Gun Control working great in Chicago! ! ! ! !

[Soul Crusher]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/11/6-month-old-shot-multiple_n_2854326.html


Ridiculous.  these people live like animals 

[Straw Man]

What ! ?

Gun laws haven't eliminated all gun violence?

That's hard to believe

[Soul Crusher]

What ! ?

Gun laws haven't eliminated all gun violence?

That's hard to believe

Why /  That is the bs peddled by the likes of Obama Feinswine and Ratlosi 

[MCWAY]

What ! ?

Gun laws haven't eliminated all gun violence?

That's hard to believe

Even harder to believe that the president's hometown, run by his former Chief of Staff, has much of the same bans that he wants to impose nationwide. They haven't created the gun-violence-free shangri-la, there. Yet libs think that imposing such mess nationwide is going to curb violence across the country.

[Straw Man]

Why /  That is the bs peddled by the likes of Obama Feinswine and Ratlosi 

No one ever said gun legislation would eliminate all gun violence.

why do you feel the need to lie so much?

[Straw Man]

Even harder to believe that the president's hometown, run by his former Chief of Staff, has much of the same bans that he wants to impose nationwide. They haven't created the gun-violence-free shangri-la, there. Yet libs think that imposing such mess nationwide is going to curb violence across the country.

Im sure you believe that speed limit laws prevent all speeding too

[Straw Man]

This just in, new study reveals that seatbelts and air bags have not eliminated all injury and death from auto accidents.

[Soul Crusher]

This just in, new study reveals that seatbelts and air bags have not eliminated all injury and death from auto accidents.

And what has strictest gun laws prevented or deterred?  Nothing at all. 

[MCWAY]

Im sure you believe that speed limit laws prevent all speeding too

AAAHHHH!! The usual excuse-making for failed liberal policies, particularly as they relate to Obama and his crew.

Nobody claimed the laws are perfect. But, those that Obama and his supporters want aren't even "C-" level.

Chicago HAS locally what the libs want nationwide, when it comes to gun laws. Yet, that hellhole is the murder capital of the country (or doing an awfully good acting job, pretending to be).

[MCWAY]

And what has strictest gun laws prevented or deterred?  Nothing at all.  

Like them "Gun-Free" Zones. Or banning kids from bringing cupcakes with army men on top. Or suspending kids for making their fingers in the shape of a gun.

Or banning a pink "Hello Kitty" bubble gun.

Or, here's a doozy: Booting a kid out of school for eating away parts of his toaster pastry, fashioning the remainder of it to look like a gun.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2013/03/05/pop-tart-gun-suspension-seriously-folks/

I thought Mark Steyn was goofing around, when he mentioned this earlier today.

[Straw Man]

AAAHHHH!! The usual excuse-making for failed liberal policies, particularly as they relate to Obama and his crew.

Nobody claimed the laws are perfect. But, those that Obama and his supporters want aren't even "C-" level.

Chicago HAS locally what the libs want nationwide, when it comes to gun laws. Yet, that hellhole is the murder capital of the country (or doing an awfully good acting job, pretending to be).

typical excuse made by Repubs

if it's not not working perfectly somewhere else then it's a complete failure and can't work anywore and furthermore is somehow proof that no effort should be made to improve

[Soul Crusher]

typical excuse made by Repubs

if it's not not working perfectly somewhere else then it's a complete failure and can't work anywore and furthermore is somehow proof that no effort should be made to improve

States w less gun control are generally safer so in my mind that is a sign what to do. 

No - we dont need new laws - we need Thug Control - not gun control. 

[Straw Man]

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/02/15/1599631/no-chicago-isnt-proof-that-gun-regulation-doesnt-work/
No, Chicago Isn’t Proof That Gun Regulation Doesn’t Work
By Zack Beauchamp on Feb 15, 2013 at 1:30 pm


Friday afternoon, President Obama will speak on gun violence prevention in Chicago. Charles C.W. Cooke, writing for National Review, previews the conservative spin, arguing that because Chicago has a high murder rate and relatively strict gun laws, it “defies belief” that the President would defend gun regulations there.
But Cooke and the other conservatives who will invariably make this argument today are wrong. Chicago’s gun laws aren’t the cause of the recent uptick in violence, nor does it prove that gun regulations are ineffectual. If anything, it underscores the need for tighter federal laws.

