lives, seems like a pretty normal thing for a normal human being to desire.  The problem isn't peoples desire to kill people, all types of regular sane people have a momentary murderous rage, I have heard all kinds of people in a fit of anger threaten someone else's life, once they have cooled, nobody seriously believes they were serious.  The fact is, anybody is capable of murdering someone else in a fit of RAGE, for a society to best reduce the likelihood of someone doing so, it is best to make sure they don't have easy access to weapons that can be use to efficiently carry out that task.  Soon the rage will have subsided and the murderous impulse gone away.

It is like a bodybuilder dieting for a show, having his fridge full of sugary high fat foods, this doesn't mean he will bust on his diet, but it sure doesn't help.  And if he does decide to bust, it won't be too hard for him!

you seem to have a misconception in thinking that majority of these incidents are impulse killings, they are not and b/c of that banning guns will not prevent these idiots from acting like idiots.

just like facts dont prevent you from acting like an idiot...

[Radical Plato]

LOL right b/c teenagers have such a hard time finding other forms of illegal banned items...

grow the fuck up moron ppl do evil shit, you cannot legislate evil away you idiot.

you live in a fantasy world, where ppl want nothing but the best for each other and the govt always has your best interest in mind.

again dipshit guns arent the problem, the desire to kill innocent ppl is

The desire to kill innocent people is NOT the problem, a large percentage of people would experience a murderous impulse or fantasy and NEVER ACT ON IT.  This was a big part of Sigmund Freuds discovery, is that humans have unconscious dangerous desires that if not kept in check could severely disrupt the running of a civilised society, this is why we have Governments in the first place.  You cannot legislate against what you call EVIL, but you sure as hell can make it hard for them to do maximum damage.  Using your logic, LAWS seem pointless, you may as well allow people to own any grade of weapon they like and let the chips fall where they may, every man for himself.

You live in a fantasy world, believing that somehow GUNS will protect you against every life threatening experience you encounter.  It appears that your desire to own a GUN is a psychological defence against your fear of dying!

[Radical Plato]

you seem to have a misconception in thinking that majority of these incidents are impulse killings, they are not and b/c of that banning guns will not prevent these idiots from acting like idiots.

just like facts dont prevent you from acting like an idiot...

Of course it will, If someone is intent on killing masses of people, they sure are going to struggle to achieve this with a kitchen knife.  You allow your bias and desire to own such weapons to over rule your common sense.  So if faced with being in a crowded public place and dealing with a crazed attacker with a automatic weapon, you actually prefer this option over a rage filled individual with a knife? 

[tonymctones]

The desire to kill innocent people is NOT the problem, a large percentage of people would experience a murderous impulse or fantasy and NEVER ACT ON IT.  This was a big part of Sigmund Freuds discovery, is that humans have unconscious dangerous desires that if not kept in check could severely disrupt the running of a civilised society, this is why we have Governments in the first place.  You cannot legislate against what you call EVIL, but you sure as hell can make it hard for them to do maximum damage.  Using your logic, LAWS seem pointless, you may as well allow people to own any grade of weapon they like and let the chips fall where they may, every man for himself.

You live in a fantasy world, believing that somehow GUNS will protect you against every life threatening experience you encounter.  It appears that your desire to own a GUN is a psychological defence against your fear of dying!

LOL no the majority of ppl do not experience the desire to actually kill someone. You know the majority of frueds shit has been done away with right?

and as you have already admitted the laws do not work as ppl still have easy access to guns. Seeing as the majority of these shootings are planned and not impulse related. Do you not think they would PLAN ON GETTING GUNS BEFORE GOING THROUGH WITH IT???

again youre an idiot who likes to play pretend psychologist when youre really simply projecting your own issues onto others.

[tonymctones]

Of course it will, If someone is intent on killing masses of people, they sure are going to struggle to achieve this with a kitchen knife.  You allow your bias and desire to own such weapons to over rule your common sense.  So if faced with being in a crowded public place and dealing with a crazed attacker with a automatic weapon, you actually prefer this option over a rage filled individual with a knife? 

again brainchild as the majority of these incidents ARE PLANNED, what makes you think they would use a knife instead of a gun?

