Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
July 30, 2014, 08:35:32 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: How Can You Make Yourself Believe In a God.  (Read 1430 times)
BikiniSlut
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5033


I'm dating and love Uncle Junior! Xoxoxo


View Profile
« on: March 13, 2013, 10:36:01 PM »

I'm agnostic. But I don't want to be. I WANT to believe in a God. The faith and comfort that one gets from that can't be equaled.

I just don't. I am of such a scientific mind that I can't seem to free it up to believe.

I'm going through a very tough and painful loss in my life right now and I have nowhere to turn, which may be why I am so eager to find something to believe in and something to have faith in.

But even at my best times I still wished I had faith and believed in something. I love the ideal that a higher power has a plan for us. I also love thinking that one is given tough times because they can handle it. God knows they can handle it so he gives it to them over others who could not. It almost justifies pain. Almost but not quite.

I've never experienced anything supernatural or "divine" or had a sudden realization. I wish........

Have any of you ever gone from being a non believe to a believer?

Report to moderator   Logged
syntaxmachine
Getbig IV
****
Posts: 2493



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2013, 11:21:05 PM »

I'm agnostic. But I don't want to be. I WANT to believe in a God. The faith and comfort that one gets from that can't be equaled.

So you want to believe merely because you perceive that there is some personal benefit to it? I would think believing in what is true ought to be the primary motivation for acquiring beliefs (in fact, it seems impossible to attempt otherwise).

How do you know that a significantly higher amount of comfort is achieved by the religious than people like you and me if you haven't been on either side of that divide? They go through the same trials and tribulations as us, and not all end up happy -- it might be instructive to read something of Mother Teresa's state of mind toward the end of her life.

I'm going through a very tough and painful loss in my life right now and I have nowhere to turn, which may be why I am so eager to find something to believe in and something to have faith in.

There are a variety of things that can help you deal with your loss, none of which necessitate adopting beliefs you are rightfully leery of. Therapy, meditation, leaning on a support group of friends and perhaps family, or even something more serious like the administration of certain substances that tend to deeply impact one's psychology in a positive manner can all help (for example, MDMA is currently in trials to treat soldiers with PTSD).

Taking a positive stance towards a God concept (there are a million on offer) which approximates belief may help you. The major religions -- in this context I'm primarily referring to Christianity -- tend to have a communal structure set up that may well assist you in dealing with grief. The problem is that you can't just force yourself to believe in such a thing any more than a Christian can magically force himself into Islamism because he decides it would be fun. It'll be a slog either way, the difference being the non-religious solutions won't demand control of your mind.

But even at my best times I still wished I had faith and believed in something.

I've never felt anything like this so I can't quite sympathize. Why do you think you feel this way?

I love the ideal that a higher power has a plan for us. I also love thinking that one is given tough times because they can handle it.

There's a reason that these ideas exist in our ideational climate and others which are less pleasant -- even if they're from the same ancient religion -- do not. Comforting ideas that satisfy our needs in some form are naturally more popular than the harsher ideas.

I've never experienced anything supernatural or "divine" or had a sudden realization. I wish........

Well, responses telling you of the magical experience of encountering Jesus, Allah, the Almighty gnome, etc. are short in coming. So perhaps you will get some inkling of the feeling they all share (despite their wildly incorrect interpretations). Good luck and try to make an informed decision here.
Report to moderator   Logged
anabolichalo
Time Out
Getbig V
*
Posts: 15157



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2013, 11:49:41 PM »

i've been trying for years

but cant seem to turn off rational thought
Report to moderator   Logged
BikiniSlut
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5033


I'm dating and love Uncle Junior! Xoxoxo


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2013, 12:01:46 AM »

I went to a Christian University and I was the only agnostic in the whole university. It really opened my eyes to a world I never knew. There were other religions present in the university btw.

The faith these people had even at the lowest times was unbelievable. I envied it so. No matter how bad things got they always turned to God.

I'm not suicidal at all but I can almost see why someone could be. When you're in despair and feel there is nothing to turn to what is the point of going on? Believing in something.....even something small gives you strength.
Report to moderator   Logged
Man of Steel
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 14704


Isaiah 40:28-31 ✝


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2013, 06:58:05 AM »

I went to a Christian University and I was the only agnostic in the whole university. It really opened my eyes to a world I never knew. There were other religions present in the university btw.

The faith these people had even at the lowest times was unbelievable. I envied it so. No matter how bad things got they always turned to God.

I'm not suicidal at all but I can almost see why someone could be. When you're in despair and feel there is nothing to turn to what is the point of going on? Believing in something.....even something small gives you strength.

