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Author Topic: Mother stops 3 Burglars w Pistol  (Read 1793 times)
MindSpin
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« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2013, 05:33:54 PM »

Sorry, these sounded like attempts at lectures to me.

And I'd argue that it's the "weapon of choice" for mass shooters... it's the "flavor of the month", and as I said earlier I think it has more to do with seeing them used as the primary weapons in movies and video games than it actually does with any tactical knowledge on the part of the assailants.

That first quote is me simply stating a fact.  The second quote is what my friend said.  I'm learning here.  Keep it coming.
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« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2013, 05:53:32 PM »

I don't have a firm stance on the issue, and I am attempting to hear all sides.  Honestly, if it were up to me, I would do away with all guns.  I have no fear that the government is coming to get me, and if they were, a few rifles and handguns wouldn't do shit.  That said, I understand that this country has a gun culture.  People like to hunt, collect guns, practice target shooting, etc.  Getting rid of all guns is never going to happen.  However, I never want to see little kids getting gunned down by mentally ill assholes that get their hands on guns.  So, I do support gun regulation, background checks and strict enforcement of current gun laws.  If it prevents just one school shooting, it's well worth it...
First youre completely and totally wrong in your stance that a population armed with guns couldnt defeat a better equipped and better armed opponent like a govt. We have more ex military citizens in the US than the US has soldiers. The us military has less than 1% of the population in its ranks.

Also there are plenty of incident where out armed populations have defeated larger better equiped opponents. Vietname, russian in WW2, Islamist vs. russia, egypt, syria.

How many dictators have fallen in the last few years?

your stance may seem logical on the surface but its just as assinine as thinking that if we ban guns ppl wont shoot each other anymore.

you say your against kids being killed like those against banning "assault weapons" arent Roll Eyes

Im not suprised you didnt answer my question on what happens when ppl start using shot guns and pistols for mass murder as you have no answer to it other than ban those too...

The answer is youre not addressing the problem, youre letting your emotions get the best of you. Stop look at the problem objectively, do you really think these sociopaths would try and kill ppl without guns?
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« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2013, 05:54:12 PM »

mindspin, how would you define "assault weapon"?
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« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2013, 06:03:59 PM »

First youre completely and totally wrong in your stance that a population armed with guns couldnt defeat a better equipped and better armed opponent like a govt. We have more ex military citizens in the US than the US has soldiers. The us military has less than 1% of the population in its ranks.

Also there are plenty of incident where out armed populations have defeated larger better equiped opponents. Vietname, russian in WW2, Islamist vs. russia, egypt, syria.

How many dictators have fallen in the last few years?

your stance may seem logical on the surface but its just as assinine as thinking that if we ban guns ppl wont shoot each other anymore.



Correct.

It's been discussed on here before as well that any form of armed/violent repression aimed at the population of he United States by the U.S. Federal Government would be a disaster.
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« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2013, 11:07:41 AM »

First youre completely and totally wrong in your stance that a population armed with guns couldnt defeat a better equipped and better armed opponent like a govt. We have more ex military citizens in the US than the US has soldiers. The us military has less than 1% of the population in its ranks.

Also there are plenty of incident where out armed populations have defeated larger better equiped opponents. Vietname, russian in WW2, Islamist vs. russia, egypt, syria.

How many dictators have fallen in the last few years?

your stance may seem logical on the surface but its just as assinine as thinking that if we ban guns ppl wont shoot each other anymore.

you say your against kids being killed like those against banning "assault weapons" arent Roll Eyes

Im not suprised you didnt answer my question on what happens when ppl start using shot guns and pistols for mass murder as you have no answer to it other than ban those too...

The answer is youre not addressing the problem, youre letting your emotions get the best of you. Stop look at the problem objectively, do you really think these sociopaths would try and kill ppl without guns?