IF THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO PLAN...AND THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO OBTAIN GUNS...which even you admit they do....WHICH ONE DO YOU THINK THEY WILL USE?

these arent simple impulse rage killings dumb ass, they are planned!!!

[Bad Boy Dazza]

What you guys have to realise is that as a culture Australians are fairly sheltered and sadly many are historically ignorant.

Australia does not have the benefit of having had wise and caring founding fathers who created a protective constitution - we were a prison colony for petty criminals *often the desperate starving poor -crimes like stealing bread would get you sent here as a prisoner*, so our heritage started under brutal subjugation.  

And for those who came here as free men, we simply fell under the law of the British Empire - when oppressed we never fought for and won our freedom (we did have one famous rebellion, but it was crushed).  We were used as cannon fodder in World War I by our British masters, such was their view of us.

But as a whole, life for the average Aussie is good, so we are compliant.  BUT the Australian people are waking up, and see the Australian govt as being led by false people with bad intentions.  WE are hurting financially.  Our elderly and frail cannot in many cases afford to feed themselves properly- some die in summer from heat because they cannot afford to run their electricity.  I believe change is coming in this nation, and people will try to create it - BUT if the govt tries to crush us, we have NO WAY OF DEFENDING ourselves, as YOU DID.  We have no equivalent dignity such as is granted in the US constitution.

[tonymctones]

What I find hillarious is that fact that E-Kunt basically wants to make America a "gun free zone" when we can plainly see that this is where these sociopaths like to carry out their plans.

[Radical Plato]

LOL no the majority of ppl do not experience the desire to actually kill someone. You know the majority of frueds shit has been done away with right?

and as you have already admitted the laws do not work as ppl still have easy access to guns. Seeing as the majority of these shootings are planned and not impulse related. Do you not think they would PLAN ON GETTING GUNS BEFORE GOING THROUGH WITH IT???

again youre an idiot who likes to play pretend psychologist when youre really simply projecting your own issues onto others.

You live in denial, I have heard many people in a fit of rage threaten to kill others, from young children to the elderly.  The fact is the desire to kill someone starts with the same HATRED you display for others who oppose your views.  If you were capable of honest inner reflection you would acknowledge your own murderous feelings towards others.  This is what makes people like you so scary, they are unaware of the very basics of their own psychology and inner workings.  And one day, when these unacknowledged and murderous impulse are triggered, they overwhelm the individual and all hell breaks loose.  No I don't think these things are highly PLANNED as you suggest, sometimes the shooter makes vague plans, but nothing that could be considered highly technical.  

Luke Woodham, killed two students and injured seven others at his high school. Before the shooting at Pearl High School began, Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned his mother to death in his home.  Two days before going on his rampage, he was working at his job at the local Pizzeria,  hardly the workings of someone who is planning to kill others in a couple of days time, they may have some vague plans, but nothing set in stone.  He was stopped by the assistant principal and while he was being pinned to the ground, in a bizarre twist, Woodham reminded the assistant principal that he had given him a discount on his pizza a few nights earlier.

Minutes before he started the shooting, Woodham had given the following message to a friend:

"I am not insane, I am angry. I killed because people like me are mistreated every day. I did this to show society, push us and we will push back. ... All throughout my life, I was ridiculed, always beaten, always hated. Can you, society, truly blame me for what I do? Yes, you will. ... It was not a cry for attention, it was not a cry for help. It was a scream in sheer agony saying that if you can't pry your eyes open, if I can't do it through pacifism, if I can't show you through the displaying of intelligence, then I will do it with a bullet"

[Radical Plato]

What I find hillarious is that fact that E-Kunt basically wants to make America a "gun free zone" when we can plainly see that this is where these sociopaths like to carry out their plans.

