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Author Topic: New York State Resistance - "... prime for something like that." 1/29/13  (Read 653 times)
Roger Bacon
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« on: February 02, 2013, 10:24:59 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTdhVxva5KU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTdhVxva5KU</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol1SzjHPFGw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol1SzjHPFGw</a>
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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2013, 10:32:22 PM »

This law is insane must be repealed - its communism and totalitarian liberal garbage. 
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Hugo Chavez
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« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2013, 11:00:05 PM »

They really are trying to start a civil war. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2013, 11:02:04 PM »

They really are trying to start a civil war. Roll Eyes

Bro - the NY liberal communist leftist tyrants made hundreds of thousands of us felons overnight. 

You wonder why I really would not lose a seconds'sleep if every leftist and liberal piece of shit were tossed into shark infested waters? 
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Hugo Chavez
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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2013, 11:07:00 PM »

If this is the NY reaction, what do these gun control advocates think is going to happen when they try to do this shit in states like Texas or Wyoming lol....
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« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2013, 11:10:02 PM »

If this is the NY reaction, what do these gun control advocates think is going to happen when they try to do this shit in states like Texas or Wyoming lol....

Good!!!! 

If these liberal communist pieces of shit want a civil war - many of us really have no issue w it - its because of their doing.   



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tbombz
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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2013, 01:20:26 AM »

This law is insane must be repealed - its communism and totalitarian liberal garbage. 
communism doesnt involve any government, laws, or regulations. it is basically anarchy.  just fyi.
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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2013, 01:26:43 AM »

Good!!!!  

If these liberal communist pieces of shit want a civil war - many of us really have no issue w it - its because of their doing.    




That's the last thing I want to see happen.  I do have issue with it and I don't want it to get ugly...  But it sure in the fuck looks like that's what gun control advocates want to happen.
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JBGRAY
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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2013, 01:58:08 AM »

communism doesnt involve any government, laws, or regulations. it is basically anarchy.  just fyi.

Ummmmm....communism is complete governmental control of all industries.  The former USSR and East Germany did not melt down due to anarchy.  China of today is not in a state of anarchy.  The only thing communism leads to is a lot of hunger and destitution.

Oh, and let there be a civil war...it'd be entertaining as fuck....and would be over very soon.  What are a bunch of gun owners going to do against tanks and predator drones and police with miitary-grade equipment?  Answer....nothing.
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« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2013, 02:04:23 AM »

Ummmmm....communism is complete governmental control of all industries.  The former USSR and East Germany did not melt down due to anarchy.  China of today is not in a state of anarchy.  The only thing communism leads to is a lot of hunger and destitution.

Oh, and let there be a civil war...it'd be entertaining as fuck....and would be over very soon.  What are a bunch of gun owners going to do against tanks and predator drones and police with miitary-grade equipment?  Answer....nothing.
communism is ownership and operation of all industry by the people and for the people. it is complete cooperation, without any centralized power.  it is a theory.

ussr was not communist. it was fascism.  labeling a duck an orange does not make it so.
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Roger Bacon
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« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2013, 02:16:41 AM »

communism is ownership and operation of all industry by the people and for the people. it is complete cooperation, without any centralized power.  

Like you just said, that's only in theory...  

The USSR was real world communism, so I guess 333386 wasn't far off?

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« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2013, 02:32:45 AM »

What are a bunch of gun owners going to do against tanks and predator drones and police with miitary-grade equipment?  Answer....nothing.
It's not a laughing matter.  If shit does go nuts over this, don't think for a second that it's not possible there would be a division in government over it with the military siding one way or dividing over it--it's all very possible...  Of all the hot buttons they've chose to push, they picked a big one with this.  Libs and gov should back the fuck up a step and think this one over a bit.
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« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2013, 12:39:15 PM »

It's not a laughing matter.  If shit does go nuts over this, don't think for a second that it's not possible there would be a division in government over it with the military siding one way or dividing over it--it's all very possible...  Of all the hot buttons they've chose to push, they picked a big one with this.  Libs and gov should back the fuck up a step and think this one over a bit.

