Chris Dorner - Southern California - rise and fall

[OTHstrong]

OH WHAT THE FUCK!!!!


THE BURNED A POOR WOMAN TO DEATH!!!!!!! 

WTF, wow if this is so, those cops are done for.

[Radical Plato]

Ekul, you don`t think citizens should have firearms and you rail hard against the police, so much that you think they are all "worthless" killers.


Given your rationale, how is someone supposed to protect themselves at all with no gun and no police?  

That's the whole point, You can't.  it's no better with a Gun and No Police either.  All you do is ironically increase your odds of being shot, not lessen them.  That's why I said, the average Joe Public needs to get vocal about it, and yesterday.  Stop waiting for the Government to strike and rally back against them and demand changes that empower the individual and the oppressed.  Anyway, I am not going to go over my overview again, but essentially, the best one can do is to treat people well, don't give people any excuse to fuck you and hope you come out best in the karmic lottery.  

I remember reading a book years ago about Mountain Climbers and ways to prevent accidents.  I can't even remember the name of the book it was that long ago (I will try and remember the name of the book), and it went into detail about accidents, in general and also in mountain climbing.  I remember thinking he articulated and researched his arguments very well, and fuck me dead if at the end of the book, he concluded that it was IMPOSSIBLE to prevent serious accidents, no matter how well prepared you were, it was almost as if he concluded that an inexperienced climber could die the very next climb he had and some dude wearing sandals who had barely any experience could climb the same mountain at the same time unprepared and get up and down safely.  I guess what I am getting at, is when your time is up, your time is up and shit happens and no amount of preparations can prevent it from happening.  

[240 is Back]

CNN's headline at 5:34.... did police deliberately burn down cabine....
tactics questioned in fiery siege

[Rami]

WTF, wow if this is so, those cops are done for.

yeah, unknown woman put up this gunfight while dorkner was tunneling out and fled on horseback 

[Palpatine Q]

That's the whole point, You can't.  it's no better with a Gun and No Police either.  All you do is ironically increase your odds of being shot, not lessen them.  That's why I said, the average Joe Public needs to get vocal about it, and yesterday.  Stop waiting for the Government to strike and rally back against them and demand changes that empower the individual and the oppressed.  Anyway, I am not going to go over my overview again, but essentially, the best one can do is to treat people well, don't give people any excuse to fuck you and hope you come out best in the karmic lottery.   I remember reading a book years ago about Mountain Climbers and ways to prevent accidents.  I can't even remember the name of the book it was that long ago (I will try and remember the name of the book), and it went into detail about accidents, in general and also in mountain climbing.  And fuck me dead if at the end of the book, he concluded that it was IMPOSSIBLE to prevent serious accidents, no matter how well prepared you were, it was almost as if he concluded that an inexperienced climber could die the very next climb he had and some dude wearing sandals who had barely any experience could climb the same mountain at the same time unprepared and get up and down safely.  I guess what I am getting at, is when your time is up, your time is up and shit happens and no amount of preparations can prevent it from happening.  

Unless of course you father was involved in a police scandal, then you deserve to die....cartel style ....

[arce1988]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/13/nancy-dorner-chris-dorner_n_2678994.html


  His mom was just drinking and joking around and eating chips and salsa?

[OTHstrong]

like i have said.....let's wait and find out all the facts.

I am just being devil's advocate with the hateful shit...although I'm glad he's dead.

I base my opinion on the same thing 240 bases his on, the audio and video that shows they were openly planning to "burn" the house.  where we differ is i think they knew exactly what they were doing and following a procedure that is accepted and perfectly legal.

what happened after that is unclear and way too premature to say you "know" anything.

if it turns out that these guys took the law into their own hands and it was an unsanctioned criminal act....color me surprised as fuck. but i seriously doubt that, i hear nothing like that on any news channel from anyone in a postion of authority...just intenet experts.

the story is already falling off the rotation.

It is not legal, it was not procedure and they knew it was not. You guys keep talking about there intentions as if the intentions make it legal or not (although intentions make the severity of it differently), well it is illegal whether there intentions were to burn him or not. The fact that they set a building on fire with a human inside is illegal according to international laws and probably national laws as well but I have to double check but certainly against Geneva policies.

You can use smoke or burn a portion of a building to lure him into another side of a building but you can not by law engulf the entire building. These guys fucked up BIG TIME and we do not have to wait, it is extremely obvious and you will see this blow up in their face BIG TIME.