You are right that there are countless examples of large and powerful armies that were brought down by smaller and supposedly inferior opponents or "revolutionaries". But, you've made several critically erroneous assumptions.  #1 - The majority of the US population is for gun control. The numbers would not be on your side.  #2 - you assume that to enforce gun control, the government would declare war on its citizens or start some sort of conflict.  In reality, laws would be passed and anyone who breaks them would simply be thrown in jail.  #3 - you assume that if the gov tried to enforce gun laws and this somehow erupted into a civil war, that armed citizens would prevail.  I highly doubt that this issue is big enough to result in a civil war.  However, if some sort of civil war actually broke out, it would not turnout much different from the first one, except that this time, the gov is much more well armed.

As for answering your question on what happens if people start using other guns for mass murders, it's a silly argument.  That's like saying we should legalize drunk driving because people do it anyway.  We make drunk driving illegal because it reduces drunk driving related deaths/accidents.  The same should go for guns.  Yes, motivated psychos will find a way to get their hands on whatever guns make it easier for them to mow people down.  But, we shouldn't make it easy for them.  

Let me ask you this: why have none of the recent mass murderers used a M16A2 Rifle or some other fully automatic weapon?
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« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2013, 11:08:46 AM »

mindspin, how would you define "assault weapon"?

Aren't all guns "assault" weapons?
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« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2013, 11:38:27 AM »

You are right that there are countless examples of large and powerful armies that were brought down by smaller and supposedly inferior opponents or "revolutionaries". But, you've made several critically erroneous assumptions.  #1 - The majority of the US population is for gun control. The numbers would not be on your side.  #2 - you assume that to enforce gun control, the government would declare war on its citizens or start some sort of conflict.  In reality, laws would be passed and anyone who breaks them would simply be thrown in jail.  #3 - you assume that if the gov tried to enforce gun laws and this somehow erupted into a civil war, that armed citizens would prevail.  I highly doubt that this issue is big enough to result in a civil war.  However, if some sort of civil war actually broke out, it would not turnout much different from the first one, except that this time, the gov is much more well armed.

As for answering your question on what happens if people start using other guns for mass murders, it's a silly argument.  That's like saying we should legalize drunk driving because people do it anyway.  We make drunk driving illegal because it reduces drunk driving related deaths/accidents.  The same should go for guns.  Yes, motivated psychos will find a way to get their hands on whatever guns make it easier for them to mow people down.  But, we shouldn't make it easy for them. 

Let me ask you this: why have none of the recent mass murderers used a M16A2 Rifle or some other fully automatic weapon?
Holy balls son the amount of idiocy and ignorance in this post rivals a tbombz post.

First I never Said anything about the govt starting a war to take guns away. If the they did become violent towards it citizens though do you really think ppl would be ok with it? Don't be a dumb ass. Public opinion doesn't drives or legislation if it did we wouldn't be stuck with obamacare. I'm not going to address the rest of the idiocy in your first paragraph as its irrelevant to the issue.

We've done exactly what you suggested in your analogy with drunk driving. We have laws banning murder and you know it's illegal to carry a gun in a school zone right?

You wanting to ban guns is like wanting to ban alcohol, why aren't you pissing and moaning about that?


As for last question luckily for us it's bc they are idiots and don't know the law much like yourself. Everyone who has the right to own a gun has the right to own fully automatic weapons it just takes a few steps. I have a trust set up that allows me to own them as well as other class 3 weapons.

Seeing as those weapons are out there and are available, why do you think they aren't being used?

PS These guys are probably doing a lot more damage with semi automatics than fully automatics. You know how fast a 30 round magazine goes in a fully automatic? You know how hard it is to keep a fully automatic on target? It's much more effective to aim and take or shots with a semi automatic than spray a room with a fully automatic which by the way is only possible if you're not being shot back at....

You watched too many Hollywood movies and obviously have very little I any interactions with the objects you're demonizing.


