Author Topic: After 2 weeks in Europe  (Read 3652 times)

andreisdaman

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2013, 10:20:16 PM »
Andre unemployed?

nope....employed...math teacher/social worker.

24KT

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2013, 11:26:02 PM »
Good post..... I do believe our political system and social system is far superoir to the Europeans but I have always had this feeling that we Americans have been brainwashed into thinking that we should work so hard and settle for one weeks vacation every year (two if youre lucky)....my family is from the caribbean and they too take two hour breaks every day from 12pm to 2pm for siesta.....I was shocked at this when I visited....I'm just saying that we as Americans seem to be working MUCH HARDER than the rest of the world for not that much more benefit....I wish I could spend more time with family, have more time for myself and my hobbies and be able to get together and meet with friends everyday....maybe this in and of itself would improve our quality of life?..plus you make a good point about being able to travel more...that would be awesome....

Also to pay a little more so we could all retire at 50? Count me in!

Andre, why do you believe the political & social systems are superior to those of Europe?
w

Hugo Chavez

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2013, 04:23:46 AM »
So after a 15 year hiatus, I returned to Europe. My first time around I went to Germany and France. This time I visited Spain and France.

A few observations:


this thread stinks of arrogant bastard.

George Whorewell

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2013, 05:01:30 AM »
this thread stinks of arrogant bastard.

Says the bloated corpse of a central American dictator.

Better to stink of arrogance than smell like death.

I don't know if its worse to be Hugo Chavez, or attempt to emulate him on an internet message board.

I'll let someone less arrogant figure that one out.

George Whorewell

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2013, 05:08:13 AM »
Thanks for your post. I am pretty right wing, but didn't find my European trip as bad as you did, I just accepted it for what it is. Assimilate to the host population. I went in November/December of 2011 for my honeymoon to Italy and Germany for a week each.  I had a fucking blast. Go somewhere knowing you're going to spend a shitload of money. I don't think we spent under $200 a meal when we went out to dinner, but you just go in saying "fuck it, when will I be back again?" So live it up. I went to Rome, Florence, Venice, Verona, Munich and Berlin and only saw one fast food restaraunt. The waiters that I dealt with, legitimately cared Bout you. For instance, when we ate at a nice place in Venice, we sat down at 715 (we had 730 reservations, and the place was dead, they turned people away and I couldn't believe it. It eventually filled up with every seat taken, so I realize why they turned the couple away). The waiter plated and deboned our fish for us(try getting a $2.13 hr college kid to do that) talked to us, and after 3 hours there, never once tried to chase us off. We sat and enjoyed our food wherever we were, which is why it's so expensive, they expect you to stay. The folks in this place, Spektakle, in Munich(bartender and our waitress) actually let us stay past closing, and we talked about bands and all sorts of other stuff. It was genuinely awesome. Berlin, the people were a bit colder, but it was still cool.

I can see what you say about the socialism aspect of things, but you can't change their way of living, as its not your place to do so. Just enjoy it while you can, and see it for what it is, the actual birthplace of our culture/colony. And I disagree about the culture part, I actually felt smarter and a renaissance when I got back. I am going for 17 days this Christmas. We are doing Rome, Vienna, Munich and Paris with day trips planned to Salzburg, Nuremberg, and possibly London. I plan on packing a lot of money, and a great attitude(no homo) and have been taking German lessons as well. I'm stoked and can't wait to go back, and I'm sorry you had a bad time.  I'm actually planning on grabbing a beer with a getbigger while in Austria, so anyone else on my itinerary, feel free to hit me up, I'll buy you a beer.

I honestly couldn't care less if Euro Zone decides to replace all of its current leadership with squirrels. I don't want to change their way of life. My only point is that they can keep it. I didn't spend my vacation time ranting in English to the natives about how pathetic Europe is.   Also, my experiences in Europe are limited to 3 countries. I haven't been to Italy and I know for a fact that some of the European countries outside of the Euro zone are great places to live and visit. 

