Bbing and "Not Changing"

[Parker]

It's been stated that Dex hasn't changed in 10 yrs, and the same was said about Shawn Ray. Even though, both during their careers kept a small but steady progression in size, yet still were consistent with conditioning. I guess that is the "not changing" part.

Those bodybuilder who do "change" dramatically, end up looking worse as time goes on. This was evident with Nasser, who looked detailed and crisp earlier on. And Flex, who went from 216 to a bloated 240ish, and Ronnie Coleman.
I understand that progression is natural, but this whole big jump in weight, actually maybe a part of what is killing bbing. In essence, bbing is killing bbing. The need to see the freaks, and the bbers trying to deliver on that, ends up ruining bbing.
When it should be taking the product (the Bber) and refining it over time (Where you see small changes), which leads to a more quality product.
And this is shown by many of the comments on how many of the bbers looked their best during their Rookie yrs, and as time went on, they developed guts, and health problems.

Pro Bodybuilding as it is now, is responsible for its own death.

[simon]

I don't know what it exactly is but I attended the Arnold Classic in I think 91.  I saw Benfatto, Munzer, Paris, Taylor, Momo among others.   I haven't really watched the show since then.  Last nite I was able to sit and watch the webcast and it was literally disgusting what was presented onstage with the exception on Nunn, Cedric and Dex.  Pro BB has become a complete joke if this is still considerd the 2nd biggest competition of the year.  RIP IFBB. 

[Bad Boy Dazza]

Yes but even Dex looks like crap compared to them.  His tortoise stomach and not so V shape..

I don't know what it exactly is but I attended the Arnold Classic in I think 91.  I saw Benfatto, Munzer, Paris, Taylor, Momo among others.   I haven't really watched the show since then.  Last nite I was able to sit and watch the webcast and it was literally disgusting what was presented onstage with the exception on Nunn, Cedric and Dex.  Pro BB has become a complete joke if this is still considerd the 2nd biggest competition of the year.  RIP IFBB. 

[littleguns]

Shawn Ray said in an interview from start of his career to the finish he put on 8 lbs....

[Bad Boy Dazza]

Shawn Ray said in an interview from start of his career to the finish he put on 8 lbs....

Clearly a natural trainer.

[Cleanest Natural]

Yes but even Dex looks like crap compared to them.  His tortoise stomach and not so V shape..

agreed

[simon]

I would have Nunn in 1st and Cedric 2nd with placings reversed if Cedric was in better condition.  No bloat, no guts, no exceptions.

[Parker]

Shawn Ray said in an interview from start of his career to the finish he put on 8 lbs....

he was 201.5 at his first Olympia. And around 218 at his last.

[njflex]

Shawn Ray said in an interview from start of his career to the finish he put on 8 lbs....

when he nationals in 87 as a lightheavy he looked like a polished pro already at 21 had all tools/look incredible..

[anabolichalo]

it's the retard aka lou ferrigno mindset

thinking the public goes wild for the mass monsters and is unimpressed by aesthetics

nothing could be further from the truth

[Grape Ape]

it's the retard aka lou ferrigno mindset

thinking the public goes wild for the mass monsters and is unimpressed by aesthetics

nothing could be further from the truth

The truth is the "public" never gave a shit about pro bb, and they still don't.

But the micro subset that did, always paid their money to see the mass monsters.

[anabolichalo]

The truth is the "public" never gave a shit about pro bb, and they still don't.

But the micro subset that did, always paid their money to see the mass monsters.

what i mean is that joe public would much rather look like a physique competitor than a top ifbb bodybuilder

[Parker]

The truth is the "public" never gave a shit about pro bb, and they still don't.

But the micro subset that did, always paid their money to see the mass monsters.

like you said, massive Pro bbers only impress "us", or the followers of bbing.
Massive bank accounts, accomplsihments and material wealth impress the mainstream.

Sadly, as the mainstream becomes more narcissistic and vain the more they step into the realm of bbing...but doing it the gen nothingness way---drugs, drugs, drugs.

[anabolichalo]

like you said, massive Pro bbers only impress "us", or the followers of bbing.
Massive bank accounts, accomplsihments and material wealth impress the mainstream.

Sadly, as the mainstream becomes more narcissistic and vain the more they step into the realm of bbing...but doing it the gen nothingness way---drugs, drugs, drugs.

as a delusional teenager i used to think being a massive bodybuilder with no money would be better than being a twink with tons of money

[Method101]

myostatin blockers will be the next thing, after that bodybuilding will stagnate again untill they find more drugs. Sprinting is the same.

[Parker]

myostatin blockers will be the next thing, after that bodybuilding will stagnate again untill they find more drugs. Sprinting is the same.

the problem with Myostatin "blockers" is that Myostatin is a limiter for muscle growth. The muscles do not get too big so as to render them useless.
If you look at animals that have a natural Myostatin deficiency, like the Belgian Blue, the muscles are so massive, that they are pretty much useless. I had also read that they sometimes have issues with their internal organs as well as their reproductive organs---all attributed to the massive muscle that they carry.
Not to mention the heart must work harder to pump more blood.

