Carbohydrate back-loading... Have you tried it?

[240 is Back]

Essentially... you spend 10 days limiting your daily carb intake to 30 grams per day.

After that, you wake up each day, you enjoy ONLY fat and protein for the first few meals of the day, keeping your body in this fat-burning mode.

You work out.  Using fat for energy, not carbs.

Then, after your workout, you're allowed to PIG OUT - lots of carbs and a little junk is okay.

I'm not sure what you're supposed to do for the rest of the day... if that post-workout meal is the ONLY carb 'feeding' of the day, and you have to go back to fat/protein only after that?

Have you tried it?  Junk or useful?

[OTHstrong]

Remember carbs can be stored for as much as 4 days, so if you pig out after your workout with say ''600 grams of carbs'' in a single meal, those carbs will not be burned by morning.

When you wake up in the morning and do not eat carbs for the first 3 meals (thinking you are burning fat cause you haven't been eating carbs) you are not burning any fat whatsoever cause you will be burning some of the 600 grams of carbs from the previous nights pig out meal. So this plan can backfire if it's an all out carb feast for dinner.

Now if it is simply a big meal with say 300 grams of carbs then it will work nicely, your next day workout should be pure fat burning, what to eat at night before bed? How about Chicken breast and broccoli or tilapia fish and asparagus or just a plain old protein shake.  

[calfzilla]

End of thread.

[tbombz]

240 , that can be a decent diet.  you still need to keep total calories in check - like with all diets.

basically what your doing is just eating protein, fat, and veggies. except for "post workout" (in order to replenish glycogen and spike insulin/blunt protein breakdown)

it works ok

but at the end of the day/week.. what matters most is total calories , and of course if your getting sufficient protein. although limiting saturated fat intake can be helpful, even on low carb diets saturated fats arent very desireable.   for health, veggie intake is the huge.

but hey.. what do i know

[240 is Back]

I dont need many 2000 calorie junk meals haha.  Not using the diet for that.  Rather, a way to eat a lot more protein and stay bigger.  i get skinny every time cabrs go low.

[Rudee]

Remember carbs can be stored for as much as 4 days

There are several factors in play that determine the amount of glycogen a person stores in their liver and in their muscles, and how quickly these stores can be depleted.  It's not simply a function of a number of days.

Now if it is simply a big meal with say 300 grams of carbs then it will work nicely, your next day workout should be pure fat burning.

Due to the same factors, it's unlikely that anybody who has consumed 300 grams of carbohydrate (equivalent to 6 large sweet potatoes) is going to be burning pure fat the following day.

[Hulkotron]

Essentially... you spend 10 days limiting your daily carb intake to 30 grams per day.

After that, you wake up each day, you enjoy ONLY fat and protein for the first few meals of the day, keeping your body in this fat-burning mode.

You work out.  Using fat for energy, not carbs.

Then, after your workout, you're allowed to PIG OUT - lots of carbs and a little junk is okay.

I'm not sure what you're supposed to do for the rest of the day... if that post-workout meal is the ONLY carb 'feeding' of the day, and you have to go back to fat/protein only after that?

Have you tried it?  Junk or useful?

[Soul Crusher]

Looks like fun to be had! 

Ad for 240 question - seems too much of a pain in the ass to follow.

[Jon Harridan]

I dont need many 2000 calorie junk meals haha.  Not using the diet for that.  Rather, a way to eat a lot more protein and stay bigger.  i get skinny every time cabrs go low.

Of course you do, smart guy. You need tons of the right carbs if you want the mass. I mean just look at me. I take in LOTS of quality carbs and I'm big and full as hell. Even my girlfriend says so so I can't be wrong.

[Rudee]

I've experimented with the Renegade diet, which is a form of carb back-loading, and it works extremely well.   You can shed body fat at a decent rate back-loading carbs (only eating carbs post workout) if your back-loaded carbs are kept in a window of about .7 to 1 grams per pound.   If you're doing lower intensity exercise, keep the carbs around the .7 grams per pound level.  If you are doing higher intensity exercise, keep the carbs around the 1 grams per pound for rapid fat loss.   Higher intensity routines such as P90x, Rushfit, Insanity, etc work very well with carb back-loading.   However, you need to experiment to find your  'sweet spot', which is ingesting only the amount of carbohydrate you need to fuel the following day's workout, and no more.   Once you dial in the right number for your body the fat should start melting away pretty quickly.  If you're not focused purely on rapid fat loss, then you can increase your carbs to upwards of 2 grams per pound. You'll spillover for sure, but you'll see nice gains in strength and overall size if that's what you're main goal is.