I couldn't care less about America, my fear is that Australia has adopted some of Americas ways, it's love of greed, it's materialism, it's declining concern about morality etc etc.  I know their is a small dormant gun Nutter contingency in this Country.  I would hate to see this special interest group rise the way it has in America, and hold the rest of society hostage with it's lies and propaganda.  My belief is that Americans will continue killing each other at an alarming rate, regardless of the laws, you can't legislate CRAZY, and the average American is pretty CRAZY, and yet what makes their craziness particularly frightening is because so many suffer from the same collective craziness, they see their CRAZINESS as NORMAL. 

[tonymctones]

You live in denial, I have heard many people in a fit of rage threaten to kill others, from young children to the elderly.  The fact is the desire to kill someone starts with the same HATRED you display for others who oppose your views.  If you were capable of honest inner reflection you would acknowledge your own murderous feelings towards others.  This is what makes people like you so scary, they are unaware of the very basics of their own psychology and inner workings.  And one day, when these unacknowledged and murderous impulse are triggered, they overwhelm the individual and all hell breaks loose.  No I don't think these things are highly PLANNED as you suggest, sometimes the shooter makes vague plans, but nothing that could be considered highly technical.  

Luke Woodham, killed two students and injured seven others at his high school. Before the shooting at Pearl High School began, Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned his mother to death in his home.  Two days before going on his rampage, he was working at his job at the local Pizzeria,  hardly the workings of someone who is planning to kill others in a couple of days time, they may have some vague plans, but nothing set in stone.  He was stopped by the assistant principal and while he was being pinned to the ground, in a bizarre twist, Woodham reminded the assistant principal that he had given him a discount on his pizza a few nights earlier.

Goodness gracious youre an idiot, yelling something in the heat of the moment is not the same as a desire to take another human life.

The story you cited is a perfect example brain child this idiot DROVE to the school. Sorry hoss that right there goes against your idea that given a little time they would cool off. This shows that this wasnt just an act of rage and impulse. This sick bastard drove there with the clear intention of killing ppl b/c he was angry.

Sorry dumb ass this wasnt an impulse killing this was something he clearly thought through and moved forward with his desire to kill.

NOTICE ALSO HOW HE PICKED YET ANOTHER "GUN FREE ZONE"... idiot

[tonymctones]

I couldn't care less about America, my fear is that Australia has adopted some of Americas ways, it's love of greed, it's materialism, it's declining concern about morality etc etc.  I know their is a small dormant gun Nutter contingency in this Country.  I would hate to see this special interest group rise the way it has in America, and hold the rest of society hostage with it's lies and propaganda.  My belief is that Americans will continue killing each other at an alarming rate, regardless of the laws, you can't legislate CRAZY, and the average American is pretty CRAZY, and yet what makes their craziness particularly frightening is because so many suffer from the same collective craziness, they see their CRAZINESS as NORMAL. 

blah blah blah, project project project...

LMFAO at your obsession

[Radical Plato]

Goodness gracious youre an idiot, yelling something in the heat of the moment is not the same as a desire to take another human life.

The story you cited is a perfect example brain child this idiot DROVE to the school. Sorry hoss that right there goes against your idea that given a little time they would cool off. This shows that this wasnt just an act of rage and impulse. This sick bastard drove there with the clear intention of killing ppl b/c he was angry.

Sorry dumb ass this wasnt an impulse killing this was something he clearly thought through and moved forward with his desire to kill.

NOTICE ALSO HOW HE PICKED YET ANOTHER "GUN FREE ZONE"... idiot

Gun Free Zone, I always lol at that, you say that without realising that the need to have a GUN FREE ZONE is an indication that your society has FAILED, it's the same with FREE SPEECH ZONES, pretty bizarre concept.  And in the same sentence you say it wasn't rage that motivated the latest shooter, but it's less potent relative Mr ANGER.   One of the surviving children testified that the SHOOTER was REALLY ANGRY.  Sounds like RAGE to me, depending on how long the individual has been bottling up their emotions, RAGE can last for quite a while.  It could take someone with such intense emotions quite a while to sort through them and move beyond their murderous fantasies, all the more reason to make guns harder to access.