Unlimited muscle may sound cool, and having 28 inch muscular arms on a 5'8-5'11 frame may look cool, but really what is the price?

[Grape Ape]

what i mean is that joe public would much rather look like a physique competitor than a top ifbb bodybuilder

Who cares?  It's a niche.

[Irongrip400]

And what happens when you take it back to a Zane like physique as the winning shape? How long before someone decides to get bigger to take the title? It will always be about being bigger, until they start some sort of requirement like a chest to waist ratio. A way to keep it with some bit of aesthetics.

[falco]

Make the vacuum pose mandatory and gutted bodybuilder will vanish.

[anabolichalo]

Make the vacuum pose mandatory and gutted bodybuilder will vanish.

interesting idzea

[che]

Don't worry guys ,it may take a while but  the IFBB is changing the judging criteria as we speak.



IFBB ADVISORY NOTICE 2005

Date: April 13, 2005
From: IFBB Professional Division
To: All IFBB Professional Members
Re: SYMMETRY & NATURAL AESTHETICS


Montreal, Canada, April 13, 2005: With a mandate from President Ben Weider, the Professional Committee and a team of expert advisors recently evaluated the issues associated with muscular development, such as size, shape, density, separation and definition, in relation to symmetry and natural aesthetics.

Certain objective criteria are involved in assessing symmetry and natural aesthetics in competitive bodybuilding. Of great significance are the qualities of balance, proportion and the overall “flow” of the physique, including classic attributes such as a dramatic “V-taper”; from broad shoulders and a wide back to a streamlined waist and a flat, muscular abdomen. In addition, there should be balance between upper and lower body development, and harmony between the left and right sides of the body. These characteristics have been the hallmark of a bodybuilder’s physique for decades, and it is the intent of this Advisory Notice to reaffirm their significance.

Distended abdomens and distorted muscles negatively impact upon symmetry and natural aesthetics and, therefore, detract from the overall physique. Athletes and judges are advised that muscle size at the expense of symmetry and natural aesthetics will not be assessed favourably.

All inquiries regarding the IFBB Professional Division should be directed to:

Jim Manion
Chairman
IFBB Professional Division
P.O. Box 3224
Pittsburgh , PA 15230

Toll Free: 1-866-304-4322
Tel: (412) 276-5027
Fax: (412) 281-0470
E-mail: ifbbprodivision@aol.com

[Parker]

Make the vacuum pose mandatory and gutted bodybuilder will vanish.

Its funny how Lee Haney could do a vacuum, Chris Cormier at 250 could do a vacuum, and even Vic Richards could do a vacuum, yet you rarely see ones like Dex or others try and pull it off.
Melvin Anthony in his "Marvelous" vid told John Brown that he could t do a vacuum and that he would try by laying on the floor and still could do the pose.

[erics]

And what happens when you take it back to a Zane like physique as the winning shape? How long before someone decides to get bigger to take the title? It will always be about being bigger, until they start some sort of requirement like a chest to waist ratio. A way to keep it with some bit of aesthetics.

Mass is never the problem. It's the lack of aesthetics that is the problem.

The basic requirement is for the judging to reward quality physiques according to the rules.

That's it. That's all the IFBB have to do.

Drugs are not the problem. They've been taking boatloads of whatever was available since day one.

Once the judges start rewarding aesthetics and penalising competitors for ruining their aesthetics, then bodybuilders will change their physiques accordingly. To penalise a competitor, adds points for each score for bloated guts etc etc. Make the points system live too so that the competitor and fans can see what is going on, on stage.

Also, if a judge, official or any other commentator on bodybuilding doesn't understand aesthetics, they shouldn't be judging or commentating.

[usmcdevildoc]

myostatin blockers will be the next thing, after that bodybuilding will stagnate again untill they find more drugs. Sprinting is the same.

BRO-- you are absolutely correct.  There are several mystatin inhibitors, the favored being follistatin.  Follistatin combined with IGF1 leads to incredible gains in muscle mass if done correctly.  The issue is how much needs to be injected? How long does the stuff stay around?  Theoretically it becomes systemic.  I did some original work @ Hopkins on myostatin inhibitors and their effect on muscular dystrophy.  The IgF1 and IGF2 have stories of their own. 

Bro you are dead on.

  DOC
Lift, fuck, make money

[usmcdevildoc]

the problem with Myostatin "blockers" is that Myostatin is a limiter for muscle growth. The muscles do not get too big so as to render them useless.
If you look at animals that have a natural Myostatin deficiency, like the Belgian Blue, the muscles are so massive, that they are pretty much useless. I had also read that they sometimes have issues with their internal organs as well as their reproductive organs---all attributed to the massive muscle that they carry.
Not to mention the heart must work harder to pump more blood.

Unlimited muscle may sound cool, and having 28 inch muscular arms on a 5'8-5'11 frame may look cool, but really what is the price?

NOT COMPLETELY TRUE BRO.  The myostatin (injected) inhibits the breakdown of muscle, so that the muscle continues to hypertrophy with exercise.  THERE IS NO LIMITATION ON MUSCLE GROWTH.
Wrote about this some time ago.



DOC

Lift, fuck, make money