Here it is in a nutshell (Renegade Diet)

Pre-workout:   4 hour window where you eat 1 to 3 meals of slow digesting proteins, (beef, chicken, etc) healthy fats, (coconut oil, olive oil, nut butter, etc) and green veggies (Spinach, Broccoli, Asparagus, etc)
Post-workout:  4 hour window where you eat 1 to 3 meals of fast digesting proteins, (fish, eggs, whey protein, etc)  minimal fats, and carbohydrates (rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes, etc)
Fast:  16 hour fast.
Repeat!

[NaturalWonder83]

just fast in the morning
then workout mid morning or at noon-take some bcaas and stims pre workout
eat a whey shake and a bannana after
then eat 1-2 small meals after
then have a big dinner with a good amount of carbs

[Jon Harridan]

just fast in the morning
then workout mid morning or at noon-take some bcaas and stims pre workout
eat a whey shake and a bannana after
then eat 1-2 small meals after
then have a big dinner with a good amount of carbs

That sounds somewhat like the Warrior Diet. Here's a free gift from Team Harridan and Ori Hofmekler (the man behind the Warrior Diet and others).

http://www.bodytrim.ws/files/users/e/6E00C2F48B406355E040A8C0AC004A5F/The%20Stubborn%20Fat%20Solution.pdf

[Jon Harridan]

Essentially... you spend 10 days limiting your daily carb intake to 30 grams per day.

After that, you wake up each day, you enjoy ONLY fat and protein for the first few meals of the day, keeping your body in this fat-burning mode.

You work out.  Using fat for energy, not carbs.

Then, after your workout, you're allowed to PIG OUT - lots of carbs and a little junk is okay.

I'm not sure what you're supposed to do for the rest of the day... if that post-workout meal is the ONLY carb 'feeding' of the day, and you have to go back to fat/protein only after that?

Have you tried it?  Junk or useful?

As I said before all ketogenic diets are junk. Even worse they are radical and dangerous! The concept here sounds so smart, doesn't it? Starve the body of carbs so it has no choice but to burn up its fat stores but the reality's all too different! The body's preferred fuel is carbs, remember that. Don't go against the laws of nature and you'll do fine. This advice is on the house though it is easily worth thousands. What price can you put on your precious health? If you want to shed the flab then do it safely. Your body will thank you for it.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/128113-dangers-ketogenic-diets/

http://www.sideroad.com/Weight_Loss/low-carb-diet-danger.html

[ukjeff]

what kind of carbs did eskimos eat when they had no access to any.

Its also the reason why eskimos cant drive cars.   

[Jon Harridan]

against nature my balls.

what kind of carbs did eskimos eat when they had no access to any.

The Eskimos? LOL, obviously in the icy wastelands they're not living in a natural environnment where carbs (fruits, veggies) grow in abundance.

[Rudee]

The body's preferred fuel is carbs, remember that.

Actually, fat is the preferred fuel of human metabolism, and this can be traced back to our evolutionary roots all the way back to the paleolithic period.  It's has only been since the mid 1900s that carbohydrates (not including vegetables and, to some extent, fruit) become the “norm".  Ketones, not glucose, ran the brains and bodies of our ancestors. 

[Method101]

Actually, fat is the preferred fuel of human metabolism, and this can be traced back to our evolutionary roots all the way back to the paleolithic period.  It's has only been since the mid 1900s that carbohydrates (not including vegetables and, to some extent, fruit) become the “norm".

bullshit.

Carbs = insulin release = nutrients go out of bloodstream into muscles faster.

[Rudee]

bullshit.

Carbs = insulin release = nutrients go out of bloodstream into muscles faster.

Pay attention.  I'm not talking about modern bodybuilding here.  I'm talking about human evolution.   You're ancestors were quite efficient on fat, as unlike carbohydrate (which requires conversion to glucose before it can be used for energy) fat requires less conversion, and can be used as energy quickly.   Not all fat is the same mind you, medium chain fats are 100% efficient.

[Method101]

Pay attention.  I'm not talking about modern bodybuilding here.  I'm talking about human evolution.  

The body has to convert fats into carbohydrates in order to use them as energy, how can this be more effective genius?

[Rudee]

The body has to convert fats into carbohydrates in order to use them as energy, how can this be more effective genius?

No it doesn't.   Fat can be used for energy far more rapidly than carbohydrate, which first has to be converted to glucose.   Long chain fats take longer, but medium-chain triglycerides are fats which bypass the digestion process and are used immediately. It's amino acids from protein, which turns into glucose via gluconeogenesis.   Fat doesn't turn into glucose, genius.

[Jon Harridan]

bullshit.

Carbs = insulin release = nutrients go out of bloodstream into muscles faster.