I am against most gun control measures (even the ones in place currently).   However, I think the ones who do decide to go against the grain and align themselves with the civilian populace will be in the extreme minority.  The military, and perhaps even to a further extent, the police, will see this as an "us vs them" scenario.  The only real deviations from the divisions in government would likely be at the state level.  I can definitely see the military viewing US citizens within large cities and rural areas as being equivalent to Iraqi citizens in Fallujah should any sort of martial law be imposed.
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« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2013, 03:56:40 PM »

I am against most gun control measures (even the ones in place currently).   However, I think the ones who do decide to go against the grain and align themselves with the civilian populace will be in the extreme minority.  The military, and perhaps even to a further extent, the police, will see this as an "us vs them" scenario.  The only real deviations from the divisions in government would likely be at the state level.  I can definitely see the military viewing US citizens within large cities and rural areas as being equivalent to Iraqi citizens in Fallujah should any sort of martial law be imposed.

I think you're vastly misunderstanding who the average enlisted man aligns themselves with socially.  The one socio-political entity that has always been "for the troops" has been the typical gun-owning middle American male.  
To think that the massive amount of military personnel born and raised in a gun-owning "small town" America would side AGAINST those very people...and do it on behalf of the liberal left who've trashed them and called them "baby killers" or worse for decades is something you might want to take another look at.
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« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2013, 09:25:23 PM »

I am against most gun control measures (even the ones in place currently).   However, I think the ones who do decide to go against the grain and align themselves with the civilian populace will be in the extreme minority.  The military, and perhaps even to a further extent, the police, will see this as an "us vs them" scenario.  The only real deviations from the divisions in government would likely be at the state level.  I can definitely see the military viewing US citizens within large cities and rural areas as being equivalent to Iraqi citizens in Fallujah should any sort of martial law be imposed.
there are nearly 3 times as many ex military in the civilian population as there are active military members. Take into account those member will have to kill their family, neighbors and friends if they do indeed choose to side with the military over the citizens and you get a shit load of "defectors".

The military makes up less than 1% of the entire US population, for ppl to think the US population has no chance against the military...ONE shows they have no education in history and TWO shows they have no clue as to the situation as a whole.
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« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2013, 09:31:15 PM »

I am against most gun control measures (even the ones in place currently).   However, I think the ones who do decide to go against the grain and align themselves with the civilian populace will be in the extreme minority.  The military, and perhaps even to a further extent, the police, will see this as an "us vs them" scenario.  The only real deviations from the divisions in government would likely be at the state level.  I can definitely see the military viewing US citizens within large cities and rural areas as being equivalent to Iraqi citizens in Fallujah should any sort of martial law be imposed.
Pretty obvious you've never been enlisted....  You realize that the people that actually do the fighting, maintain and operate most of the equipment, are in fact normal people that took an oath to defend this country?

Not to protect the Federal Government... an oath to uphold the constitution and protect the citizens of the country.
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« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2013, 10:56:31 PM »

Pretty obvious you've never been enlisted....  You realize that the people that actually do the fighting, maintain and operate most of the equipment, are in fact normal people that took an oath to defend this country?

Not to protect the Federal Government... an oath to uphold the constitution and protect the citizens of the country.

I most certainly have been enlisted...did a 4 year active stint followed by 4 years of active reserve duty(USN, then USCG).  Like every other normal person around me, I would follow orders.  That is what is drilled into you, afterall.

I hope the situation never presents itself where we would find out who is right. If it should present itself, I'd sincerely hope that I am wrong and that you are right.....I just disagree based upon my own military and law enforcement experiences.   
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« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2013, 01:11:44 AM »

Like you just said, that's only in theory...  

The USSR was real world communism, so I guess 333386 wasn't far off?


no, ussr was not "real world communism". at best you could say it was "a result which occured in the real world when communism was tried but failed".

communism is communism. it is no government, no private ownership, and public cooperation in production and consumption. this is communism. if an economy is not all these things, it is not communism.
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« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2013, 01:35:51 AM »

no, ussr was not "real world communism". at best you could say it was "a result which occured in the real world when communism was tried but failed".

communism is communism. it is no government, no private ownership, and public cooperation in production and consumption. this is communism. if an economy is not all these things, it is not communism.


Can you give me a real world example that matches theory?
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« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2013, 02:32:04 AM »


Can you give me a real world example that matches theory?
theories do not need real world examples.

they are only theories.
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« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2013, 06:14:35 AM »

I most certainly have been enlisted...did a 4 year active stint followed by 4 years of active reserve duty(USN, then USCG).  Like every other normal person around me, I would follow orders.  That is what is drilled into you, afterall.