[che]

You have to also be okay with the govt/police being able to use that power whenever they deem it necessary.

I'm OK with it ,
 
Dorner was and extremely dangerous criminal  , in this case, lethal force was completely justified .

[Radical Plato]

but essentially, the best one can do is to treat people well, don't give people any excuse to fuck you and hope you come out best in the karmic lottery.  
  

Unless of course you father was involved in a police scandal, then you deserve to die....cartel style ....

She lost the karmic lottery, what can I say!

[arce1988]

  Burning some one alive is NOT the USA way. Legal system should put him on trial. WACO and this are beyond fucked up.

[Palpatine Q]

CNN's headline at 5:34.... did police deliberately burn down cabine....
tactics questioned in fiery siege

Hey Rob...do you really think they would be talking about it so casually and at length, getting confirmation every step of the way...if they knew they were doing something wrong ?

[arce1988]

  At least go in and shoot him to death like they did Osama. They did NOT burn Osama alive.

[Rami]

  Burning some one alive is NOT the USA way. Legal system should put him on trial. WACO and this are beyond fucked up.

WACO was fucked up, this is not.

[Jack T. Cross]

Trust in Law is all we have as a society.  If we lose that trust, we've lost everything.  The police repeatedly shattered that trust during this case.  It says absolutely nothing about Dorner.  

Tough to believe that would be so hard to understand.

[Archer77]

Trust in Law is all we have as a society.  If we lose that trust, we've lost everything.  The police repeatedly shattered that trust during this case.  It says absolutely nothing about Dorner.  

Tough to believe that would be so hard to understand.

Dorners reaction to the situation says a lot about him.

[TrueGrit]

Again, where does it say that they CANNOT use fire to kill him?

Deadly force, as defined by the United States Armed Forces, is the force which a person uses, causing—or that a person knows, or should know, would create a substantial risk of causing—death or serious bodily harm. In most jurisdictions, the use of deadly force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity as a last resort, when all lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be employed.

Firearms, bladed weapons, explosives, and vehicles are among those weapons the use of which is considered deadly force. The use of non-weapons in an aggressive manner, such as a baseball bat or tire iron, may also be considered deadly force.

"Use of deadly force" is often granted to police forces when the person or persons in question are believed to be an immediate danger to people around them. For example, an armed man in a shopping mall shooting at civilians without regard to the safety of anyone around him, and refusing or being unwilling to negotiate, would warrant usage of deadly force, as a means to prevent further danger to the community. The use of deadly force is also authorized when a person poses a significant threat to a law enforcement officer, usually when the officer is at risk of serious bodily injury or death. In the United States this is governed by Tennessee v. Garner, which said that "deadly force...may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." This case established the Fleeing felon rule exception to the use of deadly force. Under this exception, if a police officer establishes probable cause that an individual escaping poses a serious threat of death or significant harm to the officer or others, the officer can use deadly force.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_force

[OTHstrong]

Hey Rob...do you really think they would be talking about it so casually and at length, getting confirmation every step of the way...if they knew they were doing something wrong ?

Bro, these are humans, they make stupid decisions. I know you want to believe they are professionals and can not make a huge mistake like this especially in front of media but this is knew territory they are treading in and this does not happen everyday. These guys were simply impatient, emotional and very COWBOY like trying to be the ''man'' who brings down the big bad wolf, this overly ambitious boss who gave the OK fucked up big time and he will be in the hot seat in the media for the next few months, I put money on it.

[Jack T. Cross]

Dorners reaction to the situation says a lot about him.

What do you mean?

[Trapper_Slapper]

Again, where does it say that they CANNOT use fire to kill him?

Deadly force, as defined by the United States Armed Forces, is the force which a person uses, causing—or that a person knows, or should know, would create a substantial risk of causing—death or serious bodily harm. In most jurisdictions, the use of deadly force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity as a last resort, when all lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be employed.

Firearms, bladed weapons, explosives, and vehicles are among those weapons the use of which is considered deadly force. The use of non-weapons in an aggressive manner, such as a baseball bat or tire iron, may also be considered deadly force.