George Whorewell

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2013, 05:16:55 AM »
Good post..... I do believe our political system and social system is far superoir to the Europeans but I have always had this feeling that we Americans have been brainwashed into thinking that we should work so hard and settle for one weeks vacation every year (two if youre lucky)....my family is from the caribbean and they too take two hour breaks every day from 12pm to 2pm for siesta.....I was shocked at this when I visited....I'm just saying that we as Americans seem to be working MUCH HARDER than the rest of the world for not that much more benefit....I wish I could spend more time with family, have more time for myself and my hobbies and be able to get together and meet with friends everyday....maybe this in and of itself would improve our quality of life?..plus you make a good point about being able to travel more...that would be awesome....

Also to pay a little more so we could all retire at 50? Count me in!

Andre, if you're a math teacher-- please explain how our economy could possibly withstand duplicating the ass backward European approach to economics? Government workers in America (for the most part) don't retire until age 65 and usually only get half their salary+ social security. The government workforce is smaller than the private sector and as it stands now the country can't afford to pay them. What do you think will happen if the retirement age drops to 50? And just pay a little bit more? Dude, wake the fuck up and smell the coffee. You'll always end up paying "just a little bit more" to expand the welfare state until it collapses under its own weight. Look at the world around you. The socialist model fails every single time because there is never enough money. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2013, 05:35:14 AM »
Andre, if you're a math teacher-- please explain how our economy could possibly withstand duplicating the ass backward European approach to economics? Government workers in America (for the most part) don't retire until age 65 and usually only get half their salary+ social security. The government workforce is smaller than the private sector and as it stands now the country can't afford to pay them. What do you think will happen if the retirement age drops to 50? And just pay a little bit more? Dude, wake the fuck up and smell the coffee. You'll always end up paying "just a little bit more" to expand the welfare state until it collapses under its own weight. Look at the world around you. The socialist model fails every single time because there is never enough money. 

Andre lives in Mott Haven and still thinks socialism works.   ::)  ::)

LurkerNoMore

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2013, 06:46:41 AM »
When traveling to foreign countries as often as I do, I never even bother to pay attention to their political climate.  I won't be living, investing or voting there so I could care less.  One thing that I have noticed in those places that universal health care has going for it is that in those countries the emphasis is put on it being highly PREVENTIVE care.  Unlike here where most people see a doctor only when they have a problem, most (or rather most of the smart ones) in the universal care system see docs regularly (along with massage therapists, acupuncture specialists, ART therapists, etc..) before they have a problem they need a physician or the hospital for. 

If you ever visit places like Capri, Amalfi, Corsica, Venice, etc..  (places where the residents walk almost everywhere) it is  amazing to see people in their 60s that still look like they are in their early 40s. 

Their vacation time allotment is also great.  Which is the only reason I took my current employer over the other two that were interested in me.  I have been here 7 years and have 6 weeks annual now.  I asked for 6 weeks during the hiring process.  They offered me 5 weeks to start and an extra week for every 5 years I worked.  The second one offered 2 weeks per year plus and extra year for every 5 years I worked, and the third one offered a basic 2 week per year and an extra week every 10 years that I was employed.  (Needless to say they didn't even get a call back from me)

andreisdaman

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2013, 06:47:26 AM »
Andre, why do you believe the political & social systems are superior to those of Europe?

I do believe that our system here is far superior in terms of social stratification, upward mobility, and just our freedom in general.....I think its much easier to rise to the top here than in Europe since Europe is more of a class society than we are....I think over there you tend to stay in the bracket you are born into.....I also hate teh parliamentary system where you have so many different parties who all want a say....I much prefer the stark contrast of the two-party system....I also think we are just so much more free here....

