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Author Topic: Obama BLAMING others now that more families priced out of health insurance  (Read 1371 times)
James
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« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2013, 09:14:46 AM »

It is a well-known fact that nobody in Congress ever reads, or even skims, any law, and especially not the fine print, it passes until long after it has been enacted into law. It appears the same is just as true for the biggest pillar of support for the Obama administration: America's labor unions, whose liberal vote every election is instrumental to preserving the outflow side of America's welfare state. As it turns out, it was the same labor unions who enthusiastically supported the primary accomplishment of the Obama administration in the past 4 years, Obamacare, only to realize, long after it has become reality that, surprise, their healthcare plan costs are about to go up. And, as the WSJ colorfully summarizes, they are now "turning sour."

From WSJ:

Union leaders say many of the law's requirements will drive up the costs for their health-care plans and make unionized workers less competitive. Among other things, the law eliminates the caps on medical benefits and prescription drugs used as cost-containment measures in many health-care plans. It also allows children to stay on their parents' plans until they turn 26.
So what are the Unions' demands to offset what they only now realize will push their overall costs higher? What else: Moar!

To offset that, the nation's largest labor groups want their lower-paid members to be able to get federal insurance subsidies while remaining on their plans. In the law, these subsidies were designed only for low-income workers without employer coverage as a way to help them buy private insurance.
 
Top officers at the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, the AFL-CIO and other large labor groups plan to keep pressing the Obama administration to expand the federal subsidies to these jointly run plans, warning that unionized employers may otherwise drop coverage.
But, but, they can't - that's the whole point, or didn't they read that part too? Doesn't matter - to them it is now unfair, nay "unacceptable":

"We are going back to the administration to say that this is not acceptable," said Ken Hall, general secretary-treasurer for the Teamsters, which has 1.6 million members and dependents in health-care plans. Other unions involved in the push include the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union and Unite Here, which represents service and other workers.
So now that even the unions have understood that Obamacare is one big tax, maybe it is time to reevaluate its arrival at a time when the already strapped US consumer sees taxes rising, and has their savings extinguished.

Employers and consumers across the country will see big changes under the health law, which goes into full effect next year. Insurers will no longer be able to deny coverage to people with pre-existing conditions. Most individuals will be taxed if they don't carry insurance, and employers with at least 50 workers will face a fine if they don't provide it. About 30 million Americans are expected to gain insurance under the law.
 
John Wilhelm, chairman of Unite Here Health, the insurance plan for 260,000 union workers at places including hotels, casinos and airports, recalls standing next to Barack Obama at a rally in Nevada when he was a 2008 presidential candidate.
 
"I heard him say, 'If you like your health plan, you can keep it,' " Mr. Wilhelm recalled. Mr. Wilhelm said he expects the administration will craft a solution so that employer health-care plans won't be hurt. "If I'm wrong, and the president does not intend to keep his word, I would have severe second thoughts about the law."
Wait, no, you mean that in order to get your vote a career politician... lied? Say it isn't true.

So what is an administration that has pandered to every demand for welfare increases ever, to do?

For the Obama administration, holding firm against union demands for subsidies risks alienating a key ally. Giving unions a break, however, would not only increase the cost of the law but likely open the door to nonunion employers in a similar situation who would demand the same perk.
 
Obama administration officials declined to answer questions about whether union-employer plans could qualify for subsidies under the law. A spokesman for the Treasury Department, which will administer the subsidies as tax credits, said: "These matters are the subject of pending regulations. We will continue to work with employers, workers, consumers and businesses to implement the health-care law."
 
Under the health law, households earning up to 400% of the poverty level—$92,200 for a family of four last year—will be eligible for tax credits to offset the cost of private insurance. The less a household earns the more generous the subsidy.
And while the political wranging is about to get heated, Unions suddenly find themselves facing a very existential problem:

The Sheet Metal Workers International Association helped push for passage of the health law. Mr. Beall said he still believes everyone should have health insurance, but worries the law is undermining the union's ability to offer coverage.
 