"Use of deadly force" is often granted to police forces when the person or persons in question are believed to be an immediate danger to people around them. For example, an armed man in a shopping mall shooting at civilians without regard to the safety of anyone around him, and refusing or being unwilling to negotiate, would warrant usage of deadly force, as a means to prevent further danger to the community. The use of deadly force is also authorized when a person poses a significant threat to a law enforcement officer, usually when the officer is at risk of serious bodily injury or death. In the United States this is governed by Tennessee v. Garner, which said that "deadly force...may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." This case established the Fleeing felon rule exception to the use of deadly force. Under this exception, if a police officer establishes probable cause that an individual escaping poses a serious threat of death or significant harm to the officer or others, the officer can use deadly force.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_force

According to the Protocol III of the UN Convention on Conventional Weapons governing the use of incendiary weapons:

prohibits the use of incendiary weapons against civilians (effectively a reaffirmation of the general prohibition on attacks against civilians in Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions)
prohibits the use of air-delivered incendiary weapons against military targets located within concentrations of civilians and loosely regulates the use of other types of incendiary weapons in such circumstances.[6]

-4th Geneva Convention, Part 3, Article 1, Section 28

[Palpatine Q]

Again, where does it say that they CANNOT use fire to kill him?

Deadly force, as defined by the United States Armed Forces, is the force which a person uses, causing—or that a person knows, or should know, would create a substantial risk of causing—death or serious bodily harm. In most jurisdictions, the use of deadly force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity as a last resort, when all lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be employed.

Firearms, bladed weapons, explosives, and vehicles are among those weapons the use of which is considered deadly force. The use of non-weapons in an aggressive manner, such as a baseball bat or tire iron, may also be considered deadly force.

"Use of deadly force" is often granted to police forces when the person or persons in question are believed to be an immediate danger to people around them. For example, an armed man in a shopping mall shooting at civilians without regard to the safety of anyone around him, and refusing or being unwilling to negotiate, would warrant usage of deadly force, as a means to prevent further danger to the community. The use of deadly force is also authorized when a person poses a significant threat to a law enforcement officer, usually when the officer is at risk of serious bodily injury or death. In the United States this is governed by Tennessee v. Garner, which said that "deadly force...may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." This case established the Fleeing felon rule exception to the use of deadly force. Under this exception, if a police officer establishes probable cause that an individual escaping poses a serious threat of death or significant harm to the officer or others, the officer can use deadly force.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_force

 exactly  dead is fucking dead, doesn't say HOW. and PS...he shot himself, they didn't kill him, or burn him to death.

I am really looking forward to a formal press conference so the police can shoot down the idiot reporter who says they burned him alive in two sentences,  and says "next question"

and internet experts are crushing their tinfoil hats and swallowing their microphones in anger worldwide....LOL

[OTHstrong]

Again, where does it say that they CANNOT use fire to kill him?

Deadly force, as defined by the United States Armed Forces, is the force which a person uses, causing—or that a person knows, or should know, would create a substantial risk of causing—death or serious bodily harm. In most jurisdictions, the use of deadly force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity as a last resort, when all lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be employed.

Firearms, bladed weapons, explosives, and vehicles are among those weapons the use of which is considered deadly force. The use of non-weapons in an aggressive manner, such as a baseball bat or tire iron, may also be considered deadly force.

"Use of deadly force" is often granted to police forces when the person or persons in question are believed to be an immediate danger to people around them. For example, an armed man in a shopping mall shooting at civilians without regard to the safety of anyone around him, and refusing or being unwilling to negotiate, would warrant usage of deadly force, as a means to prevent further danger to the community. The use of deadly force is also authorized when a person poses a significant threat to a law enforcement officer, usually when the officer is at risk of serious bodily injury or death. In the United States this is governed by Tennessee v. Garner, which said that "deadly force...may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." This case established the Fleeing felon rule exception to the use of deadly force. Under this exception, if a police officer establishes probable cause that an individual escaping poses a serious threat of death or significant harm to the officer or others, the officer can use deadly force.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_force

NO NO NO 100% illegal, I have studied the Geneva convention policy and protocol and these laws override all laws. It is stated that it is inhuman to burn a building with someone inside. i will look it up later but I know 100% sure it is against the Geneva Convention.

[Jack T. Cross]

I'd also like to know what "lesser means" had failed, and what exact threat others were under.

[Radical Plato]

 

[Dokey111]

waco and philadelphia MOVE

[arce1988]

  With OTH on this.