But as I stated..I do think we need to begin examining the way our lives are structured over here.....so much work and so little time....and we do need to do more to take care of each other (such as with the universal healthcare)...and again I would love to retire at 50...but of course I would wrok another job or start a business

andreisdaman

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2013, 06:50:35 AM »
Andre, if you're a math teacher-- please explain how our economy could possibly withstand duplicating the ass backward European approach to economics? Government workers in America (for the most part) don't retire until age 65 and usually only get half their salary+ social security. The government workforce is smaller than the private sector and as it stands now the country can't afford to pay them. What do you think will happen if the retirement age drops to 50? And just pay a little bit more? Dude, wake the fuck up and smell the coffee. You'll always end up paying "just a little bit more" to expand the welfare state until it collapses under its own weight. Look at the world around you. The socialist model fails every single time because there is never enough money. 

the point you bring up is the age-old dilemma for socialist governments...how to take care of everyone and pay for it at the same time.....I honestly don't have an answer....no one does which is why socialism in practice is very tough to pull off...and when I said retire at 50, I was just musing...thats too early...but 55.....I think is doable....but we have to rein in massive entitlements.....and really spend every dollar wisely to make that happen

andreisdaman

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2013, 06:54:51 AM »
When traveling to foreign countries as often as I do, I never even bother to pay attention to their political climate.  I won't be living, investing or voting there so I could care less.  One thing that I have noticed in those places that universal health care has going for it is that in those countries the emphasis is put on it being highly PREVENTIVE care.  Unlike here where most people see a doctor only when they have a problem, most (or rather most of the smart ones) in the universal care system see docs regularly (along with massage therapists, acupuncture specialists, ART therapists, etc..) before they have a problem they need a physician or the hospital for. 

If you ever visit places like Capri, Amalfi, Corsica, Venice, etc..  (places where the residents walk almost everywhere) it is  amazing to see people in their 60s that still look like they are in their early 40s. 

Their vacation time allotment is also great.  Which is the only reason I took my current employer over the other two that were interested in me.  I have been here 7 years and have 6 weeks annual now.  I asked for 6 weeks during the hiring process.  They offered me 5 weeks to start and an extra week for every 5 years I worked.  The second one offered 2 weeks per year plus and extra year for every 5 years I worked, and the third one offered a basic 2 week per year and an extra week every 10 years that I was employed.  (Needless to say they didn't even get a call back from me)

Agreed....in order for us to change our way of life and to become more socialist, we would have to be smart with how we spend money...and preventive care would make healthcare so much more efficient....as with making those people do public service who get welfare..maybe four hours per day cleaning parks, sweeping streets, cleaning out abandoned lots, etc...

Soul Crusher

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2013, 06:56:19 AM »
Agreed....in order for us to change our way of life and to become more socialist, we would have to be smart with how we spend money...and preventive care would make healthcare so much more efficient....as with making those people do public service who get welfare..maybe four hours per day cleaning parks, sweeping streets, cleaning out abandoned lots, etc...

How about you move to a socialist country and leave the rest of us alone. 

LurkerNoMore

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2013, 07:24:48 AM »
Agreed....in order for us to change our way of life and to become more socialist, we would have to be smart with how we spend money...and preventive care would make healthcare so much more efficient....as with making those people do public service who get welfare..maybe four hours per day cleaning parks, sweeping streets, cleaning out abandoned lots, etc...

The problem our country has with how this could work is that the people here (the ones contributing the biggest strain on society) are just lazy fucks.  It isn't a political issue or a left or right personality and lifestyle because the lazy fucks encompass both parties.  We have the best healthcare in the world available.  However if it were free, getting these people to get off their asses for preventive care is going to be impossible.  Hell you could send mobile vans to these people's homes and they still wouldn't even bother to open the door or make any effort to improve themselves.  Preventive care costs very little up front and certainly saves a ton of money down the road before a little problem turns into a ER/hospital one.  But those savings and the benefits will never materialize as long as people refuse to take advantage of it. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2013, 11:52:45 AM »
Millions of Europeans Require Red Cross Food Aid
 Spiegel.de ^

Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2013 7:47:43 AM by DeaconBenjamin

European Union families and individuals are increasingly reliant on charity organizations like the Red Cross for basic needs like food, water and shelter. While Germany is relatively unaffected, unemployment and austerity in countries like Spain make the problem even more severe.