You know, I’ve been lost in those dark times like so many others.   I had a period of injury, despair and hopelessness.  During those dark moments I had one foot in the grave and I did have thoughts of suicide.  I couldn’t understand why a loving God wouldn’t reach out and help me and never once did I turn to him on my own; in fact, that option was the furthest thing from me.   Through the help of prayer from family and friends and the council of my wife I had a moment of clarity and realized that I must willingly surrender……surrender to God and his will for whatever life I had left to live.   In a hospital room, full of despair, I lifted my arms and surrendered like never before to Lord of my life.  In the moments that followed the Holy Spirit entered that place and enveloped me in his loving presence like I’d never thought possible.   My injured leg began to tingle from the point of my surgical incision down the tips of my toes and I knew…..without any doubt…..that I was healed!  In the months of recovery that followed my life was made new and I was alive with fresh eyes opened wide and the Holy Spirit indwelling every fiber of who I am.  I endured several months of painful rehab on my leg, but never once did I despair….the time for hopelessness was over.   It was a beautiful, sweet period in my life of just me and the Lord on a daily basis…..praying and worshiping and enjoying his presence.  I’m fully recovered today, but I realize now that I’d rather have lost my leg than be without my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  Family and friends can’t believe the person I’ve become, but all glory and praise goes to God….it had nothing to do with me…..all I did was surrender.  I’ve had several other amazing experiences with the Holy Spirit since that time, but that first encounter was the sweetest because the veil was lifted from me and I finally knew without a doubt that I was saved and that Christ was alive and loved me!   Today I just want others to experience the same, but the world is filled with roadblocks and finite justifications for ignoring the infinite.  I can tell you this much, when it comes to the Lord “you’re wanted, you’re precious, you’re the love of his heart and the old rugged cross was for you.”

You’ll absolutely be in my prayers…..God bless!
Report to moderator   Logged

BikiniSlut
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5033


I'm dating and love Uncle Junior! Xoxoxo


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2013, 08:12:05 AM »

You know, I’ve been lost in those dark times like so many others.   I had a period of injury, despair and hopelessness.  During those dark moments I had one foot in the grave and I did have thoughts of suicide.  I couldn’t understand why a loving God wouldn’t reach out and help me and never once did I turn to him on my own; in fact, that option was the furthest thing from me.   Through the help of prayer from family and friends and the council of my wife I had a moment of clarity and realized that I must willingly surrender……surrender to God and his will for whatever life I had left to live.   In a hospital room, full of despair, I lifted my arms and surrendered like never before to Lord of my life.  In the moments that followed the Holy Spirit entered that place and enveloped me in his loving presence like I’d never thought possible.   My injured leg began to tingle from the point of my surgical incision down the tips of my toes and I knew…..without any doubt…..that I was healed!  In the months of recovery that followed my life was made new and I was alive with fresh eyes opened wide and the Holy Spirit indwelling every fiber of who I am.  I endured several months of painful rehab on my leg, but never once did I despair….the time for hopelessness was over.   It was a beautiful, sweet period in my life of just me and the Lord on a daily basis…..praying and worshiping and enjoying his presence.  I’m fully recovered today, but I realize now that I’d rather have lost my leg than be without my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  Family and friends can’t believe the person I’ve become, but all glory and praise goes to God….it had nothing to do with me…..all I did was surrender.  I’ve had several other amazing experiences with the Holy Spirit since that time, but that first encounter was the sweetest because the veil was lifted from me and I finally knew without a doubt that I was saved and that Christ was alive and loved me!   Today I just want others to experience the same, but the world is filled with roadblocks and finite justifications for ignoring the infinite.  I can tell you this much, when it comes to the Lord “you’re wanted, you’re precious, you’re the love of his heart and the old rugged cross was for you.”

You’ll absolutely be in my prayers…..God bless!


Thank you so much for sharing this very personal experience. I enjoyed reading it.

I don't know how to surrender. Nor do I know if I'm capable of it. Or even believe in it.

How does someone who isn't confident that a God exists surrender herself to her/him? If I could do that right now I absolutely would.

I like to think that people like you believe enough for you but for me as well.
Report to moderator   Logged
Man of Steel
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 14704


Isaiah 40:28-31 ✝


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2013, 09:20:28 AM »

Thank you so much for sharing this very personal experience. I enjoyed reading it.

I don't know how to surrender. Nor do I know if I'm capable of it. Or even believe in it.

How does someone who isn't confident that a God exists surrender herself to her/him? If I could do that right now I absolutely would.