Exactly. Insulin is anabolic (just ask Phil Heath) and without carbs you don't get the insulin spikes you need to pack the nutrients away into the muscles.

[Jon Harridan]

Carbohydrates are the body’s preferred form of ready
fuel. They are the main source of energy for the brain,
nervous system, red blood cells and muscles.
Typically, carbohydrates are used for energy as they
are consumed. What is not immediately used is stored
in the liver and muscle. Even while sleeping, your
body needs energy for breathing, making your heart
beat, digesting food and metabolizing fat.
The carbohydrates that are stored in the liver and
muscle are called glycogen. It is glycogen that is used
during long periods of physical activity such as walking
and playing sports. Your body pulls from storage
whatever is needed. A healthy diet supplies enough
carbohydrates to produce the glycogen needed to
fuel about 2–4 hours of activity.
You may have heard that low carbohydrate meal plans
help with rapid weight loss. What many people do not
realize is the initial weight loss is primarily water.
Because glycogen holds water and is bulky, water
loss results when glycogen is pulled from storage and
not replenished with consumption of new carbohydrates.
As glycogen is used, the water it holds is
released and weight loss results. However, for many
persons living with HIV/AIDS, low carbohydrate intake
is risky because the body will turn to protein for fuel,
which can lead to muscle loss.The Food Guide Pyramid suggests the foundation of a
healthy diet be based on complex carbohydrate foods
such as whole-wheat breads, cereals, starches and
grains. Fruits, vegetables and dairy foods are next in
line. The Institute of Medicine at the National
Academy of Sciences advises 40–60% of calories
should come from carbohydrate and provide a minimum
of 130 grams, which is the amount necessary
for normal brain and nervous system activity. For
instance, a person who consumes 2000 calories per
day should eat approximately 800 to 1200 carbohydrate
calories per day. Since carbohydrates have 4
calories per gram, this equals 200 to 300 grams of
carbohydrates per day. Read food labels to find out
how many grams of carbohydrates are in each serving
of the foods you enjoy.
Whole grains, fruits and vegetables are packed with
vitamins, minerals and fiber. But, processed carbohydrates,
such as sweets, snack foods and white bread
have been stripped of most of their fiber and nutrients.
Therefore, processed carbohydrates should be
consumed in very small amounts to save room for the
healthier carbohydrate foods. Choose a wide variety
of satisfying cereals, whole grains, fruits and vegetables
as part of a healthy meal plan. For additional
information about fiber and whole grains refer to other
fact sheets.

[Jon Harridan]

Actually, fat is the preferred fuel of human metabolism, and this can be traced back to our evolutionary roots all the way back to the paleolithic period.  It's has only been since the mid 1900s that carbohydrates (not including vegetables and, to some extent, fruit) become the “norm".  Ketones, not glucose, ran the brains and bodies of our ancestors. 

The paleolithic diet included lots of fruits and veggies. Those are CARBS. And I'm not even talking about potatoes, sweet potatoes, yams and grains. The fat in meat and nuts is relatively low so how could fat have been the pimary fuel back then?

[Van_Bilderass]

Remember carbs can be stored for as much as 4 days, so if you pig out after your workout with say ''600 grams of carbs'' in a single meal, those carbs will not be burned by morning.

When you wake up in the morning and do not eat carbs for the first 3 meals (thinking you are burning fat cause you haven't been eating carbs) you are not burning any fat whatsoever cause you will be burning some of the 600 grams of carbs from the previous nights pig out meal. So this plan can backfire if it's an all out carb feast for dinner.

Now if it is simply a big meal with say 300 grams of carbs then it will work nicely, your next day workout should be pure fat burning, what to eat at night before bed? How about Chicken breast and broccoli or tilapia fish and asparagus or just a plain old protein shake.  

My understanding is that if your glycogen is depleted, you will not store any carbs you eat as fat until you have filled your glycogen again. The carbs go first to glycogen.

That's the supposed trick in CKD dieting... you continue burning fat on your carb loading day.
I believe it's true... CKD seems to work real well and the loading days don't seem to slow down your progress.

[OTHstrong]

My understanding is that if your glycogen is depleted, you will not store any carbs you eat as fat until you have filled your glycogen again. The carbs go first to glycogen.

That's the supposed trick in CKD dieting... you continue burning fat on your carb loading day.
I believe it's true... CKD seems to work real well and the loading days don't seem to slow down your progress.

You know I was about to add this as well, yes you are 100% right. Because you are so depleted the first 3 day or even 4 day won't matter but after that you will rebound on anything over 400 grams per day, on average that is. Of course everyone is slightly different.