Most significantly, it is important to understand that Chicago is not an island. Although Chicago has historically had strict gun laws, laws in the surrounding parts of Illinois were much laxer — enabling middlemen to supply the criminals in Chicago with guns they purchased elsewhere. Forty three percent of the guns seized by law enforcement in Chicago were originally purchased in other parts of Illinois. And even if the state had stricter gun laws, Illinois is not an island either. The remaining fifty seven percent of Chicago guns all came from out of state, most significantly from nearby Indiana and distant Mississippi — neither of which are known for their strict gun laws.
It’s also important to put Chicago’s very recent increase in gun violence in perspective. Data from the University of Chicago Crime Lab’s Harold Pollack shows that this uptick, while certainly worrying, isn’t anything like a return to the historic peaks during America’s crime wave. Pollack notes that “Chicago ranks 79th on Neighborhood Scout’s list of the 100 most dangerous places to live in America…the idea that Chicago faces a unique or unprecedented rise in homicides is incorrect. Our problems are all too familiar and chronic throughout much of urban America.” Chicago, following the national trend, has experienced a significant downturn in homicides in the past decade and a half:

Chicago had an outright ban on handguns from 1982 until 2010, when the Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional. So there’s no reason to believe that strict regulations on gun ownership were responsible for a spike in gun homicides in 2012, two years after Chicago was forced to loosen its gun laws. Moreover, there’s simply no credible evidence that wider gun ownership or looser gun laws reduce crime.
So why did Chicago’s homicide rate increase in 2012? Pollack says “there’s no simple answer.” But he points to three factors are particularly important: escalating gang conflict as a consequence of police crackdowns and shifting gang territory, outdated law enforcement practices, and — yes — access to guns.
According to Pollack, access to guns significantly increase the risk that a conflict between two gang members escalates to homicide, as weapons designed to kill people (shockingly) make it easier to kill people. Chicago’s streets are flooded with guns: it has roughly six times as many guns as New York City per capita, despite its restrictive laws. So if gang conflict escalates, and the gangs have easy access to guns, the homicide rate should rise. This explanation fits with the fact that 87 percent of Chicago homicides in 2012 were gun-related. New York, by contrast, did not experience a surge in homicides in 2012.

The guns that fueled this fire came from a small number of individuals bringing guns into the city. A study of Chicago’s gun market (which, incidentally, concluded that tight enforcement of Chicago’s gun ban and restrictions significantly disrupted illegal gun markets) found that most of guns in high-crime neighborhoods entered through a small, tight network of suppliers and middlemen: “Gun suppliers report that 60-80% of their sales are negotiated through brokers (we assume the 80% figure) and by our own estimates gun suppliers account for around half of all gun sales in the GB community.” Because most criminals weren’t comfortable going out of their neighborhoods to buy guns, and Chicago had no gun stores in the city, they relied on this network to get them guns from outside of Chicago.

As explained above, the fact that suppliers could acquire guns so easily is a byproduct of the state’s lax laws. Illinois does not license or regulate gun dealers, require gun registration, limit the number of guns that can be sold at one time, or require background checks on private sales that aren’t conducted at gun shows. Chicago law doesn’t fill in all of these gaps. As a consequence, crooked firearm retailers have very little problem distributing their guns to dealers and police have fewer tools to deal with intermediaries who sell guns privately without background checks.

This is a national problem. Illinois laws, loose as they are, are the eight-strictest in the nation. Broader data suggest that 50 percent of all crime guns come from one percent of dealers. Since illegal guns can travel across state boundaries, federal legislation targeting crooked dealers, traffickers, straw purchasers, and private sales without background checks is the best way to address gun violence in cities like Chicago. Which is exactly what the President is going to Chicago to stump for.

[Soul Crusher]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/11/police-release-shocking-footage-of-drive-by-attack-that-saw-up-to-11-shot-in-dc-this-morning/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=Share%20Buttons

Working great in DC too!!!!!

[Straw Man]

States w less gun control are generally safer so in my mind that is a sign what to do. 