[tonymctones]

Gun Free Zone, I always lol at that, you say that without realising that the need to have a GUN FREE ZONE is an indication that your society has FAILED, it's the same with FREE SPEECH ZONES, pretty bizarre concept.  And in the same sentence you say it wasn't rage that motivated the latest shooter, but it's less potent relative Mr ANGER.   One of the surviving children testified that the SHOOTER was REALLY ANGRY.  Sounds like RAGE to me, depending on how long the individual has been bottling up their emotions, RAGE can last for quite a while.  It could take someone with such intense emotions quite a while to sort through them and move beyond their murderous fantasies, all the more reason to make guns harder to access.

LOL youre whole idea is to make the entire country a "gun free zone" you brainiac!!!

I agree, its a stupid ass idea, whats funny is the irony that you dont seem to understand thats what youre arguing for...LMFAO

hahaha your assertion is that these are implusive shootings. Sorry moron if the guy has to load up the guns and drive to the place he is going to murder ppl at it isnt impulsive. Its thought out and planned even if it was a shitty plan.

The idiocy your spewing is just digging the hole youre in deeper and deeper.

[Radical Plato]

blah blah blah, project project project...

LMFAO at your obsession

You know what projection is, yet in the very next sentence you consider me obsessed, obsessed with what, common sense.  It is pretty obvious that you have an obsession with GUNS, me on the other hand, never think of them (unless debating with a NUTTER), don't desire to own one or use one and will spend the rest of my life like that.  My conflict is with SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS, what I would refer to as a group of like minded individuals who come together due to their common obsession.  They all use the same bully boy tactics and desperately attempt to enforce their beliefs on others when their special interest conflicts with the rest of society.  Most special Interest groups are benign and pose little threat to the rest of society.  Not so with special interest groups like the NRA.

[Bad Boy Dazza]

I couldn't care less about America, my fear is that Australia has adopted some of Americas ways, it's love of greed, it's materialism, it's declining concern about morality etc etc. 

The immorality you bemoan is coming from the same groups that want more gun control.  Drone bombings, mass abortions, sexual immorality etc etc

and the average American is pretty CRAZY, and yet what makes their craziness particularly frightening is because so many suffer from the same collective craziness, they see their CRAZINESS as NORMAL. 

Charming.  What an incredibly ignorant statement.

[Radical Plato]

LOL youre whole idea is to make the entire country a "gun free zone" you brainiac!!!

I agree, its a stupid ass idea, whats funny is the irony that you dont seem to understand thats what youre arguing for...LMFAO

hahaha your assertion is that these are implusive shootings. Sorry moron if the guy has to load up the guns and drive to the place he is going to murder ppl at it isnt impulsive. Its thought out and planned even if it was a shitty plan.

The idiocy your spewing is just digging the hole youre in deeper and deeper.

That's ridiculous, so if I am dieting and late one night I get an impulse to break the diet and eat ice cream, by driving to the store and following through on this impulse means the action didn't stem from that impulse but a well thought out plan to break the diet.  Interesting Theory.  Where do you think the plan comes from? the IMPULSE!  Now if I drive to the store and they are CLOSED, I then decide to drive 5 miles to the next store and discover they are also CLOSED.  The impulse to eat ice cream would be weakened by the difficulty to obtain such a creamy delicacy, if I continued on in this manner only to discover that none of the stores I visited were OPEN I would more than likely return home empty handed.  Now if i was really Intent on Ice Cream, sure I could commit a crime and break into the store and steal some Ice Cream, but that would have to be a pretty powerful initial impulse to behave in such a manner. 

By making something harder to do, the likelihood of it occurring is lessened.  The killing of masses of people in America is very easy to achieve.

[Mjolnir]

If you live by the sword (gun), you die by the sword(gun).  I think this is summing up the way American society is heading as a whole quite well.