"If we're not offering our members insurance and pension, why would you want to be union?" he asked.
 
The International Union of Operating Engineers Local 150 of Countryside, Ill., which represents construction workers and insures about 65,000 people, is also examining whether some lower-earning workers would eventually be better off leaving the union-sponsored plan and instead getting federally subsidized insurance.
 
"I've told my members, as this evolves, your health care will not look like it does today," said James Sweeney, president and business manager of the local. "I have to cut it back."
What is most disturbing is that even the unions are starting to understand that there is really no such thing as a free lunch:

Central Blacktop Co., a Hodgkins, Ill., road builder that employs members of operating engineers Local 150, provides health benefits by paying $13.45 per hour that each member works, said Joseph Benson, the company's chief financial officer. That averages nearly $19,000 a year per worker.
 
"Ultimately any increase in expense to the fund is going to come from us down the line," he said.
It will, but not today. Today, the agenda is to just get more.

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You and others have been on here for 3 years now discussing the negative end results that Obama-care would have, but many wouldn't listen.
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Soul Crusher
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« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2013, 09:46:10 AM »

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323374504578217720567917856.html#articleTabs%3Dcomments


Basically every promise O-SHIT made was a lie 
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dario73
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« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2013, 09:57:36 AM »

tell me what penalty you think I will be paying next year

HAHAHAAHAHAH!!!

You are going to pay for it next year.

Another BLIND AS A BAT OBAMA SUPPORTER!!!!

This is why this country is in trouble. People like this, who are so misinformed but yet get to cast a ballot and then dare to pontificate on the "virtues" of the Democratic Party and the clowninchief.
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James
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« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2013, 10:21:17 AM »

HAHAHAAHAHAH!!!

You are going to pay for it next year.

Another BLIND AS A BAT OBAMA SUPPORTER!!!!

This is why this country is in trouble. People like this, who are so misinformed but yet get to cast a ballot and then dare to pontificate on the "virtues" of the Democratic Party and the clowninchief.

Straw has been defending Obama Care on here for almost 3 years, then he ends up dropping an Obama-care approved Health Plan because of rates and takes out a high deducible HSA which is not Obamacare approved, and in the end he will either have to pay the penalty/tax that is part of the Bill he has been defending, or drop the HSA Plan and go back to the more expensive one, which will be even more expensive than it was prior to him dropping it because of the the guaranteed issue that takes place in 2014.
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bigbobs
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« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2013, 10:42:02 AM »

U.S. Healthcare is a mess.  I was talking to a friend of mine who is a MD, graduated from med school in Canada and gave it a shot to work in Texas for a few years from 2009 to 2012.  He came back to practice in Canada.  I asked why?  In a nutshell he felt it was too unethical to practice medicine in the U.S.  Doctors foremost put their income over their patient's interests.  He had several examples of patients who died simply because they could not afford proper treatment, and in some cases doctors lie and tell them that there are no procedures that can be done to help you, just because they know that the patient can not afford to pay the fees needed to actually treat them and save their life.  Despite making a lot more money in the US he returned to Canada to practice here and said it allows him to sleep better at night.  
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James
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« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2013, 10:49:24 AM »

U.S. Healthcare is a mess.  I was talking to a friend of mine who is a MD, graduated from med school in Canada and gave it a shot to work in Texas for a few years from 2009 to 2012.  He came back to practice in Canada.  I asked why?  In a nutshell he felt it was too unethical to practice medicine in the U.S.  Doctors foremost put their income over their patient's interests.  He had several examples of patients who died simply because they could not afford proper treatment, and in some cases doctors lie and tell them that there are no procedures that can be done to help you, just because they know that the patient can not afford to pay the fees needed to actually treat them and save their life.  Despite making a lot more money in the US he returned to Canada to practice here and said it allows him to sleep better at night.  