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« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2013, 12:04:04 PM »

if you wanna kill some people, and your set on doing it. your gonna do it whether you have a gun, a knife, a car, or some poison. whatevers clever.

that being said, the love of guns in this country is sickening.
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« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2013, 12:13:01 PM »

Holy balls son the amount of idiocy and ignorance in this post rivals a tbombz post.

First I never Said anything about the govt starting a war to take guns away. If the they did become violent towards it citizens though do you really think ppl would be ok with it? Don't be a dumb ass. Public opinion doesn't drives or legislation if it did we wouldn't be stuck with obamacare. I'm not going to address the rest of the idiocy in your first paragraph as its irrelevant to the issue.

We've done exactly what you suggested in your analogy with drunk driving. We have laws banning murder and you know it's illegal to carry a gun in a school zone right?

You wanting to ban guns is like wanting to ban alcohol, why aren't you pissing and moaning about that?


As for last question luckily for us it's bc they are idiots and don't know the law much like yourself. Everyone who has the right to own a gun has the right to own fully automatic weapons it just takes a few steps. I have a trust set up that allows me to own them as well as other class 3 weapons.

Seeing as those weapons are out there and are available, why do you think they aren't being used?

PS These guys are probably doing a lot more damage with semi automatics than fully automatics. You know how fast a 30 round magazine goes in a fully automatic? You know how hard it is to keep a fully automatic on target? It's much more effective to aim and take or shots with a semi automatic than spray a room with a fully automatic which by the way is only possible if you're not being shot back at....

You watched too many Hollywood movies and obviously have very little I any interactions with the objects you're demonizing.




I'm going to go easy on you because I like your avatar.  If/when stricter gun laws are passed, no one is going to do shit about it.  How do I know?  Because Obama signed the NDAA into law (supported by Romney BTW) and no one did shit about it.  The NDAA shits all over the constitution and does a lot more than take guns away.  If he got that through, and no one did squat, there is no limit to what can be put through.

The reason why most of these wackjobs aren't using more powerful machine guns, is that they are harder to get.  Yes, I am aware of the various loopholes that exist that allow people to have pretty much any type of gun, but making them illegal to manufacture and distribute will make it harder for them to get into the hands of the wrong people.  Your right to arm yourself is second to the right of little kids to be able to go to school without getting gunned down.  If stricter gun laws reduce these senseless killings, we should all be in favor of them.  
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« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2013, 12:14:59 PM »

if you wanna kill some people, and your set on doing it. your gonna do it whether you have a gun, a knife, a car, or some poison. whatevers clever.

that being said, the love of guns in this country is sickening.

I agree with you completely.  But, it's a lot harder to mow down a crow of people with a knife than it is to do it with a gun :-/
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« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2013, 12:30:46 PM »

I'm going to go easy on you because I like your avatar.  If/when stricter gun laws are passed, no one is going to do shit about it.  How do I know?  Because Obama signed the NDAA into law (supported by Romney BTW) and no one did shit about it.  The NDAA shits all over the constitution and does a lot more than take guns away.  If he got that through, and no one did squat, there is no limit to what can be put through.

The reason why most of these wackjobs aren't using more powerful machine guns, is that they are harder to get.  Yes, I am aware of the various loopholes that exist that allow people to have pretty much any type of gun, but making them illegal to manufacture and distribute will make it harder for them to get into the hands of the wrong people.  Your right to arm yourself is second to the right of little kids to be able to go to school without getting gunned down.  If stricter gun laws reduce these senseless killings, we should all be in favor of them. 
Haha thank you sir, you know that's Jennifer Aniston right? And I'm going easy on you bc I've been around here long enough to know you're a good dude just incredibly misinformed and letting your emotions get in the way on this issue.

Sorry bro, I agree that what the past presidents have done to erode away our freedoms is complete shit and I also agree that uninformed morons that are the vast majority of the general public aren't concerned. This however doesn't mean they would turn a blind eye to the govt killing innocent civilians in mass. It really is just a stupid argument that you're making.

