Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
December 12, 2017, 02:18:20 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Republican: Fetus is the largest organ in the body  (Read 4301 times)
Necrosis
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 9704


« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2013, 01:11:02 PM »

when does it become a baby?


When it no longer meets the criteria of a parasite imo.

Once it is able to sustain its basic needs (breathing, digestion etc) it is a baby. Until then it requires the mother to live and still requires her collateral circulation, her digestion etc.

Until then it isn't really living imo.
Report to moderator   Logged
MCWAY
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 16846


Getbig!


« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2013, 02:09:29 PM »


When it no longer meets the criteria of a parasite imo.

It NEVER has the criteria of parasite. The womb is designed for babies to be developed, especially when the instigation of that process starts with an act, in which the woman VOLUNTARILY ENGAGES, 95% of the time.



Once it is able to sustain its basic needs (breathing, digestion etc) it is a baby. Until then it requires the mother to live and still requires her collateral circulation, her digestion etc.

Until then it isn't really living imo.

A little guy, running around my house and eating grapes as I type this, pretty much shoots your opinion to pieces.
Report to moderator   Logged
Necrosis
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 9704


« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2013, 02:45:07 PM »

It NEVER has the criteria of parasite. The womb is designed for babies to be developed, especially when the instigation of that process starts with an act, in which the woman VOLUNTARILY ENGAGES, 95% of the time.

A little guy, running around my house and eating grapes as I type this, pretty much shoots your opinion to pieces.


wrong, it does.


parasite.
an organism that lives on or in an organism of another species, known as the host, from the body of which it obtains nutriment.

what opinion does he shoot down again? I don't follow.
Report to moderator   Logged
tonymctones
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 26470


« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2013, 03:54:56 PM »


When it no longer meets the criteria of a parasite imo.

Once it is able to sustain its basic needs (breathing, digestion etc) it is a baby. Until then it requires the mother to live and still requires her collateral circulation, her digestion etc.

Until then it isn't really living imo.
one could say its still a parasite after it leaves the womans body as its still requires someone to feed it...

If not then at what point in gestation does the fetus have the ability to survive outside of the womb if given proper care?
Report to moderator   Logged
WOOO
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 18083


Fuck the mods


« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2013, 05:03:06 PM »

one could say its still a parasite after it leaves the womans body as its still requires someone to feed it...

If not then at what point in gestation does the fetus have the ability to survive outside of the womb if given proper care?


fair point
Report to moderator   Logged
avxo
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 5256


Here's looking at you kid!


« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2013, 07:45:02 AM »

It NEVER has the criteria of parasite.

Bullshit. You don't know what the definition of a "parasite" is if you think that.

The womb is designed for babies to be developed, especially when the instigation of that process starts with an act, in which the woman VOLUNTARILY ENGAGES, 95% of the time.

Whether the womb is "designed" (it's not, but let's not quibble over this now) for gestation is irrelevant to the question "is the fetus a parasite?" As for your "statistics" (again, I use the term loosely since you pulled that number out of your ass) it doesn't matter if the "process" started with the woman voluntarily engaged in some behavior 100% of the time. That is irrelevant to the definition of a parasite.


one could say its still a parasite after it leaves the womans body as its still requires someone to feed it...

Not really - at that point it doesn't live in or on the Mother's body, and so doesn't really meet the strict definition of a parasite. Don't split apart the definition and pick and choose what you want to keep to make your argument.


If not then at what point in gestation does the fetus have the ability to survive outside of the womb if given proper care?

That is, certainly, an interesting question, arguments about the fetus being a parasite notwithstanding. Certainly when in utero the fetus qualifies as a parasite. But it doesn't follow it ought to be treated as such automatically, especially in the later stages of pregnancy.

My general feeling is that the fetus (barring some illness, or other medical issue) is "viable" as soon as it able to maintain homeostasis if it is provided the support that a newborn would typically be provided. Of course, in a sense that's really a criterion that's difficult, if not impossible, to judge and apply. That's why we need "bright lines" to delineate "fetus" from "baby". In a sense, the ultimate bright line is "birth" but advances in medical technology have made that line not all that useful for me.

With no special training in obstetrics, my personal take is that anything prior to four months is not viable since critical organs are not yet fully developed or able to operate at sufficient levels. I believe that the youngest premature babies to ever survive were born at about 21 weeks and still required extensive and extraordinary life-support measures; it is my understanding that anything less than 24 weeks is almost insufficient gestational time.