Two-thirds of national Red Cross societies within the European Union distribute food aid -- a sign that the economic crisis in Europe has an alarming effect on poverty.

Yves Daccord, Director-General of the International Committee of the Red Cross, said that the scope of food distribution is the highest since the end of World War II.

The Spanish Red Cross supports 3 million Spaniards with food aid. Daccord said Spanish needs are so great that the organization solicits donations for domestic and foreign operations.

Middle Class Hard-Hit By Crisis

The International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies provides more detail on the food need. Last year, the Spanish Red Cross provided 73 million pounds of groceries to the needy. It also supported 21,500 people with water and electricity, or with financial aid in paying rent.

The organization's counterpart in Romania has operated a donation-based food distribution program since 2009. Three million people live in absolute poverty, according to the aid group, a figure that constitutes 14 percent of the country's total population. The relative poverty rate in Romania is also shockingly high, at 40 percent. Last year, the Romanian Red Cross distributed more than 1.1 million pounds of food to more than 81,000 needy families.

The IFRC also noted a rise in poverty in previously middle-class families and individuals. In Italy, the group noted a rise in the homeless population includes "separated and divorced men who end up impoverished or on the streets as they struggle to maintain themselves while keeping up child support and alimony payments."


(Excerpt) Read more at spiegel.de ...

B_B_C

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2013, 12:42:41 PM »
So after a 15 year hiatus, ....


seems you spent some time effort and money to keep your mind closed. Would it not have been easier cheaper and less stressful to just keep it closed at home ?
c

24KT

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2013, 02:34:16 PM »
I do believe that our system here is far superior in terms of social stratification, upward mobility, and just our freedom in general.....I think its much easier to rise to the top here than in Europe since Europe is more of a class society than we are....I think over there you tend to stay in the bracket you are born into.....I also hate teh parliamentary system where you have so many different parties who all want a say....I much prefer the stark contrast of the two-party system....I also think we are just so much more free here....

Interesting. And what do you consider as 'rising to the top'? Do you mean financially, socially, politically?

C'mon Andre, do you really believe the US 2 party system is superior to a multi-party parliamentary style system wherein all voices are heard, and co-operation is a MUST? I would think given what's been taking place lately, the merits of having a true alternative would be self-evident.

More free how?  :o

I think there is more a perception of freedom, because that's what everyone is programmed to believe, but look around? Are you really free... or do you simply have the illusion of freedom?
  • Can you drive without permission of the state, or do you need permission or license to do so?
  • Can you marry without permission, or do you need permission in the form of a marriage license to do so?
  • Can you choose to buy & consume a large sugary drink if you want? ok, but look how close you came.
  • Can you choose to NOT have health insurance?
  • Are you living within 100 miles of a US border or coastline, designated as a Constitution-free zone wherein your rights are denied?


Quote
But as I stated..I do think we need to begin examining the way our lives are structured over here.....so much work and so little time....and we do need to do more to take care of each other (such as with the universal healthcare)...and again I would love to retire at 50...but of course I would wrok another job or start a business

That's the problem... our lives are far too frequently "structured"  for us rather than by us

w

24KT

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2013, 02:48:19 PM »
Agreed....in order for us to change our way of life and to become more socialist, we would have to be smart with how we spend money...and preventive care would make healthcare so much more efficient....as with making those people do public service who get welfare..maybe four hours per day cleaning parks, sweeping streets, cleaning out abandoned lots, etc...

I like the fact that you said "smart with how we spend money", as opposed to "smart with how we spend our money. I think that's one of the biggest problem, ...inappropriate spending, and the mistaken belief that the people's money is actually the government's to spend. Even today, people are looking at Social Security as some form of government benefit. They've even changed the name to "Federal Benefit payment" when it is infact your own money that was taken from you and spent without your permission.