As for te second part l point you back to my previous points on not addressing the issue that is the problem. Taking away guns won't stop this it wouldn't even slow it to be honest. The two largest mass murders in our history weren't done with guns. Banning guns and high capsid has not only been proven not to work in other countries around he world but right here in the US.

You know that you have like .001% chance as a person in the is to be killed by a gun? That's not even kids at school. The very very very small % of deaths in this country to kid by guns is really enough for you to say lets ban all guns?

You see why you're bein labeled as emotional?

You're not thinking rationally
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« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2013, 01:31:50 PM »

I see you keep narrowing it down until you get the answer you're looking for. Recently it has been AR-15 style weapons. Happy now?
yup. point made.
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« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2013, 01:41:36 PM »

Haha thank you sir, you know that's Jennifer Aniston right? And I'm going easy on you bc I've been around here long enough to know you're a good dude just incredibly misinformed and letting your emotions get in the way on this issue.

Sorry bro, I agree that what the past presidents have done to erode away our freedoms is complete shit and I also agree that uninformed morons that are the vast majority of the general public aren't concerned. This however doesn't mean they would turn a blind eye to the govt killing innocent civilians in mass. It really is just a stupid argument that you're making.

As for te second part l point you back to my previous points on not addressing the issue that is the problem. Taking away guns won't stop this it wouldn't even slow it to be honest. The two largest mass murders in our history weren't done with guns. Banning guns and high capsid has not only been proven not to work in other countries around he world but right here in the US.

You know that you have like .001% chance as a person in the is to be killed by a gun? That's not even kids at school. The very very very small % of deaths in this country to kid by guns is really enough for you to say lets ban all guns?

You see why you're bein labeled as emotional?

You're not thinking rationally

I really don't see the government turning on civilians.  However, if stricter gun laws are passed and someone disobeys them, they're going to jail.  If they put up a fight, they'll end up like David Koresh and the Branch Davidians.

As for your stat of the high unlikelihood of being killed by a gun, I have some other stats for you: In the US, more teen-age boys die from gunshots than from all natural causes combined.  Here's another - Excluding natural causes of death such as heart attacks and cancer, death by gunfire was the second-leading cause of death in the US between 2,000 & 2009; only automobile accidents killed more people.
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« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2013, 01:59:00 PM »

I really don't see the government turning on civilians.  However, if stricter gun laws are passed and someone disobeys them, they're going to jail.  If they put up a fight, they'll end up like David Koresh and the Branch Davidians.

As for your stat of the high unlikelihood of being killed by a gun, I have some other stats for you: In the US, more teen-age boys die from gunshots than from all natural causes combined.  Here's another - Excluding natural causes of death such as heart attacks and cancer, death by gunfire was the second-leading cause of death in the US between 2,000 & 2009; only automobile accidents killed more people.

Murdered in 2 horribly botched raids by governments agencies based on shaky evidence?
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« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2013, 02:29:43 PM »

I really don't see the government turning on civilians.  However, if stricter gun laws are passed and someone disobeys them, they're going to jail.  If they put up a fight, they'll end up like David Koresh and the Branch Davidians.

As for your stat of the high unlikelihood of being killed by a gun, I have some other stats for you: In the US, more teen-age boys die from gunshots than from all natural causes combined.  Here's another - Excluding natural causes of death such as heart attacks and cancer, death by gunfire was the second-leading cause of death in the US between 2,000 & 2009; only automobile accidents killed more people.
You keep bringing up the govt trying to take guns and ppl resisting as the govt turning against it citizens. Do you honesty think te got has your best interests in mind?

The reason for the 2nd ammendment is self defense including the ultimate check against govt oppression this govt and others. I simply do not understand this mentality that one its hopeless to fight against the govt so lets just give up and two that you think addressing the tool which ppl use will some how help lower or even solve the problem.

As for your numbers so you want to compare an at risk group due to their own behavior and the same groups health record. Obviously the mortality rate in that age group is low making your claim look impressive when its really not. What's the death rate for that same age group by guns per 100,000 ppl?

