Only screwed around with tren once myself, but I barely trained and it obviously boosted the hell out of the test I had with it. Then I got shafted right before my honeymoon. Stuff shut me down bad, and I wasn't on near as long asp with other stuff in the past. I just quit everything for a long time after that, marriage ended up being really rough. It worked about as well as prop and var combined, just less work IMO.