Pay attention to your next Social Security income, whether you get a check or an electronic deposit....note what it is now called. Have you noticed, your Social Security check is now referred to as a "Federal Benefit Payment" ??? The government is now referring to your Social Security checks as a “Federal Benefit Payment.” This isn’t a benefit – its earned income! Not only did you all contribute to Social Security but your employers did too. It totaled 15% of your income before taxes. If you averaged $30K per year over your working life, that's close to $180,000 invested in Social Security. If you calculate the future value of your monthly investment in social security ($375/month, including both you and your employer’s contributions) at a meager 1% interest rate compounded monthly, after 40 years of working you'd have more than $1.3+ million dollars saved! This is your personal investment. Upon retirement, if you took out only 3% per year, you'd receive $39,318 per year, or $3,277 per month. That’s almost three times more than today’s average Social Security benefit of $1,230 per month, according to the Social Security Administration (Google it - it’s a fact).

And your retirement fund would last more than 33 years (until you're 98 if you retired at age 65)! I can only imagine how much better most average-income people could live in retirement if your government had just invested your money in low-risk interest-earning accounts. Instead, the folks in Washington pulled off a bigger Ponzi scheme than Bernie Madoff ever did. They took your money and used it elsewhere. They “forgot” that it was YOUR money they were taking. They didn’t have a referendum to ask you if you wanted to lend the money to them. And they didn’t pay interest on the debt they assumed. And recently, they’ve told you that the money won’t support you for very much longer. But is it your fault they misused your investments? And now, to add insult to injury, they’re calling it a “benefit,” as if you never worked to earn every penny of it. Just because they “borrowed” the money, doesn't mean that your investments were a charity!

As for making people do public service who get welfare ... that's simply another form of slavery imo.
I think a social safety net should be just that... a net to catch those who fall, ...and help them to fly agin, but it appears the way these programs are administered, it has become more of a net to catch people and ensure they remain caught.
w

George Whorewell

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2013, 03:20:55 PM »

seems you spent some time effort and money to keep your mind closed. Would it not have been easier cheaper and less stressful to just keep it closed at home ?

Telling the truth is being close minded? I suppose I should have returned home and purchased a Che Guevara tee shirt and Obama / Biden bumper sticker to prove to the world how open minded I am.  ::)

In that same vein, you could have saved some time and effort by not bothering to post a response in my close minded thread.

Hope this helps.

B_B_C

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2013, 03:23:36 PM »
Telling the truth is being close minded? I suppose I should have returned home and purchased a Che Guevara tee shirt and Obama / Biden bumper sticker to prove to the world how open minded I am.  ::)
In that same vein, you could have saved some time and effort by not bothering to post a response in my close minded thread.
Hope this helps.

are you always this charming or did you make a special effort for this occasion?
c

George Whorewell

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2013, 03:30:29 PM »
are you always this charming or did you make a special effort for this occasion?

You must be new here.

Soul Crusher

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #45 on: March 12, 2013, 03:31:13 PM »
BUMP for Socialism! 

Millions of Europeans Require Red Cross Food Aid
 Spiegel.de ^

Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2013 7:47:43 AM by DeaconBenjamin

European Union families and individuals are increasingly reliant on charity organizations like the Red Cross for basic needs like food, water and shelter. While Germany is relatively unaffected, unemployment and austerity in countries like Spain make the problem even more severe.

Two-thirds of national Red Cross societies within the European Union distribute food aid -- a sign that the economic crisis in Europe has an alarming effect on poverty.

Yves Daccord, Director-General of the International Committee of the Red Cross, said that the scope of food distribution is the highest since the end of World War II.

The Spanish Red Cross supports 3 million Spaniards with food aid. Daccord said Spanish needs are so great that the organization solicits donations for domestic and foreign operations.