I like to think that people like you believe enough for you but for me as well.

Today, yes, I believe enough for every member of Getbig LOL!  Grin  Before that, no, I doubted God and myself for years and years.

To be honest, I don’t think you can force yourself to believe initially.   I think it’s first about a desire to want to believe despite the unbelief.   You’ve expressed that you would love to believe, but you have some obstacles that prevent that belief or that surrender…..I understand that.   Some folks want nothing to do with God, but most folks that aren’t certain about faith in God and would love to believe (like you)….that simple, personal desire is enough.  From a position of unbelief you have nothing to loss and everything to gain (IMHO).  Certainly the more haughty of unbelievers will argue to their last breathe that even attempting to engage in a “religion” or belief in a “flying spaghetti monster” will cause that person to loss focus or rational thought or sanity or freedom of some sort once they conclude that it was all a farce and never needed to be indulged.  We could discuss scripture, archeology, philosophy, personal testimonies, etc…..and objections can be raised and excuses made for every possibility for engaging in belief.  People are spectacular when it comes to justifying their actions and lousy when it comes to admitting their actions may be wrong (or sinful).  The reality is that there is nothing to lose and only something positive to gain by attempting to engage in belief.   If you surrender and give yourself to the Lord you will have a new life ahead of you and a personal relationship with the creator of the universe that extends through eternity.  If you surrender and give yourself to the Lord and discover it’s all nonsense then you can check that one off your list and press on with your life even more assured that you were right all along and have exhausted all possibilities towards belief in God.    I say none of this to be insulting, but simply to address that attempting to belief is not a pointless exercise….it’s win, win.   The act of belief is about humility and surrender and love and life and faith.   Others scoff at faith as though it’s a meaningless notion….that’s simple ignorance and nothing more.   For a nonbeliever faith is a definite leap, but for a believer faith transforms into full assurance in the heart.  It’s that leap that bridges the gap between doubt and assurance and the bridge is founded upon the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers.   The presence of the Lord himself made manifest and tangible in the lives of believers worldwide.  As believers we become the greatest the body of proof for God and ironically the most ridiculed proof for God.  

My suggestion is to start with simple prayer and even consider reading some scripture.   Again I would suggest reading the gospel of John, the book of Acts and Paul’s letter to the Romans in the New Testament…all three are back to back in the bible.  Pray before reading and ask God to help reveal himself to you in his word and then pray after about that scripture read.   Christ is the narrow gate to salvation, but we must willing to even baby step our way through that gate initially…even those baby steps can be a leap.   Certainly I’m willing to speak to you and I know others are as well.   I don’t have all the answers, but I am willing to help however I can.  I know that you don’t know me and I also don’t know you, but I can tell you that I care about you and I care about what you’ve expressed already.
Report to moderator   Logged

loco
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 8878

Getbig!


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2013, 10:48:10 AM »

I'm agnostic. But I don't want to be. I WANT to believe in a God. The faith and comfort that one gets from that can't be equaled.

I just don't. I am of such a scientific mind that I can't seem to free it up to believe.

I'm going through a very tough and painful loss in my life right now and I have nowhere to turn, which may be why I am so eager to find something to believe in and something to have faith in.

But even at my best times I still wished I had faith and believed in something. I love the ideal that a higher power has a plan for us. I also love thinking that one is given tough times because they can handle it. God knows they can handle it so he gives it to them over others who could not. It almost justifies pain. Almost but not quite.

I've never experienced anything supernatural or "divine" or had a sudden realization. I wish........

Have any of you ever gone from being a non believe to a believer?



Hi BikiniSlut!  I am sorry that you are going through a very tough and painful loss in your life!  I, and I'm sure other Christians on this board, are praying that God will bring some joy and comfort to you, even if you are not sure of His existence.

Your desire to believe is a good start.  I don't think that you can "force" yourself to believe, but we Christians can at least share with you what we know and believe.  Maybe that will help.

I suggest you start by reading the Gospel of John.  If you do not have a Bible, you can read it online here:

John
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=NIV

That would be a good next step.

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

After you read John, there is this book that many people would recommend:

The Purpose Driven Life: What on Earth Am I Here For?
http://www.amazon.com/The-Purpose-Driven-Life-ebook/dp/B008EGV4BQ/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

Find a Christian church near you where the Bible is taught and preached, attend, make friends and get involved.  Even if you do not believe in God, the fellowship and companionship will do wonders.  Getting involved with others in Church charitable activities might put your own problems in prospective and make them seem small in comparison.

