Low IGF1 - is caber to blame?

[Mawse]

I'm on some shitty generic black tops that might be 192aa but even at 4iu a day I'd expect a moderate IGF1. No, I get shit. I get 100, which is worse than when I was OFF hgh

so I do some research and find caber (which ive been taking for months) actually rapes IGF1 levels in acromegaly patients.

i've flushed the caber obviously but now what to do?

If my serum gh was 12 on 10iu of china eli shit, then I assume there is 5iu in a bottle. So I need to take 6 iu a day to make it even worth the effort and give me a hopeful IGF of about 300-400 ?

also does anyone know about DHEA's effect on IGF1? if its worth adding

[Overload]

Are you talking about Eli Black Tops?  If so that really sucks, my GH serum was between 18-22 on 10iu and my IGF was over 800.  I do feel that some batches are better than others, like my hands and feet will ache really bad on 10iu for a few weeks and then i feel fine.  I don't think they are consistant, but i've tested them 3 times and the results were always the same.

I don't think caber can reduce your IGF levels to almost nothing, but that might be what is going on.  I would just ditch the caber like you did and stay on GH for a while until you get back to normal.

DHEA is very weak and doesn't do much at all from what i've seen.

[Mawse]

apparently some other people have had low hgh serum from the blacks too, I guess theyre not all great.. matve transporting issues.

thanks for replying though - you'd agree that a serum of 12 means that there's probably only 5-6ius in a bottle? Assuming pharm grade 10iu = about 24 serum?

I'm not sure if the caber knocked out HGH in the acros or actually inhibited the conversion of HGH to IGF1 in the liver.. I'm just shitting it until my blood work comes back in the hope i didnt pick up hep from dirty mexican salad and that's why my liver isnt producing IGF like it should.

Can you get HGH benefits if you're not getting the IGF1 conversion? Theres no real answer to this online that I found, just lots of pointless studies on acros and mice

[Overload]

apparently some other people have had low hgh serum from the blacks too, I guess theyre not all great.. matve transporting issues.

thanks for replying though - you'd agree that a serum of 12 means that there's probably only 5-6ius in a bottle? Assuming pharm grade 10iu = about 24 serum?

I'm not sure if the caber knocked out HGH in the acros or actually inhibited the conversion of HGH to IGF1 in the liver.. I'm just shitting it until my blood work comes back in the hope i didnt pick up hep from dirty mexican salad and that's why my liver isnt producing IGF like it should.

Can you get HGH benefits if you're not getting the IGF1 conversion? Theres no real answer to this online that I found, just lots of pointless studies on acros and mice

I wouldn't be surprised, i always felt these blacks were not consistent.  You get what you pay for right?

Well, serum levels can be different from person to person, but i know that i usually have a level of about 20-24 from 10iu of other quality generics.  So if i scored a 12 then yes i would say it's about 5-6iu.  I know a few guys that scored 14-16 from 10iu of pharma GH, so there is a range that needs to be set before you know for sure.

You can get benefits without high IGF levels, but that's a bit beyond my knowledge of how it all converts.  I know a few guys who only get IGF to around 400 on 10iu and they make great gains.  I don't understand enough about how it all works to really give you a solid answer.

[Mawse]

400 IGF would be fine with me, shit I'd take 10iu ED if I could get that... retesting on monday to see if the caber and adex was to blame. If not I guess im fucked because there is a genetic disorder that affects some people where they dont make GH into IGF-1 properly

I thought maybe it was my liver but my values are only about 20% higher than normal, which is ok when taking AAS and wouldnt shut down IGF1 production.. you need end game cirrosis to affect it that much. aT least I dont have hep

I just had another minor muscle tear today, thats 3 in 3 months with light training only DB's, no ego lifting..  I am definitely fucked if this doesnt fix itself. Low IGF1 seems to make people super vulnerable to muscle and tendon tears.. if I cant get about 100 again I might have to think about giving up lifting which sucks. I also dieted on OTH diet with super reduced cals and t3 and tren and only lost 3 lbs in 2 months. And put all the bodyfat right back on after a single cheatmeal (not bloat, but actual fat.. its insane )

[Luolamies]

Why don't you drop the "gh" or just add igf-1lr3 100 mcg daily pwo + mgf (igf-1ec) 200 mcg eod in the morning. I've personally seen pure magic with that combo. + there are couple of guys that i know who ditched their poor quality gh and switched to igf and are getting BETTER results. Like Overload said, you get what you pay for. (Surprisingly mgf is pretty cheap but effective and igf isn't that expensive either). But generic gh vs pharm is like night and day.