I hope the situation never presents itself where we would find out who is right. If it should present itself, I'd sincerely hope that I am wrong and that you are right.....I just disagree based upon my own military and law enforcement experiences.   
Interesting. Your experience highly differs from mine. I know very few Marines that would be cool with subjugating their fellow citizens.
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« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2013, 10:23:09 AM »

Empire State gun owners sue to block state’s gun ban



By: Raquel Okyay
2/4/2013 09:55 AM

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Leading gun rights groups put New York State on notice for violating the U.S. and New York State Constitutions for passage and enforcement of the NYS SAFE Act 2013.
 
“On January 29, we served a Notice of Claim on the Attorney General of the State of New York,” said Brian Stapelton, partner at Goldberg Segalla LLP, an Albany law firm. “This is the jurisdictional prerequisite for filing a lawsuit against a municipal body.”
 
The state has 90 days to respond, he said. “Thereafter, we will challenge the unconstitutional SAFE Act as quickly and aggressively as procedures permit.”
 
“The SAFE Act is a de-facto gun ban. It violates not only the Second Amendment, but also Federal law and other sections of the Constitution,” said J. Scott Sommavilla, President of Westchester County Firearms Owners Association, a co-plaintiff in the claim. “The law has so many holes, it begs for legal action.”
 
“Gun owners are angry that their right to purchase and sell firearms is severely restricted in violation of the Commerce clause,” he said.
 
Most manufacturers do not carry the current limit of 7-round magazines for the semi- automatic hand gun. Since federal law limits magazines to10-rounds, that is the base for manufacturers, he said.
 
The result is gun distributors will not sell their firearms to residents in New York State because of the possible liability, he said. “It’s just not worth it for them.”
 
Sommavilla suggests that gun owners feel disenfranchised by their representatives who failed to consider public input, the Constitution or common sense into the law. “We have to wonder whether it was intentional, ignorant, or both.”
 
Thomas H. King, President of the N.Y.S. Rifle & Pistol Association and co-plaintiff said, “We hired the best Second Amendment lawyers in the country.”
 
“This feel good legislation proposed to convince people that something done would make us safer, only takes firearms out of the hands of lawful citizens, and does nothing to keep us safe,” he said.
 
“We are sure that moving forward, gun manufactures, gun rights groups, and individuals will be joining us in this lawsuit,” he said.
 
The Notice of Claim says that plaintiffs do not seek monetary damages, but rather injunctive and declaratory relief against the ongoing enforcement of the NYS SAFE Act.
 
It says that the law violates fundamental constitutional rights to lawfully possess, keep, bear and use firearms for self-defense and other lawful purposes; violates constitutional rights to privacy; and impermissibly interferes with and infringes upon fundamental constitutional rights to travel both intra-state and inter-state with lawfully possessed firearms.
 
The notice states that current law deprives the plaintiffs of life, liberty and/or property without due process of law and it deprives the plaintiffs of the equal protection of the laws, in violation of the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
 
Plaintiffs also allege that the law passed is being continuously enforced with the ongoing tortious intent to harass, harm, impede, interfere with, disrupt, interrupt, and/or destroy the present and future business and commercial activities of those plaintiffs who engage in the design of, manufacture of, distribution of, sale of, possession of, and/or training in the safe and lawful use of firearms, ammunition, and/or large capacity feeding devices.
 
A recent Quinnipiac University poll shows that a once popular Democratic Governor Andrew M. Cuomo has a significantly reduced approval rating.
 
“The unlawfulness of the SAFE Act is resonating with the people,” said King who is also a National Rifle Association board member.
 
“There are two different cultures in New York State, the New York City culture verses the rest of the state,” he said. “There are a number of people in New York City who are vehemently against guns.”
 
“A very pro-gun constituency wants their voices heard,” he said. “We think our efforts will be effective.”
 
Emails from Human Events to the Attorney General’s press office were not answered.
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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2013, 10:30:03 AM »

theories do not need real world examples.

they are only theories.

Sort of like the theory of relativity, gravity or evolution, right?

WOW, just fucking WOW.
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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2013, 12:39:49 PM »

Sort of like the theory of relativity, gravity or evolution, right?