I hope this helps, and I hope you get through this tough time one way or another!
Report to moderator   Logged
a_ahmed
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5755


Team Nasser


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2013, 12:34:54 PM »

Without the need to read, I recommend you watch this, it's to the point and it's worth your time..:

This is the first part divided in three parts:

The Purpose Of Life part 1

Part 1
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zor1et-rT8c" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zor1et-rT8c</a>

Part 2
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5W1dkXv05Q" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5W1dkXv05Q</a>

Part 3
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQbnt5ZLRu8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQbnt5ZLRu8</a>

I was a Christian and I became Muslim. And although the media is taking every effort to demonize muslims, it is in fact women who are the majority of converts to islam. It will make things make a lot of sense. The trinity makes no sense, 'god' being a human being, dying, etc... anyone needing to die for someone else's mistakes, all that makes no sense. Islam teaches us that God is most the merciful and forgiving and does not need anyone to die for someone else to be 'forgiven'. All of us will be held accountable on our own counts, and God will understand everyone's condition and state and judge justly. Nor is god man, god ghost, god head, and all that trinity non-sense. God is one, nothing resembles Him, He is the creator, and all of us and all around us is his creation. When you become a Muslim all your past sins are forgiven and start pure as a baby. What mistakes you make forward will be on your account. Islam teaches we are all born pure unlike chrsitianity which teaches that we are born inheriting the sin of Adam (peace be upon him). We are not born evil, we are born pure, but it is our parents, peers, environment, society that corrupts us but we still inherently can differentiate between right and wrong, but only our arrogance and hardnes of heart can prevents us to recognize it otherwise.

Muslim by definition is the one who submits himself to God alone, not men, not women, not things, not objects, but submits his heart and soul to God. Through pure thought, good intention and through right action.

We worship God alone, not anything or anyone in the creation.  Nor do we need 'in betweeners' between us and God. Catholics often pray to saints, Jesus, Mary, etc... for instance while others pray to Jesus because they say Jesus is God. This is wrong. According to the bible itself Jesus prayed to God and it is emphasized all over. Jesus was a human being chosen by God, created by God.

How Jesus had no father but a mother, Adam had no father or mother. Both are created by God, all of us are created by God.

And unlike Christianity, Islam spread and prospered with science and rational thought. Muslims are responsible for the majority of discoveries in medicine, architecture, mathematics, physics, mechanics, you name it, but are not given credit.

God in Islam encourages us to use our intellect that He bestowed upon us, not like Priests and pastors who want us to blindly believe in the trinity and something that makes no sense.

http://www.1001inventions.com/

http://www.muslimheritage.com/
Report to moderator   Logged
loco
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 8878

Getbig!


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2013, 01:02:17 PM »

Leave it to a_ahmed to turn this thread into a Christian bashing, trinity argument.    Roll Eyes

There is a time and a place, a_ahmed.  This ain't it. 
Report to moderator   Logged
a_ahmed
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5755


Team Nasser


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2013, 01:24:20 PM »

Well if you think that's bashing? You thought someone having a head injury and becoming Muslim was funny to you, so spare me your cynicism please. You hate Islam, I don't hate Christianity. I was a Christian.

Yes the trinity does not make sense to me, it does not make sense to a rational person. It's called I am not placing my faith in it and others might not or don't either. Not all Christians even believe in Jesus being God or the trinity, but you'd say they are 'not real christians'.

The guy that came up with this at his dying bed basically doubted himself and what he believed. Why? Because it doesn't make sense. God would not confuse anyone, only people do that.



It's perspective. God is the one who guides. What makes sense to me is Islam and monotheism. What makes sense to you is what you preach that Jesus died for everyone's sins, man is born with original sin, you cannot be forgiven or saved without believing Jesus died for everyone's sins, a sacrifice was needed for Jews to be forgiven, so supposedly Jesus dying is the 'ultimate' sacrfice for all time, etc... I don't believe in any of that, doesn't make sense to me and I put my view and alternative forward. In fact I don't believe Jesus died, he was saved by God.

Live with it, just as I live with the fact you are believing in what you do. It's called faith. Submission is by one's own will. That is what Islam is. Submitting your own will to God, not others.

I offer my point of view, you offer your point of view. You can't force me to believe the trinity and I can't force you to believe in God through pure monotheism as thought by Islam.
Report to moderator   Logged
loco
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 8878

Getbig!