You do know that almost half of the gun deaths in the US are suicides right? You're really going to try and lump those in when comparing them to other forms of death?

Compare apples to apples mindspin don't cite stats just bc they make your argument look good bc sooner or later you will run into someone who knows their shit and they will make you look foolish...
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« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2013, 02:36:40 PM »

Goodness gracious auto correct blows
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« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2013, 05:16:12 PM »

Goodness gracious auto correct blows

lol...I do all my posting on my iPhone.  It's a miracle my grammar doesn't look worse. 

In any case, I won't get into a stats debate with you.  I do enough of that at work all day. As Mark Twain once said, there's Lies, damned lies, and statistics. 

No...the government does not have my best interest in mind.  But, I'm also not a dooms-day-prepper.  I have no fear that the big bad government is coming to get me.  And, if things ever got unbearable in this country, I would move before joining some sort of revolt.

The bottom line for me, is that I grew up in a country where you absofuckinglutely need a gun to be safe.  In fact, I didn't go anywhere without two armed body guards.  However, in the 30 years I have lived in the US, I've never once needed a gun.  On the contrary, I have been in many situations where if I did have a gun, nothing good would have come from it.  Unless you're living in some gang infested cesspool, no one needs a gun in the US. 
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« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2013, 06:31:40 PM »

lol...I do all my posting on my iPhone.  It's a miracle my grammar doesn't look worse. 

In any case, I won't get into a stats debate with you.  I do enough of that at work all day. As Mark Twain once said, there's Lies, damned lies, and statistics. 

No...the government does not have my best interest in mind.  But, I'm also not a dooms-day-prepper.  I have no fear that the big bad government is coming to get me.  And, if things ever got unbearable in this country, I would move before joining some sort of revolt.

The bottom line for me, is that I grew up in a country where you absofuckinglutely need a gun to be safe.  In fact, I didn't go anywhere without two armed body guards.  However, in the 30 years I have lived in the US, I've never once needed a gun.  On the contrary, I have been in many situations where if I did have a gun, nothing good would have come from it.  Unless you're living in some gang infested cesspool, no one needs a gun in the US. 
many many ppl who have used guns to defend themselves would disagree with you mindspin. I am also no dooms day prepper but I understand the need to be able to defend myself, my family and my property. I also understand that a gun is a tool, an inanimate object that is neither inately good or evil but does what the person who is holding wants it to do.

There are plenty of reasons for guns, if you dont see them you dont need to own one plain and fucking simple...Do not though try to dictate to others whether or not they need them...
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« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2013, 10:22:06 AM »

many many ppl who have used guns to defend themselves would disagree with you mindspin. I am also no dooms day prepper but I understand the need to be able to defend myself, my family and my property. I also understand that a gun is a tool, an inanimate object that is neither inately good or evil but does what the person who is holding wants it to do.

There are plenty of reasons for guns, if you dont see them you dont need to own one plain and fucking simple...Do not though try to dictate to others whether or not they need them...

You're talking to a guy that is all about personal freedoms as long as they don't negatively affect me.  I support gay marriage, legalization of marijuana, I'm pro choice, etc.  I am also against NDAA, big government, obnoxious taxes, etc.  But this gun thing does affect me.  I'd like to have peace of mind knowing that my kids are safe when they're at school.  It's a big part of the reason why we live in the US and not elsewhere.  Unfortunately, with the gun culture we have today, and the easy access to military style weapons, that is no longer the case. 

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« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2013, 10:36:33 AM »

You're talking to a guy that is all about personal freedoms as long as they don't negatively affect me.  I support gay marriage, legalization of marijuana, I'm pro choice, etc.  I am also against NDAA, big government, obnoxious taxes, etc.  But this gun thing does affect me.  I'd like to have peace of mind knowing that my kids are safe when they're at school.  It's a big part of the reason why we live in the US and not elsewhere.  Unfortunately, with the gun culture we have today, and the easy access to military style weapons, that is no longer the case. 