So I don't know that there is a hard cutoff - another bright line - that we could use, and the best we can probably hope for at this time is the "statistical" approach we currently have involving gestation time.
Report to moderator   Logged
LurkerNoMore
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 16285

Tossing sand in your Va-Jay-Jay


« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2013, 08:26:15 AM »

There are machines designed to keep people who are brain dead and unresponsive alive through artificial respiration, circulation, intravenous feeding, etc...

Would you consider those people to be "alive"?
Report to moderator   Logged
Shockwave
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 20842


Decepticons! Scramble!


« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2013, 08:33:05 AM »

Going by the strict definition, a fetus is definitely a parasite.

Noun
An organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.
Report to moderator   Logged
Necrosis
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 9704


« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2013, 08:50:03 AM »

Going by the strict definition, a fetus is definitely a parasite.

Noun
An organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.

yes this was established earlier in the thread. Thanks for stopping by.
Report to moderator   Logged
Shockwave
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 20842


Decepticons! Scramble!


« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2013, 09:06:06 AM »

yes this was established earlier in the thread. Thanks for stopping by.
Choke on a bag of dicks canuck.
Report to moderator   Logged
tonymctones
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 26470


« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2013, 09:07:06 AM »

Bullshit. You don't know what the definition of a "parasite" is if you think that.

Whether the womb is "designed" (it's not, but let's not quibble over this now) for gestation is irrelevant to the question "is the fetus a parasite?" As for your "statistics" (again, I use the term loosely since you pulled that number out of your ass) it doesn't matter if the "process" started with the woman voluntarily engaged in some behavior 100% of the time. That is irrelevant to the definition of a parasite.


Not really - at that point it doesn't live in or on the Mother's body, and so doesn't really meet the strict definition of a parasite. Don't split apart the definition and pick and choose what you want to keep to make your argument.


That is, certainly, an interesting question, arguments about the fetus being a parasite notwithstanding. Certainly when in utero the fetus qualifies as a parasite. But it doesn't follow it ought to be treated as such automatically, especially in the later stages of pregnancy.

My general feeling is that the fetus (barring some illness, or other medical issue) is "viable" as soon as it able to maintain homeostasis if it is provided the support that a newborn would typically be provided. Of course, in a sense that's really a criterion that's difficult, if not impossible, to judge and apply. That's why we need "bright lines" to delineate "fetus" from "baby". In a sense, the ultimate bright line is "birth" but advances in medical technology have made that line not all that useful for me.

With no special training in obstetrics, my personal take is that anything prior to four months is not viable since critical organs are not yet fully developed or able to operate at sufficient levels. I believe that the youngest premature babies to ever survive were born at about 21 weeks and still required extensive and extraordinary life-support measures; it is my understanding that anything less than 24 weeks is almost insufficient gestational time.

So I don't know that there is a hard cutoff - another bright line - that we could use, and the best we can probably hope for at this time is the "statistical" approach we currently have involving gestation time.
by strict definition no as a baby isnt attached to the host in any way but to think that a baby isnt as dependent on a caregiver as a fetus is stupid. Even more so as childs shelter isnt a given as it is in the womb.

Report to moderator   Logged
Necrosis
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 9704


« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2013, 10:25:45 AM »

by strict definition no as a baby isnt attached to the host in any way but to think that a baby isnt as dependent on a caregiver as a fetus is stupid. Even more so as childs shelter isnt a given as it is in the womb.



are you retarded? the baby is in the host, the mother. Where does attached come from, scroll up and read the definition. I don't know why I even bother responding to your posts. Also, you are in need of tutoring on embryology and gynecology.
Report to moderator   Logged
tonymctones
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 26470


« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2013, 10:43:16 AM »

are you retarded? the baby is in the host, the mother. Where does attached come from, scroll up and read the definition. I don't know why I even bother responding to your posts. Also, you are in need of tutoring on embryology and gynecology.
LOL pardon me brain child I used the wrong adjective LMFAO im pretty sure everyone knew what i meant.

do you disagree that a baby outside the womb is just as dependent on others as a fetus?
Report to moderator   Logged
Straw Man
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 31954


one dwells in nirvana


« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2013, 11:03:24 AM »

LOL pardon me brain child I used the wrong adjective LMFAO im pretty sure everyone knew what i meant.

do you disagree that a baby outside the womb is just as dependent on others as a fetus?

dependent = yes

just as dependent = absolutely not
Report to moderator   Logged
tonymctones
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 26470


« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2013, 11:05:07 AM »

dependent = yes

just as dependent = absolutely not
its not just as dependent on the care of others?

what qualifiable difference in self sustainability does child 2 mins after delivery have from a child 2 mins before?
Report to moderator   Logged
Straw Man
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 31954


one dwells in nirvana


« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2013, 11:06:42 AM »

its not just as dependent on the care of others?

what qualifiable difference in self sustainability does child 2 mins after delivery have from a child 2 mins before?

it can breathe on it's own without depending on the host/mother
Report to moderator   Logged
WOOO
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 18083


Fuck the mods


« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2013, 11:12:47 AM »

I would suggest that it's slightly sociopathic to call a child at ANY stage of development a 'parasite'.
Report to moderator   Logged
whork
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 6587


Getbig!


« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2013, 11:30:19 AM »

I would suggest that it's slightly sociopathic to call a child at ANY stage of development a 'parasite'.

No the kid needs to be on welfare before you can call it that.
Report to moderator   Logged
LurkerNoMore
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 16285

Tossing sand in your Va-Jay-Jay


« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2013, 11:36:55 AM »

No the kid needs to be on welfare before you can call it that.

LOL!!
Report to moderator   Logged
tonymctones
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 26470


« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2013, 12:07:37 PM »

it can breathe on it's own without depending on the host/mother
touche sir
Report to moderator   Logged
MCWAY
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 16846


Getbig!


« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2013, 03:49:36 PM »

Bullshit. You don't know what the definition of a "parasite" is if you think that.

Of course, I do. It appears that you, however, DO NOT. A refresher:
An organism that lives on or in an organism.....OF ANOTHER SPECIES, known as the host from the body of which it obtains nutriment.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/parasite

Now when did baby humans become a different species from adult humans again? Thanks for playing!!!



Whether the womb is "designed" (it's not, but let's not quibble over this now) for gestation is irrelevant to the question "is the fetus a parasite?" As for your "statistics" (again, I use the term loosely since you pulled that number out of your ass) it doesn't matter if the "process" started with the woman voluntarily engaged in some behavior 100% of the time. That is irrelevant to the definition of a parasite.

Again, see above. BTW -

According to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), there were 820,151 legal induced abortions in the US in 2005. About 1% is due to incest or rape and about 3% due to mothers health.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Percentage_of_abortions_due_to_rape_incest_or_danger_to_the_mothers_life

SOOOOOO...1% due rape or incest and 3% due to the mother's lives in danger. That's 4%.

Tell me, what's 100% minus 4% again?



If anything, I lowballed the percentages of abortions, done in those instances other than what's known as "hard cases".

Report to moderator   Logged
MCWAY
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 16846


Getbig!


« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2013, 03:58:49 PM »

wrong, it does.


parasite.
an organism that lives on or in an organism of another species, known as the host, from the body of which it obtains nutriment.

what opinion does he shoot down again? I don't follow.

What part of the words, ANOTHER SPECIES, did you not understand?

When that "fetus" gets out of the womb, what is it?

A wilderbeast?

A tapeworm?

A Tazmanian devil?

NOPE!!! It's a HUMAN, just like his/her mama and daddy.

A human being, nesting in a place DESIGNED for it to grow and develop, as a result of a VOLUNTARY ACT (at least 95% of the time), by two OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.
Report to moderator   Logged
tonymctones
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 26470


« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2013, 05:02:46 PM »

What part of the words, ANOTHER SPECIES, did you not understand?

When that "fetus" gets out of the womb, what is it?

A wilderbeast?

A tapeworm?

A Tazmanian devil?

NOPE!!! It's a HUMAN, just like his/her mama and daddy.

A human being, nesting in a place DEISNGED for it to grow and develop, as a result of a VOLUNTARY ACT (at least 95% of the time), by two OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.
hahah nice catch
Report to moderator   Logged
MCWAY
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 16846


Getbig!


« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2013, 05:08:14 PM »

hahah nice catch

Thanks. Now let's hear Necrosis and Avxo explain how baby humans are different species than adult humans.
Report to moderator   Logged
WOOO
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 18083


Fuck the mods


« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2013, 05:34:36 PM »

Thanks. Now let's hear Necrosis and Avxo explain how baby humans are different species than adult humans.

No the kid needs to be on welfare before you can call it that.

I would suggest that it's slightly sociopathic to call a child at ANY stage of development a 'parasite'.

 Grin
Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Theme created by Egad Community. Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!