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2013, 01:46:46 PM »

a_ahmed, may God bless you and your family!  Peace be unto you!
Report to moderator   Logged
BikiniSlut
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5033


I'm dating and love Uncle Junior! Xoxoxo


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2013, 02:31:48 PM »

All I want is to believe in a higher power......the religion is of no consequence to me at this point. I am most familiar with Christianity but again, the religion does not matter.

I just hate thinking that "I" am it or that humans in general are it.
Report to moderator   Logged
a_ahmed
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5755


Team Nasser


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2013, 02:50:43 PM »

Like I said watch that lecture I posted, without skipping any part of it or forwarding. I guarantee you that you will not leave without at least some awakening to make you think.

My wife used to be very lazy at watching lectures, but if you give it a chance. You will learn much and become introspective with sound conclusions.
Report to moderator   Logged
E-Kul
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 9954


Space: The final frontier


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2013, 08:34:25 PM »

I'm agnostic. But I don't want to be. I WANT to believe in a God. The faith and comfort that one gets from that can't be equaled.

I just don't. I am of such a scientific mind that I can't seem to free it up to believe.

I'm going through a very tough and painful loss in my life right now and I have nowhere to turn, which may be why I am so eager to find something to believe in and something to have faith in.

But even at my best times I still wished I had faith and believed in something. I love the ideal that a higher power has a plan for us. I also love thinking that one is given tough times because they can handle it. God knows they can handle it so he gives it to them over others who could not. It almost justifies pain. Almost but not quite.

I've never experienced anything supernatural or "divine" or had a sudden realization. I wish........

Have any of you ever gone from being a non believe to a believer?


It sounds like you would be better suited to Buddhism, whose main pre occupation is suffering and the means by which one can eliminate it within ourselves and the world at large.  Buddhism doesn't require any faith in a higher power.  Buddhism has also developed practical ways of dealing with suffering, unlike other religions who suggest you just apply wishful thinking and send it cosmically out into the universe hoping it lands in the lap of some cosmic being who actually gives a shit.  One of the Buddhist practices you may find comforting is called 'Tonglen', the word is Tibetan for 'giving and taking' (or sending and receiving).  In this meditative practice, one visualizes taking onto oneself the suffering of others on the in-breath, and on the out-breath giving happiness and success to all sentient beings.

As such it is a training in altruism, as according to the buddhist way of thinking, in part, our suffering is caused by excessive attachment to oneself.  If this is difficult, at first you can just apply it to yourself, breathe in and hold in your mind an awareness of your pain and suffering, and then on the out breath, send yourself love. healing and peace (or whatever it is that comforts you), as you progress you can apply this technique to other peoples suffering.  This practice helps an individual to discover that their pain and suffering isn't unique to them, that their are many others in a similar circumstance and also in need of comfort and healing.  

The Dalai Lama, who is said to practise Tonglen every day, has said of the technique: "Whether this meditation really helps others or not, it gives me peace of mind. Then I can be more effective, and the benefit is immense"

Buddhism is worth a shot for someone like you, even the famous philospher Friedrich Nietzsche who claimed 'God is dead' and essentially thought Religion was poison, complimented Buddhism and he claimed that Buddhism is a successful religion for fostering critical thought.  
Report to moderator   Logged

V
E-Kul
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 9954


Space: The final frontier


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2013, 08:44:52 PM »

More on Tonglen from Buddhist Nun Pema Chodron

THE PRACTICE OF TONGLEN

In order to have compassion for others, we have to have compassion for ourselves.

In particular, to care about other people who are fearful, angry, jealous, overpowered by addictions of all kinds, arrogant, proud, miserly, selfish, mean —you name it— to have compassion and to care for these people, means not to run from the pain of finding these things in ourselves. In fact, one's whole attitude toward pain can change. Instead of fending it off and hiding from it, one could open one's heart and allow oneself to feel that pain, feel it as something that will soften and purify us and make us far more loving and kind.

The tonglen practice is a method for connecting with suffering —ours and that which is all around us— everywhere we go. It is a method for overcoming fear of suffering and for dissolving the tightness of our heart. Primarily it is a method for awakening the compassion that is inherent in all of us, no matter how cruel or cold we might seem to be.

We begin the practice by taking on the suffering of a person we know to be hurting and who we wish to help. For instance, if you know of a child who is being hurt, you breathe in the wish to take away all the pain and fear of that child. Then, as you breathe out, you send the child happiness, joy or whatever would relieve their pain. This is the core of the practice: breathing in other's pain so they can be well and have more space to relax and open, and breathing out, sending them relaxation or whatever you feel would bring them relief and happiness. However, we often cannot do this practice because we come face to face with our own fear, our own resistance, anger, or whatever our personal pain, our personal stuckness happens to be at that moment.