The Canadian Patients’ Remedy for Health Care: Go to America!

One common assertion among the left is that other industrialized nations, such as Canada, achieved great success in health care within their collectivist framework. This, then, begs the question: why is the head of an east coast Canadian province coming to the United States for medical treatment?

Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams is seeking heart surgery in the United States, drawing criticism from “local bloggers and people calling in to the province’s immensely popular open-line radio shows.” Yet his actions are hardly unusual for world leaders. Saudi Arabian King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz is known to have his checkups at the prestigious Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn. Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi had heart surgery at the Cleveland Clinic in 2006 . Even middle-class Canadians are utilizing their proximity to the United States to seek treatment here.
http://blog.heritage.org/2010/02/09/the-canadian-patients%E2%80%99-remedy-for-health-care-go-to-america/
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Jack T. Cross
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« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2013, 11:20:25 AM »

U.S. Healthcare is a mess.  I was talking to a friend of mine who is a MD, graduated from med school in Canada and gave it a shot to work in Texas for a few years from 2009 to 2012.  He came back to practice in Canada.  I asked why?  In a nutshell he felt it was too unethical to practice medicine in the U.S.  Doctors foremost put their income over their patient's interests.  He had several examples of patients who died simply because they could not afford proper treatment, and in some cases doctors lie and tell them that there are no procedures that can be done to help you, just because they know that the patient can not afford to pay the fees needed to actually treat them and save their life.  Despite making a lot more money in the US he returned to Canada to practice here and said it allows him to sleep better at night.  

This has been my experience with American doctors, too.
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bigbobs
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« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2013, 11:25:50 AM »


The Canadian Patients’ Remedy for Health Care: Go to America!

One common assertion among the left is that other industrialized nations, such as Canada, achieved great success in health care within their collectivist framework. This, then, begs the question: why is the head of an east coast Canadian province coming to the United States for medical treatment?

Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams is seeking heart surgery in the United States, drawing criticism from “local bloggers and people calling in to the province’s immensely popular open-line radio shows.” Yet his actions are hardly unusual for world leaders. Saudi Arabian King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz is known to have his checkups at the prestigious Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn. Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi had heart surgery at the Cleveland Clinic in 2006 . Even middle-class Canadians are utilizing their proximity to the United States to seek treatment here.
http://blog.heritage.org/2010/02/09/the-canadian-patients%E2%80%99-remedy-for-health-care-go-to-america/

So give a few more prompt service for non-life threatening issues over saving the lives of many, even if it means lying to them that there is nothing that can save them.  Like I said, my doctor friend who has worked under both systems strongly prefers Canada's even though he was earning much more in the US and the weather was much nicer.  Perhaps if he didn't have a conscience he would prefer the US system Wink
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Jack T. Cross
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« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2013, 11:27:46 AM »


One common assertion among the left is that other industrialized nations, such as Canada, achieved great success in health care within their collectivist framework. This, then, begs the question: why is the head of an east coast Canadian province coming to the United States for medical treatment?

Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams is seeking heart surgery in the United States, drawing criticism from “local bloggers and people calling in to the province’s immensely popular open-line radio shows.” Yet his actions are hardly unusual for world leaders. Saudi Arabian King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz is known to have his checkups at the prestigious Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn. Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi had heart surgery at the Cleveland Clinic in 2006 . Even middle-class Canadians are utilizing their proximity to the United States to seek treatment here.
http://blog.heritage.org/2010/02/09/the-canadian-patients%E2%80%99-remedy-for-health-care-go-to-america/

Not sure why this would be worth mentioning.  It shouldn't be surprising that a wealthy person would choose to use the U.S. for medical treatment.  Our problem is with access, definitely not with skill and ability.
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Roger Bacon
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« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2013, 11:53:22 AM »