Middle Class Hard-Hit By Crisis

The International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies provides more detail on the food need. Last year, the Spanish Red Cross provided 73 million pounds of groceries to the needy. It also supported 21,500 people with water and electricity, or with financial aid in paying rent.

The organization's counterpart in Romania has operated a donation-based food distribution program since 2009. Three million people live in absolute poverty, according to the aid group, a figure that constitutes 14 percent of the country's total population. The relative poverty rate in Romania is also shockingly high, at 40 percent. Last year, the Romanian Red Cross distributed more than 1.1 million pounds of food to more than 81,000 needy families.

The IFRC also noted a rise in poverty in previously middle-class families and individuals. In Italy, the group noted a rise in the homeless population includes "separated and divorced men who end up impoverished or on the streets as they struggle to maintain themselves while keeping up child support and alimony payments."


(Excerpt) Read more at spiegel.de ...


24KT

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #46 on: March 12, 2013, 04:10:47 PM »
Millions of Europeans Require Red Cross Food Aid
 Spiegel.de ^

Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2013 7:47:43 AM by DeaconBenjamin

European Union families and individuals are increasingly reliant on charity organizations like the Red Cross for basic needs like food, water and shelter. While Germany is relatively unaffected, unemployment and austerity in countries like Spain make the problem even more severe.

Two-thirds of national Red Cross societies within the European Union distribute food aid -- a sign that the economic crisis in Europe has an alarming effect on poverty.

Yves Daccord, Director-General of the International Committee of the Red Cross, said that the scope of food distribution is the highest since the end of World War II.

The Spanish Red Cross supports 3 million Spaniards with food aid. Daccord said Spanish needs are so great that the organization solicits donations for domestic and foreign operations.

Middle Class Hard-Hit By Crisis

The International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies provides more detail on the food need. Last year, the Spanish Red Cross provided 73 million pounds of groceries to the needy. It also supported 21,500 people with water and electricity, or with financial aid in paying rent.

The organization's counterpart in Romania has operated a donation-based food distribution program since 2009. Three million people live in absolute poverty, according to the aid group, a figure that constitutes 14 percent of the country's total population. The relative poverty rate in Romania is also shockingly high, at 40 percent. Last year, the Romanian Red Cross distributed more than 1.1 million pounds of food to more than 81,000 needy families.

The IFRC also noted a rise in poverty in previously middle-class families and individuals. In Italy, the group noted a rise in the homeless population includes "separated and divorced men who end up impoverished or on the streets as they struggle to maintain themselves while keeping up child support and alimony payments."


(Excerpt) Read more at spiegel.de ...


All this poverty & lack, and not because Europeans weren't working themselves to death... but because their countries leaders betrayed them, and put them on the hook for debts that are not their own. The problem is not that they are lazy as many in the west imply... the problem is they have been enslaved by bankers, ...as is transfolding in the west. The USA is Greece x 1000
w

24KT

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #47 on: March 12, 2013, 04:16:36 PM »
BUMP for Socialism! 


But I bet you didn't have a problem with socialism during Hurricane Sandy? or did you? ???

w

Skip8282

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #48 on: March 12, 2013, 04:33:09 PM »
All this poverty & lack, and not because Europeans weren't working themselves to death... but because their countries leaders betrayed them, and put them on the hook for debts that are not their own. The problem is not that they are lazy as many in the west imply... the problem is they have been enslaved by bankers, ...as is transfolding in the west. The USA is Greece x 1000



Sorry, spent too much of my life growing up in Europe to buy this bullshit.  They are lazy.  Not maybe.  Not kinda.  They are flat out lazy.

Irongrip400

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Re: After 2 weeks in Europe
« Reply #49 on: March 12, 2013, 04:58:08 PM »
Wtf, I thought this thread was about euro tripping? Lets bring this back to life with talk of previous trips.  I am actually looking into buying a two bedroom place over there, but am not sure so I am planning more visits. Place is awesome, and if you don't feel smarter when you get back, you're either doing it wrong or you forgot to pack your brain.