At that point you can change the focus and begin to do tonglen for what you are feeling and for millions of others just like you who at that very moment of time are feeling exactly the same stuckness and misery. Maybe you are able to name your pain. You recognize it clearly as terror or revulsion or anger or wanting to get revenge. So you breathe in for all the people who are caught with that same emotion and you send out relief or whatever opens up the space for yourself and all those countless others. Maybe you can't name what you're feeling. But you can feel it —a tightness in the stomach, a heavy darkness or whatever. Just contact what you are feeling and breathe in, take it in —for all of us and send out relief to all of us.

People often say that this practice goes against the grain of how we usually hold ourselves together. Truthfully, this practice does go against the grain of wanting things on our own terms, of wanting it to work out for ourselves no matter what happens to the others. The practice dissolves the armor of self-protection we've tried so hard to create around ourselves. In Buddhist language one would say that it dissolves the fixation and clinging of ego.

Tonglen reverses the usual logic of avoiding suffering and seeking pleasure and, in the process, we become liberated from a very ancient prison of selfishness. We begin to feel love both for ourselves and others and also we begin to take care of ourselves and others. It awakens our compassion and it also introduces us to a far larger view of reality. It introduces us to the unlimited spaciousness that Buddhists call shunyata. By doing the practice, we begin to connect with the open dimension of our being. At first we experience this as things not being such a big deal or so solid as they seemed before.

Tonglen can be done for those who are ill, those who are dying or have just died, or for those that are in pain of any kind. It can be done either as a formal meditation practice or right on the spot at any time. For example, if you are out walking and you see someone in pain —right on the spot you can begin to breathe in their pain and send some out some relief. Or, more likely, you might see someone in pain and look away because it brings up your fear or anger; it brings up your resistance and confusion.

So on the spot you can do tonglen for all the people who are just like you, for everyone who wishes to be compassionate but instead is afraid, for everyone who wishes to be brave but instead is a coward.

Rather than beating yourself up, use your own stuckness as a stepping stone to understanding what people are up against all over the world.

Breathe in for all of us and breathe out for all of us.

Use what seems like poison as medicine. Use your personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings.
Report to moderator   Logged

V
stingray
Getbig III
***
Posts: 414


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2013, 09:11:18 PM »

I'm agnostic. But I don't want to be. I WANT to believe in a God. The faith and comfort that one gets from that can't be equaled.

I just don't. I am of such a scientific mind that I can't seem to free it up to believe.

I'm going through a very tough and painful loss in my life right now and I have nowhere to turn, which may be why I am so eager to find something to believe in and something to have faith in.

But even at my best times I still wished I had faith and believed in something. I love the ideal that a higher power has a plan for us. I also love thinking that one is given tough times because they can handle it. God knows they can handle it so he gives it to them over others who could not. It almost justifies pain. Almost but not quite.

I've never experienced anything supernatural or "divine" or had a sudden realization. I wish........

Have any of you ever gone from being a non believe to a believer?



Hope God opens your heart to what is best for you.

As the first chapter of the Muslim Koran says " In the Koran, there is guidance for those who seek there lord and the truth ".

Report to moderator   Logged
syntaxmachine
Getbig IV
****
Posts: 2493



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2013, 10:25:36 PM »

I don't know how to surrender. Nor do I know if I'm capable of it. Or even believe in it.

How does someone who isn't confident that a God exists surrender herself to her/him? If I could do that right now I absolutely would.

I like to think that people like you believe enough for you but for me as well.

I think you're coming off a bit immature here, not to mention confused.

Regarding the confusion: One of the variety of concepts associated with the word 'God' may come to play a very important role in your mental life, or it may not. You can't magically arrange your belief system so that this is the case. Such belief shuffling occurs organically, typically as the result of unusual experiences that people cannot explain. These experiences are rare in general, let alone with religious people.

Regarding the immaturity: The bottom line is that God (regardless of the meaning you give the term) helps those who help themselves. Why are you sitting on your hiny, expecting the universe to help? Does it really owe you anything as if you are somehow important to it? I hate to break it to you, but if you ceased to exist sometime soon the universe would function just as before -- and so too with any other human being. We just aren't that important in the scheme of things. You should be grateful for a chance to be alive and breathing, not crying to ethereal forces for help. If there is a God then it is really rather silly to feel entitled to some sort of help from it just because you're feeling blue.