WOW, just fucking WOW.
if you wish to PROVE that your theory is based on reality, then youll need to provide evidence.

but if your theory is an idealistic society far more socially advanced than any that has ever existed on earth...   you cant prove it untill such a society exists, and untill then its just a theory.
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« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2013, 08:30:45 AM »

February 5, 2013
New York's 'SAFE' Act: The 'Rape' of the Second Amendment
By Michael Filozof

 



In January, the New York State Legislature passed the Orwellian-sounding "SAFE" (Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement) Act.  The act was debated in closed session without committee hearings, and Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed it into law within an hour of its passage -- after waiving the required three-day public comment period.  Cuomo bragged that New York now has the "toughest assault weapons ban" in the country but claimed that the law respects the Second Amendment and preserves the rights of "hunters and sportsmen."  The former is true; the latter is a bald-faced lie.  Even if you do not live in New York, you should be very worried, because the SAFE Act is a harbinger of what Democrats in the federal government will do nationwide if they can.
 


The SAFE Act is far worse than you might imagine.  Harold "Budd" Schroeder, member of the NRA Board of Directors from New York, described the law as "the rape of our gun rights."  That is no exaggeration.  The law is as harsh as (or harsher than) the gun laws of some European nations that do not have a Bill or Rights or a Second Amendment.
 


The most widely reported provision of the law is the total ban on the sale of military-style rifles classified as "assault weapons," effective Jan. 15.  The provision forever prohibits anyone other than a law enforcement agency from acquiring such weapons, including the popular hunting and target variants of the AR-15 rifle.  Current owners of such rifles must register them with the state by 2014, and the registration must be renewed every five years.  This gives the state a list of persons from which to confiscate them in the future, and the five-year renewal provision gives the state an excuse to find ways to deny ownership once every five years.  Current owners of such rifles may never sell them to another New York State resident in the future.
 


Shockingly enough, in many ways the "assault weapons ban" is actually one of the statute's lesser infringements on the Second Amendment.  The statute criminalizes, potentially criminalizes, or places under state surveillance even the most innocuous, banal, and pedestrian forms of gun ownership, and it restricts the right of self-defense.
 


The new law prohibits the sale of any quantity of ammunition by anyone other than a licensed dealer and requires that such dealer perform a criminal background check on the purchaser and forward the purchaser's name, address, age, and occupation, and the quantity, caliber, and make of the ammunition, to a State Police database.  Thus, the ammunition database creates a de facto universal long gun registry.  A hunter who purchases a box of five 12-gauge deer slugs may think that his purchase is innocent enough; however, it will have the effect of informing the State Police that he owns a 12-gauge shotgun, enabling them to confiscate it in the future if they so choose.
 


The purchase of large quantities of ammunition will likely set off alarm bells at State Police headquarters.  But what is truly sinister about the ammunition registry is that no one actually knows "how much" will be deemed "too much" -- because the law does not prohibit the purchase or ownership of any specific quantity of ammunition.  Thus, one may become the target of a police investigation for engaging in a perfectly legal activity.  Since many gun owners have vowed to defy the "assault weapons" registration, it is highly likely that the State Police will use the ammunition database as a means to discover and confiscate unregistered rifles.
 


The ammunition registration is crucial to the law's confiscation scheme.  The law affirmatively requires that a person's firearms must be confiscated if any order of protection is filed against him -- no matter how bogus the complaint may be.  It also requires that a "mental health professional" (including a physician) who believes that an individual is a danger to himself or others must report his diagnosis to the police for purposes of firearm confiscation.  Such a diagnosis is highly subjective and could be easily politicized.  (For instance, in the 1964 presidential campaign, a group of psychiatrists "diagnosed" conservative Sen. Barry Goldwater as insane.)  But the law exempts such "professionals" from civil liability; thus, any "mental health professional" who believes that all gun owners are "nuts" could initiate the confiscation of a person's firearms, and the gun owner is forbidden to file a civil suit to challenge the "diagnosis."
 


The SAFE Act also severely infringes on the right of self-defense from criminal predation.  Although Article 35 of New York Penal law allows the use of deadly force in the event of a home invasion, the SAFE Act restricts the ammunition capacity of all centerfire guns to seven rounds.  If you possess a magazine loaded with more than seven rounds in your own home, you are guilty of a criminal offense.
 