No - we dont need new laws - we need Thug Control - not gun control. 

great, please post link to support you claim

I've previously posted links showing the exact opposite

[tonymctones]

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/02/15/1599631/no-chicago-isnt-proof-that-gun-regulation-doesnt-work/
No, Chicago Isn’t Proof That Gun Regulation Doesn’t Work
By Zack Beauchamp on Feb 15, 2013 at 1:30 pm


Friday afternoon, President Obama will speak on gun violence prevention in Chicago. Charles C.W. Cooke, writing for National Review, previews the conservative spin, arguing that because Chicago has a high murder rate and relatively strict gun laws, it “defies belief” that the President would defend gun regulations there.
But Cooke and the other conservatives who will invariably make this argument today are wrong. Chicago’s gun laws aren’t the cause of the recent uptick in violence, nor does it prove that gun regulations are ineffectual. If anything, it underscores the need for tighter federal laws.

Most significantly, it is important to understand that Chicago is not an island. Although Chicago has historically had strict gun laws, laws in the surrounding parts of Illinois were much laxer — enabling middlemen to supply the criminals in Chicago with guns they purchased elsewhere. Forty three percent of the guns seized by law enforcement in Chicago were originally purchased in other parts of Illinois. And even if the state had stricter gun laws, Illinois is not an island either. The remaining fifty seven percent of Chicago guns all came from out of state, most significantly from nearby Indiana and distant Mississippi — neither of which are known for their strict gun laws.
It’s also important to put Chicago’s very recent increase in gun violence in perspective. Data from the University of Chicago Crime Lab’s Harold Pollack shows that this uptick, while certainly worrying, isn’t anything like a return to the historic peaks during America’s crime wave. Pollack notes that “Chicago ranks 79th on Neighborhood Scout’s list of the 100 most dangerous places to live in America…the idea that Chicago faces a unique or unprecedented rise in homicides is incorrect. Our problems are all too familiar and chronic throughout much of urban America.” Chicago, following the national trend, has experienced a significant downturn in homicides in the past decade and a half:

Chicago had an outright ban on handguns from 1982 until 2010, when the Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional. So there’s no reason to believe that strict regulations on gun ownership were responsible for a spike in gun homicides in 2012, two years after Chicago was forced to loosen its gun laws. Moreover, there’s simply no credible evidence that wider gun ownership or looser gun laws reduce crime.
So why did Chicago’s homicide rate increase in 2012? Pollack says “there’s no simple answer.” But he points to three factors are particularly important: escalating gang conflict as a consequence of police crackdowns and shifting gang territory, outdated law enforcement practices, and — yes — access to guns.
According to Pollack, access to guns significantly increase the risk that a conflict between two gang members escalates to homicide, as weapons designed to kill people (shockingly) make it easier to kill people. Chicago’s streets are flooded with guns: it has roughly six times as many guns as New York City per capita, despite its restrictive laws. So if gang conflict escalates, and the gangs have easy access to guns, the homicide rate should rise. This explanation fits with the fact that 87 percent of Chicago homicides in 2012 were gun-related. New York, by contrast, did not experience a surge in homicides in 2012.

The guns that fueled this fire came from a small number of individuals bringing guns into the city. A study of Chicago’s gun market (which, incidentally, concluded that tight enforcement of Chicago’s gun ban and restrictions significantly disrupted illegal gun markets) found that most of guns in high-crime neighborhoods entered through a small, tight network of suppliers and middlemen: “Gun suppliers report that 60-80% of their sales are negotiated through brokers (we assume the 80% figure) and by our own estimates gun suppliers account for around half of all gun sales in the GB community.” Because most criminals weren’t comfortable going out of their neighborhoods to buy guns, and Chicago had no gun stores in the city, they relied on this network to get them guns from outside of Chicago.

As explained above, the fact that suppliers could acquire guns so easily is a byproduct of the state’s lax laws. Illinois does not license or regulate gun dealers, require gun registration, limit the number of guns that can be sold at one time, or require background checks on private sales that aren’t conducted at gun shows. Chicago law doesn’t fill in all of these gaps. As a consequence, crooked firearm retailers have very little problem distributing their guns to dealers and police have fewer tools to deal with intermediaries who sell guns privately without background checks.

This is a national problem. Illinois laws, loose as they are, are the eight-strictest in the nation. Broader data suggest that 50 percent of all crime guns come from one percent of dealers. Since illegal guns can travel across state boundaries, federal legislation targeting crooked dealers, traffickers, straw purchasers, and private sales without background checks is the best way to address gun violence in cities like Chicago. Which is exactly what the President is going to Chicago to stump for.