Are you here to get advice on a rational plan of action (whether it is a religious plan or not) to take control of your plight, or just to be jerked around by random emotional impulses in pursuit of nothing in particular? Dwell on this before emitting any more drabble, will you!
Report to moderator   Logged
abijahmaniaco
Getbig IV
****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1554


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2013, 10:40:10 PM »

I'm going through a very tough and painful loss in my life right now and I have nowhere to turn, which may be why I am so eager to find something to believe in and something to have faith in.

this is the main appeal of religion, i feel. i'm sorry you're going through a rough time, but it seems ill-advisable to make yourself believe something especially without evidence simply to comfort yourself. surely you can engage in some more productive behavior that will help orientate you in a positive direction.
Report to moderator   Logged
tu_holmes
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15800


With a keen eye for details, one truth prevails.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2013, 10:42:13 PM »

I feel you are ignoring your rational self... You should just go with your gut instinct.

Report to moderator   Logged
abijahmaniaco
Getbig IV
****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1554


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2013, 10:51:51 PM »

I feel you are ignoring your rational self... You should just go with your gut instinct.



it's a woman's nature to do just that. their feelings take precedence over rational discernment. Undecided
Report to moderator   Logged
E-Kul
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 9954


Space: The final frontier


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2013, 12:16:17 AM »

I think you're coming off a bit immature here, not to mention confused.

Regarding the confusion: One of the variety of concepts associated with the word 'God' may come to play a very important role in your mental life, or it may not. You can't magically arrange your belief system so that this is the case. Such belief shuffling occurs organically, typically as the result of unusual experiences that people cannot explain. These experiences are rare in general, let alone with religious people.

Regarding the immaturity: The bottom line is that God (regardless of the meaning you give the term) helps those who help themselves. Why are you sitting on your hiny, expecting the universe to help? Does it really owe you anything as if you are somehow important to it? I hate to break it to you, but if you ceased to exist sometime soon the universe would function just as before -- and so too with any other human being. We just aren't that important in the scheme of things. You should be grateful for a chance to be alive and breathing, not crying to ethereal forces for help. If there is a God then it is really rather silly to feel entitled to some sort of help from it just because you're feeling blue.

Are you here to get advice on a rational plan of action (whether it is a religious plan or not) to take control of your plight, or just to be jerked around by random emotional impulses in pursuit of nothing in particular? Dwell on this before emitting any more drabble, will you!

The above post wreaks of misogyny and know-it-all ness, but their is some truth in it.  If you are suffering, like any sentient being you will seek comfort and a release from such a state, and you are entitled to it, it just won't be delivered by some imaginary being.  The one thing I do agree with in the above post is that you will have to be the catalyst in you seeking relief from your own suffering, and their are practical means to do this, I recommended Buddhism for someone like yourself who is rational and objective, but their are other avenues, your suffering could be looked at like any problem that can be overcome with enough information.  It is possible to understand your pain more and LEARN ways to manage and minimise it.  

As anyone who has experienced suffering knows, it isn't pleasant, it's uncomfortable and undesirable and it is instinct to seek relief from such a state.  You owe it to yourself to learn to comfort and heal yourself, once you have done this, you will be of greater benefit to yourself and those around you.  

I wouldn't be turning to FAITH, those people are in a far greater state of despair than you, they have chosen to deny reality and choose to dwell in DENIALS temporary solace, but eventually reality catches up to everyone and they won't have learnt the necessary skills to practically deal with it, they will still be burying their head in the sand as a way of coping with it, and although this offers temporary relief, it only delays the inevitable clash with reality and the resulting pain and suffering this brings (Denial of reality such as religious people adopt will only amplify the PAIN and increase suffering once the denial is confronted).  FAITH rather than being for the STRONG is actually for the WEAK.
Report to moderator   Logged

V
BikiniSlut
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5033


I'm dating and love Uncle Junior! Xoxoxo


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2013, 03:08:12 AM »

It's of course a typical "getbiggers" response to say "cmon just be strong", "have willpower", "mind over matter", etc. I see it all the time. The one commonality we have on this forum is a vain and narcissistic pursuit; bodybuilding. Although some people may say they love this pursuit for the healthy lifestyle or personal challenge, at one point we all were sucked in because of vanity.

And being vain in my opinion is a quite a "cold and selfish" thingv we are guilty of. Some in this commanility of ours overcome it and some do not.

But I'll admit right now to all you "strong members" out there, that I am not feeling strong at this point  in my life. The transition phase I am going through is huge. I am not on any meds to get through it, I still workout and follow my normal daily routine, I still act the same towards my fellow co workers, but I am suffering inside.