[Bad Boy Dazza]

If yopu live by the sword (gun), you die by the sword(gun).  I think this is summing up the way American society is heading as a whole quite well.

I'm curious... can you name the nations that do not?

[Nomad]

Stopping a small percentage of gun violence is progress, I am sure the children who would have been murdered as a result of doing nothing about gun laws sure would be grateful.  So your solution is it is better to do nothing and have the Gun Violence remain the same than do something and begin to reduce the astronomical homicide rate.  Epic Sociopath.

The Boy and the Starfish

A man was walking along a deserted beach at sunset. As he walked he could see a young boy in the distance, as he drew nearer he noticed that the boy kept bending down, picking something up and throwing it into the water.
Time and again he kept hurling things into the ocean.

As the man approached even closer, he was able to see that the boy was picking up starfish that had been washed up on the beach and, one at a time he was throwing them back into the water.

The man asked the boy what he was doing, the boy replied,"I am throwing these washed up starfish back into the ocean, or else they will die through lack of oxygen. "But", said the man, "You can't possibly save them all, there are thousands on this beach, and this must be happening on hundreds of beaches along the coast. You can't possibly make a difference."
The boy looked down, frowning for a moment; then bent down to pick up another starfish, smiling as he threw it back into the sea. He replied,


"I made a huge difference to that one!"

You keep ignoring the hard facts and making less and less sense.

Semi automatic rifles account for a tiny minority of the murders in USA. Even when 30 round mags were still legal, semi auto rifles or famously yet stupidly mislabeled as "assault weapons" were used extremely rarely by the criminal element and mass shooters.

Assault weapons are not the weapons of choice among drug dealers, gang members or criminals in general. Assault weapons are used in about one-fifth of one percent (.20%) of all violent crimes and about one percent in gun crimes. It is estimated that from one to seven percent of all homicides are committed with assault weapons (rifles of any type are involved in three to four percent of all homicides). However a higher percentage are used in police homicides, roughly ten percent. (There has been no consistent trend in this rate from 1978 through 1996.) Between 1992 and 1996 less than 4% of mass murders, committed with guns, involved assault weapons. (Our deadliest mass murders have either involved arson or bombs.)

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcassaul.html

[tommywishbone]

So if we sell heroin at every sporting goods store in the USA, there will be less heroin on the streets?  I like that. Damn fine idea.

[Roger Bacon]

So if we sell heroin at every sporting goods store in the USA, there will be less heroin on the streets?  I like that. Damn fine idea.

Legalize drugs, tax them, sell them in drug stores and put drug dealers and cartels out of business.  Why not?

We can get drugs anytime we want, if I'm going to abuse them I will.


Putting an end to the illegal drug trade would save more lives than banning guns ever could.

[Radical Plato]

Legalize drugs, tax them, sell them in drug stores and put drug dealers and cartels out of business.  Why not?

We can get drugs anytime we want, if I'm going to abuse them I will.


Putting an end to the illegal drug trade would save more lives than banning guns ever could.

I agree about legalising drugs, especially when you consider what has happened in Mexico with the rise of violent Mexican drug cartels.  Their are 75 homicides a day in Mexico with the majority related to drug cartels.  Drug use is self harm and entering a school with a syringe full of heroin with the intent of mass murder is likely to fail. 

[Roger Bacon]

I agree about legalising drugs, especially when you consider what has happened in Mexico with the rise of violent Mexican drug cartels.  Their are 75 homicides a day in Mexico with the majority related to drug cartels.  Drug use is self harm and entering a school with a syringe full of heroin with the intent of mass murder is likely to fail.  

Can you at least admit that a country like Mexico is wrong for preventing its law abiding citizens from having firearms?  

There are thousands of murderers walking around Mexico completely immune to any kind of justice, and no end in sight. "Mexican officials say nearly 13,000 people were killed in violence blamed on organized crime between January and September last year."


Considering the fact that their gun ban isn't preventing any violence at all, why keep guns out of the hands of good people that only want to defend their family?