Next year all health insurance will be guaranteed Issue for adults (children are already), large rate increases will follow, the rich will pay the high rates, the poor will get it via the expansion of Medicaid and State Exchanges, but many in the middle will get hurt with not being able to afford it and having to pay the penalty/tax for either not having any Health Insurance at all, or for having one that does not meet the minimum requirements.  Also some people that currently have group health insurance via full time employee status (or thought they would get group health insurance via full time employment) will be cut back to part time, as some employers will not be able to afford the high cost to provide health Insurance that they must provide to full time employees via the new law requirement, So not only will they not have Health coverage, but will have a reduction in income via the decrease in working hours, plus don't forget most Companies don't offer vacation time and other benefits to part time workers.


"Adjunct English professor Clint Benjamin, who has been teaching at the college for six years, pays out-of-pocket for catastrophic health care coverage only and had vague hopes of improved insurance under the Affordable Care Act. Not only is he now ineligible for such help, but the course load reduction will translate to up to $600 less in pay each month."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/20/ccac-obamacare_n_2165383.html

What the above article left out is not only does professor Clint not get the better Health coverage he was expecting from Obamacare, and not only did he get a reduction in $600 a month from the cut back in hours, but the Insurance that he does have currently  "catastrophic health care coverage only" does not meet the minimum requirement to be Obamcare approved, so professor Clint is going to have to pay the penalty come 2014.


More:
http://www.examiner.com/article/2013-small-businesses-cut-employee-hours-to-avoid-healthcare-insurance

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/health-care/item/13160-restaurant-giant-cuts-hours-to-avoid-employer-mandate

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/10/09/obamacare-transforming-america-into-part-timer-nation/

http://eater.com/archives/2012/10/10/olive-garden-red-lobster-to-cut-hours-instead-of-giving-health-insurance.php


BTW I agree with Straw Man about HSA's, they really are great product currently... unfortunately that wont be the case in 2014 as most wont meet the minimum requirement to be Obama-care approved and will force the penalty/tax on many that currently have them. Some Companies are trying to somehow redesign these plans to be Obama-care approved for 2014 but if that happens, eventually they wont be any better priced than non HSA Plans.

Thank you James, no good could come of something like this...  Lips sealed
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Straw Man
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« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2013, 12:11:35 PM »

HAHAHAAHAHAH!!!

You are going to pay for it next year.

Another BLIND AS A BAT OBAMA SUPPORTER!!!!

This is why this country is in trouble. People like this, who are so misinformed but yet get to cast a ballot and then dare to pontificate on the "virtues" of the Democratic Party and the clowninchief.

I'm not paying shit dumbass
I checked with my broker just to be sure and my plan is in full compliance with the new law.   just more bullshit from the right wing
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dario73
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« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2013, 12:26:56 PM »

I'm not paying shit dumbass
I checked with my broker just to be sure and my plan is in full compliance with the new law.   just more bullshit from the right wing

No. You are paying more. Your broker is as clueless as you.

NITWIT.
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Straw Man
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« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2013, 01:16:21 PM »

No. You are paying more. Your broker is as clueless as you.

NITWIT.

you must have some kind of Karl Rove type right wing math going on

I dropped my monthly premium from over $400 to $138 a month and my plan is in full compliance with the law

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Soul Crusher
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« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2013, 01:17:18 PM »

you must have some kind of Karl Rove type right wing math going on

I dropped my monthly premium from over $400 to $138 a month and my plan is in full compliance with the law



You have to look if it will be in 2014 when the minimum coverage requirements kick in. 
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Straw Man
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« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2013, 01:22:08 PM »

You have to look if it will be in 2014 when the minimum coverage requirements kick in. 

yep, I talked with my broker about that and he said that he expects that the law will be modified or the plan will be tweaked to conform

I'm not losing any sleep over it
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James
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« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2013, 03:02:21 PM »

yep, I talked with my broker about that and he said that he expects that the law will be modified or the plan will be tweaked to conform