Wanting to believe in a higher power is something I have wanted for years, through good and bad but yes, when I seek guidance and solace it is something I want even more. And the funny thing is that most of you " strong people" will not understand is that I'm not ashamed to want it, I'm not ashamed to say I'm weak right now and I'm not ashamed to want to believe for my own selfish comfort.

Unlike you I can't just "be strong". I also do believe that I am more emotional because I am a woman, and of course with all the alphas on here I'll never quite fit in properly, but I'm okay with that as well. I could go over to the creepy siouxcountry board and probably get complete validation and empathy, as emotionally women really do understand women. I actually hate being such a hormonal creature, but it is what it is.

I am not confused......I am scared. I do not feel like I have the strength to just rely on my own inner being right now. Nor do I have the outlets most people have like family, friends, psychologists, etc, in this particular matter. So when I think that I am all that there is for this particular pain, I AM scared, and want to reach out for more. The society I am from has taught me that a higher being is the next piece of the puzzle. Maybe if there was no "higher being" option I would find the strength to believe in myself. Mentally though I am at a road block with that.
Report to moderator   Logged
E-Kul
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 9954


Space: The final frontier


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2013, 04:25:49 AM »

It's of course a typical "getbiggers" response to say "cmon just be strong", "have willpower", "mind over matter", etc. I see it all the time. The one commonality we have on this forum is a vain and narcissistic pursuit; bodybuilding. Although some people may say they love this pursuit for the healthy lifestyle or personal challenge, at one point we all were sucked in because of vanity.

And being vain in my opinion is a quite a "cold and selfish" thingv we are guilty of. Some in this commanility of ours overcome it and some do not.

But I'll admit right now to all you "strong members" out there, that I am not feeling strong at this point  in my life. The transition phase I am going through is huge. I am not on any meds to get through it, I still workout and follow my normal daily routine, I still act the same towards my fellow co workers, but I am suffering inside.

Wanting to believe in a higher power is something I have wanted for years, through good and bad but yes, when I seek guidance and solace it is something I want even more. And the funny thing is that most of you " strong people" will not understand is that I'm not ashamed to want it, I'm not ashamed to say I'm weak right now and I'm not ashamed to want to believe for my own selfish comfort.

Unlike you I can't just "be strong". I also do believe that I am more emotional because I am a woman, and of course with all the alphas on here I'll never quite fit in properly, but I'm okay with that as well. I could go over to the creepy siouxcountry board and probably get complete validation and empathy, as emotionally women really do understand women. I actually hate being such a hormonal creature, but it is what it is.

I am not confused......I am scared. I do not feel like I have the strength to just rely on my own inner being right now. Nor do I have the outlets most people have like family, friends, psychologists, etc, in this particular matter. So when I think that I am all that there is for this particular pain, I AM scared, and want to reach out for more. The society I am from has taught me that a higher being is the next piece of the puzzle. Maybe if there was no "higher being" option I would find the strength to believe in myself. Mentally though I am at a road block with that.
Good Post, ironically it indicates you have more strength and self awareness than 99% of getbiggers.  I am also an agnostic, and as for god, I see the whole faith thing as irrelevant, even if their is a GOD it doesn't change the fact we have to endure our lives with the inevitable ups and downs.  I actually think GOD is a roadblock and just another route by which people avoid real human relationships and taking responsibility for all the pain and suffering they cause one another.  If people cared as much about one another as they do GOD, humanity wouldn't suffer as much and their would be no need for GOD in the first place.  GOD is just one more addiction that humanity has to deal with.  I actually think that DOUBT is a far higher state of being than having blind faith, it takes years of serious genuine inquiry to get to such a point and it actually opens your mind as opposed to religion and faith which shut it down completely.  It takes a brave and strong individual indeed to live in such an open minded state, hence the reason so few people do it.

You sound like you are in a great deal of pain, and I know their isn't anything anybody can really say to alleviate that, but sometimes silly clichés help.  One of my favourites used to be 'Whenever you see a beautiful rose, remember it has been fertilised with Shit.".  So whether we are aware of it or not, the crappy parts of our life are indeed beautifying our souls (for want of a better word).
Report to moderator   Logged

V
BikiniSlut
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5033


I'm dating and love Uncle Junior! Xoxoxo


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2013, 06:41:08 AM »

this is the main appeal of religion, i feel. i'm sorry you're going through a rough time, but it seems ill-advisable to make yourself believe something especially without evidence simply to comfort yourself. surely you can engage in some more productive behavior that will help orientate you in a positive direction.

One would think but yet here I am in this position..............
Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Theme created by Egad Community. Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.16 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!