LOL everything they used to excuse the gun violence in chicago could be said of the US as a whole. This article is plain idiocy...

guns arent the issue straw weve been over this many many many times.

[Straw Man]

LOL everything they used to excuse the gun violence in chicago could be said of the US as a whole. This article is plain idiocy...

guns arent the issue straw weve been over this many many many times.

I know you don't believe gun violence is caused by guns or access to guns (to be more specific) but not everyone shares your unique point of view

Tell me exactly what part of the article is "idiocy"

[Soul Crusher]

I know you don't believe gun violence is caused by guns or access to guns (to be more specific) but not everyone shares your unique point of view

Tell me exactly what part of the article is "idiocy"

Everyone in most states has wider access to weapons than the animals chicago DC and detroit and there are no problems - so what gives? 

[Straw Man]

Everyone in most states has wider access to weapons than the animals chicago DC and detroit and there are no problems - so what gives? 

you know the answer already

It's Obama's fault

now STFU and let Tony respond

[Soul Crusher]

you know the answer already

It's Obama's fault

now STFU and let Tony respond

I do know the answer - the problem are the thugs and animals and gang bangers who commit most of the crime. 

[Straw Man]

I do know the answer - the problem are the thugs and animals and gang bangers who commit most of the crime. 

good, then go back and read the article about where most of the thugs and animals get access to their guns

[Soul Crusher]

good, then go back and read the article about where most of the thugs and animals get access to their guns

So why is not the same thing happening all over the nation?  Why?  Becuase we have a thug problem, not a gun problem.  Where the thugs reside there are problems.

Lock up the thugs and the problems solve themselves. 

[Straw Man]

So why is not the same thing happening all over the nation?  Why?  Becuase we have a thug problem, not a gun problem.  Where the thugs reside there are problems.

Lock up the thugs and the problems solve themselves. 

so you propose just sweeping the streets and locking up "thugs"

are you sure you're really a lawyer?

[tonymctones]

I know you don't believe gun violence is caused by guns or access to guns (to be more specific) but not everyone shares your unique point of view

Tell me exactly what part of the article is "idiocy"

youre focusing on gun violence instead of violence. The guns are inanimate objects they do what the person wants. if a person has a bomb they will still use it to kill ppl if they choose to.

The article states that illinois isnt an island and that most guns come from outside of illinois. The US isnt an island, banning or barring certain guns wont keep ppl from getting them.

it states that "Broader data suggest that 50 percent of all crime guns come from one percent of dealers. Since illegal guns can travel across state boundaries, federal legislation targeting crooked dealers, traffickers, straw purchasers, and private sales without background checks is the best way to address gun violence in cities like Chicago."

it contradicts itself very clearly here, if they are illegal guns then the legislation for background checks wont address the issue. How are background checks going to help stop illegal activity?

it will just keep track of those that proceed with the background check, if they are already doing illegal activity you think more legislation is going to stop them?

LMFAO, I bet you think we can legislate evil away too.

[Straw Man]

youre focusing on gun violence instead of violence. The guns are inanimate objects they do what the person wants. if a person has a bomb they will still use it to kill ppl if they choose to.

The article states that illinois isnt an island and that most guns come from outside of illinois. The US isnt an island, banning or barring certain guns wont keep ppl from getting them.

it states that "Broader data suggest that 50 percent of all crime guns come from one percent of dealers. Since illegal guns can travel across state boundaries, federal legislation targeting crooked dealers, traffickers, straw purchasers, and private sales without background checks is the best way to address gun violence in cities like Chicago."

it contradicts itself very clearly here, if they are illegal guns then the legislation for background checks wont address the issue. How are background checks going to help stop illegal activity?

it will just keep track of those that proceed with the background check, if they are already doing illegal activity you think more legislation is going to stop them?

LMFAO, I bet you think we can legislate evil away too.

and I'll bet you think there is no correlation with having a gun and shooting someone and not having a gun and not shooting someone

we already evidence (posted numerous times) that stricter gun laws lessen the incidence of gun violence

if 50% of "crime guns" can be traced to 1% of gun dealers then there is obviously an huge and easy target to lessen gun violence

I can go on about this but honestly have no time at the present moment and I doubt it would make any difference as you've convinced yourself that easy access to guns have no bearing gun violence