I'm not losing any sleep over it

The current Plan you have is not a ObamaCare approved plan, and unless the law is changed, you will not have a plan that meets the minimum requirements. So you may not be losing sleep over it, but you will be losing money over it as come 2014 you will be paying the penalty/tax.
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Straw Man
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« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2013, 03:13:20 PM »


You may not be losing sleep over it, but you will be losing money over it as come 2014 you will be paying the penalty/tax

not worried about it

I'll switch plans if  I have to but I doubt that will be case

For now I'll  just have to console myself with fact that I cut my monthly premium by 65% and I can still max out the HSA  this year

More than likely the plan will be tweaked to conform to the law or they will tweak the law rather than me having to change anything
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Straw Man
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« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2013, 03:17:46 PM »

The current Plan you have is not a ObamaCare  approved plan, and unless the law is changed, you will not have a plan that meets the minimum requirements. So you may not be losing sleep over it, but you will be losing money over it as come 2014 you will be paying the penalty/tax.

My plan is fine for 2013

I'll worry about 2014 next year
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James
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« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2013, 03:21:58 PM »

funny you mention that

I just referred my friend who has a wife and 3 kids to the same broker I used and he just called me telling me he cut his family's premium from almost 1k a month to less than $475 a month

He's on the same plan as me.

PPO plan with HSA and 4500 deductible

Even Kaiser was almost twice as much



You might want to also let your friends know that his wife and kids are 11 months away from the Penalty/Tax beginning.  Shocked
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Straw Man
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« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2013, 03:26:28 PM »

Might want to let your friends know that his wife and kids are 11 months away from the Penalty/Tax beginning.  Shocked

I'm not their broker and they will have the same options as I do a year from now

Most likely something will be tweaked to make it fit
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James
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« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2013, 03:37:50 PM »

I'm not there broker and they will have the same options as I do a year from now

Most likely something will be tweaked to make it fit

No bill presented yet to make the change, so don't count on it, so you might want to let all of your friends (that you referred to your broker) know that this type of Plan is not an Obama-care approved Plan and comes with a penalty/tax 11 months from now.

BTW your Broker should have advised you of this prior to taking your application.
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Straw Man
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« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2013, 03:42:54 PM »

No bill presented yet to make the change, so don't count on it, so you might want to let all of your friends (that you referred to your broker) know that this type of Plan is not an Obama-care approved Plan and comes with a penalty/tax 11 months from now.

BTW your Broker should have advised you of this at the beginning.

yeah, it's Feb 1

when did the new Congress convene ?

btw - it would have made zero difference to me to know that I might have to change plans again in 2014

I wouldn't have chosen to continue paying more in 2013 just because I might have to switch again in 2014

btw - the plan I left was a group plan, PP0 with an HSA and a 3500 deductible so that plan might not conform in 2014 either

All I did was increase my deductible by 1k while lowering my monthly premium by 262  a month (65% reduction)

Even If I have to pay a penalty (highly unlikely since it's at my discretion) I'd still probably be saving money compared to my old plan

Thanks for your concern.   It's not usually my policy to worry about stuff that's a year away and will likely never even happen
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« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2013, 06:21:06 PM »

yeah, it's Feb 1

when did the new Congress convene ?

btw - it would have made zero difference to me to know that I might have to change plans again in 2014

I wouldn't have chosen to continue paying more in 2013 just because I might have to switch again in 2014

btw - the plan I left was a group plan, PP0 with an HSA and a 3500 deductible so that plan might not conform in 2014 either

All I did was increase my deductible by 1k while lowering my monthly premium by 262  a month (65% reduction)

Even If I have to pay a penalty (highly unlikely since it's at my discretion) I'd still probably be saving money compared to my old plan

Thanks for your concern.   It's not usually my policy to worry about stuff that's a year away and will likely never even happen

Don't save a ton of money now because you may have to change in the future bro. That doesn't make sense, stay with the higher rated plan.
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