So suppose a criminal with a stolen handgun and an illegal 15-round magazine invades your home.  If you shoot at him with more than eight rounds (seven plus one in the chamber), you will be criminally charged, and your magazine (and possibly your firearm) will be confiscated and destroyed without compensation, because you have now used it in the commission of a crime.  Beyond that, since a handgun permit in New York is not merely a permit to carry, but a permit to possess, after you have been charged with the crime of shooting at the home invader with a high-capacity magazine, your permit will be revoked, and all of your handguns will be confiscated.
 


The seven-round magazine limit effectively bans or severely restricts the use of perhaps 75% of the firearms designed in the past 100 years.  Seven-round magazines simply do not exist for common firearms such as the 13-shot Browning Hi-Power pistol, first manufactured in 1935, or the 10-shot Ruger 10/22 rifle, five million of which have been manufactured since the 1960s.  The M-1 "Garand" rifle, adopted by the U.S. Army in 1936, was designed exclusively to use an eight-round "clip," which will now be considered an illegal "high capacity ammunition feeding device."  Although the Act "grandfathers" existing ten-round magazines, it forbids owners to put more than seven rounds in them, and it requires lawful owners of magazines capable of holding more than ten rounds to sell them out of state, surrender them, or destroy them.  This is clearly an unconstitutional deprivation of private property, in violation of the Fifth Amendment.
 


The law also prohibits the private "sale" or "exchange" of any firearm to any person unless a licensed dealer performs the "sale" and a background check.  The politically correct law exempts parents, spouses, children, stepchildren and "domestic partners."  Thus, the divorced Cuomo may legally give his live-in girlfriend Sandra Lee a firearm without a dealer transfer and background check, but if a serial rapist and murderer (such as the notorious "Bike Path Rapist" Altemio Sanchez , who terrorized women for three decades while the cops put the wrong guy in prison) is on the loose, you may not give a shotgun to your sister for self-protection.  You may give your live-in gay lover a firearm, but you may not give your brother or nephew a .22 rifle on Christmas Eve.  The law does not clarify how long someone must be in possession of a firearm before such possession is understood to be an "exchange"; thus, it is possible that lending a rifle to your brother-in-law for deer season without a dealer transfer and a background check could be construed as an illegal "exchange."  You would then be a criminal, and the gun used in the "crime" could be confiscated and destroyed.
 


Finally, the SAFE Act requires that gun owners report any "loss or theft" of a firearm or ammunition to the police within 24 hours.  Failure to do so is a criminal offense.  Read literally, a deer hunter in Saranac Lake who drops a single 12-gauge slug in the snow and cannot find it is a criminal unless he reports the loss to the police.
 


The New York SAFE Act is one of the most breathtakingly brazen assaults on the Constitution and on individual liberty in the history of the United States.  Cuomo has gleefully thumbed his nose at the Supreme Court's Heller and McDonald decisions in 2008 and 2010 affirming the right to keep and bear arms.  The intent of the law is to suppress and criminalize the common use of firearms, including guns not defined as "assault weapons."
 


The SAFE Act must be resisted on all levels.  I urge firearm manufacturers, like Remington and Kimber, to leave New York State as soon as possible and stop paying taxes to a government that seeks to suppress the right to own their products.  Firearms wholesalers and police supply outfits should boycott New York State law enforcement agencies.  Gun manufacturers should refuse sales and warranty service to police agencies in the state.  I strongly counsel residents of other states who value liberty to avoid New York at all costs.  Avoid tourist trips to New York City; the law has made a mockery of the Statue of "Liberty."  Residents of other states should avoid moving to New York under all but the most dire circumstances, and New York residents should begin making plans to leave as soon as possible.
 


New York has the highest taxes in the nation.  Twenty-five percent of the population is on Medicaid.  It has the highest rate of union membership in the nation.  It is ranked as the least "business-friendly" state in the country.  There is nothing to be gained in New York (unless you are on welfare).  Nothing.
 


Above all else, remember that even if you do not live in New York, you cannot be complacent.  The gun-banners are coming after you next.
 





Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/02/new_yorks_safe_act_the_rape_of_the_second_amendment.html#ixzz2K2TTRn61

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