Your kids are in more danger from drunk drivers than they have ever been from guns. It's not even fucking close, why aren't you yelling about banning alcohol?

You're kids are much more likely to drown than be shot, why are you yelling about banning pools?

Fact is banning guns doesn't help the situation in this country.

What is a military style weapon mindspin?

Your letting your emotions lead the way, we all want children to be safe from guns but banning them will simply have the opposite effect. AGAIN schools are already gun free zones, and that's why they are being targeted. These ppl know they won't meet much of a fight there. How is making the entire country a gun free zone going to help?
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« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2013, 11:35:33 AM »

Your kids are in more danger from drunk drivers than they have ever been from guns. It's not even fucking close, why aren't you yelling about banning alcohol?

You're kids are much more likely to drown than be shot, why are you yelling about banning pools?

Fact is banning guns doesn't help the situation in this country.

What is a military style weapon mindspin?

Your letting your emotions lead the way, we all want children to be safe from guns but banning them will simply have the opposite effect. AGAIN schools are already gun free zones, and that's why they are being targeted. These ppl know they won't meet much of a fight there. How is making the entire country a gun free zone going to help?

There are already laws against drunk driving, huge penalties for DUIs and massive anti driving & drinking campaigns.  This has drastically reduced drink driving related deaths.  You're right.  Too many kids drown.  So what have I done about that?  Both of my girls have been swimming competitively since they were 4.  They are now championship swimmers. I can't guarantee that they'll never drown, but I've done everything I can to reduce the chances. 

The rate of these shootings is increasing.  Gun sales are going through the roof.  More mentally unstable people today than ever.  I'm not going to just stand by and do nothing.  If stricter gun laws prevents just one school shooting, then it's well worth it.

What is a military style weapon?  Who the fuck knows.  I'm not going to play semantics.  All guns that allow someone to efficiently mow down a crowd of people should be banned, wether or not they look scary & whether or not they are rifles or hand guns. 

And yes, my emotions play a part in this.  If it weren't for the emotional side of this, there would be no discussion.  If we simply look at this in a logical and unemotional way, we could simply say "Oh well...30 less kids.  We're overpopulated anyway so we're now better off".  But, because little lives were cut short and because we empathize with the pain of the parents, we don't just dismissed it change the channel and move on. 

It appears that some people care more about their right to own a firearm than saving young lives...I'm not one of them Smiley
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« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2013, 11:40:56 AM »

To much idiocy to respond to by phone Wink

Will respond later...
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« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2013, 12:01:49 PM »

To much idiocy to respond to by phone Wink

Will respond later...

no need for longwinded responses.  It all comes down to wether or not restricting certain types of guns reduces the chances for mass shootings and wether or not it's worthwhile "infringing" on the right for someone to own any kind of gun they want.

I do believe that restricting certain types of guns will reduce these mass shootings and that more than justifies limiting gun ownership rights.  You (and many others) disagree...   
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« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2013, 12:05:13 PM »

 Grin


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« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2013, 12:45:55 PM »

no need for longwinded responses.  It all comes down to wether or not restricting certain types of guns reduces the chances for mass shootings and wether or not it's worthwhile "infringing" on the right for someone to own any kind of gun they want.

I do believe that restricting certain types of guns will reduce these mass shootings and that more than justifies limiting gun ownership rights.  You (and many others) disagree...   
Except you're wrong sir, we've had an assault weapons ban and during that time columbine happened. Other countries around the world have also shown that gun control isn't the answer.

You say we have laws to help prohibit drunk driving so we don't need to ban alcohol. WELL WE HAVE LAWS THAT PROHIBIT SHOOTING OTHER PPL TOO!!! Why do we need to ban guns?

You're much more likely to be killed by a drunk driver than murdered by a gun...

It's clear you're thinking emotionally bc a rational person understands that guns aren't the problem and that creating a bigger gun free zone won't work as its been proven not to work in schools.
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