Author Topic: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers  (Read 17833 times)

Las Vegas

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #200 on: January 06, 2014, 10:03:43 AM »
Hillbilly is brutalizing the tiny minds.

pedro01

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #201 on: January 06, 2014, 03:07:18 PM »
LOL no no no sir, I dont think people should be paid more than they are worth. I understand that a very very VERY SMALL % of the population does need to be taken care of and completely support that. I do not support giving people more than they are worth if THEY CHOOSE to not better themself.

My stance is not emotion based at all but nice try there ;)


You don't think people should be paid more than YOU THINK they are worth.

Who are you to define their worth?

Earl1972

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #202 on: January 06, 2014, 03:45:26 PM »
hey tony i don't think the texans deserve the number 1 overall pick

they have nobody but themselves to blame for their failures, they came into the season as a super bowl favorite and lost 14 straight, why do they deserve help by getting the first pick?

they have the defensive player of the year in jj watt, solid qb in schaub, andre johnson future hall of famer and they stock piled high picks for years and play in a shit division etc

give me one good reason they deserve the first pick which is a HANDOUT, they failed because they are losers and failures right?  all those high draft picks including drafting david carr number 1 overall and they still can't get their shit in order?  what the fuck are those guys doing?  playing video games instead of watching game film, playing madden doesn't count you fucking free loaders

by your logic they deserve to work their way up from the bottom without any help, they are entitled to NOTHING, they should forfeit the pick


E

E

Las Vegas

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #203 on: January 06, 2014, 03:47:30 PM »
hey tony i don't think the texans deserve the number 1 overall pick

they have nobody but themselves to blame for their failures, they came into the season as a super bowl favorite and lost 14 straight, why do they deserve help by getting the first pick?

they have the defensive player of the year in jj watt, solid qb in schaub, andre johnson future hall of famer and they stock piled high picks for years and play in a shit division etc

give me one good reason they deserve the first pick which is a HANDOUT, they failed because they are losers and failures right?  all those high draft picks including drafting david carr number 1 overall and they still can't get their shit in order?  what the fuck are those guys doing?  playing video games instead of watching game film, playing madden doesn't count you fucking free loaders

by your logic they deserve to work their way up from the bottom without any help, they are entitled to NOTHING, they should forfeit the pick


E



good one... ;D

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #204 on: January 06, 2014, 03:52:09 PM »
hey tony i don't think the texans deserve the number 1 overall pick

they have nobody but themselves to blame for their failures, they came into the season as a super bowl favorite and lost 14 straight, why do they deserve help by getting the first pick?

they have the defensive player of the year in jj watt, solid qb in schaub, andre johnson future hall of famer and they stock piled high picks for years and play in a shit division etc

give me one good reason they deserve the first pick which is a HANDOUT, they failed because they are losers and failures right?  all those high draft picks including drafting david carr number 1 overall and they still can't get their shit in order?  what the fuck are those guys doing?  playing video games instead of watching game film, playing madden doesn't count you fucking free loaders

by your logic they deserve to work their way up from the bottom without any help, they are entitled to NOTHING, they should forfeit the pick


E


Haha... good one but sportsmanship rules =/= business rules

Las Vegas

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #205 on: January 06, 2014, 03:52:51 PM »
To have the very best system, no matter what, you have to continuously pick up the rear (no homo!!!!)  ;D

Las Vegas

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #206 on: January 06, 2014, 03:57:16 PM »
Only as strong as the weakest link

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #207 on: January 06, 2014, 04:14:36 PM »

You don't think people should be paid more than YOU THINK they are worth.

Who are you to define their worth?
nope my asian management investing guru friend ::)

I dont think ppl should be paid more than what they are worth to their employer plain and simple. If you think youre worth more then go get another job. If you cant, GUESS WHAT???

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #208 on: January 06, 2014, 04:20:43 PM »
hey tony i don't think the texans deserve the number 1 overall pick

they have nobody but themselves to blame for their failures, they came into the season as a super bowl favorite and lost 14 straight, why do they deserve help by getting the first pick?

they have the defensive player of the year in jj watt, solid qb in schaub, andre johnson future hall of famer and they stock piled high picks for years and play in a shit division etc

give me one good reason they deserve the first pick which is a HANDOUT, they failed because they are losers and failures right?  all those high draft picks including drafting david carr number 1 overall and they still can't get their shit in order?  what the fuck are those guys doing?  playing video games instead of watching game film, playing madden doesn't count you fucking free loaders

by your logic they deserve to work their way up from the bottom without any help, they are entitled to NOTHING, they should forfeit the pick


E


LMFAO I like the comparison but its stupid and ignorant.

First and foremost SCHAUB IS NOT A SOLID QB!!! you know it, I fucking know it, anyone who watches football knows it. Schaub is as solid a QB as Rapelisburger is an innocent misunderstood playboy.

Andre is a future hall of famer but you know and I know he is over the hill, he is still a great receiver but he is past his prime.

Finally the NFL as a business thrives on competition and b/c of that it must keep at least some parity between teams meaning that they have incentive to give shitty teams like the Texans a chance to improve themselves or they lose fan base and ultimately revenue.

You can think of the number one draft pick of the minimum wage and I dont see you arguing for giving us the number 1 and 2 pick...

As I have stated many times I agree that we should provide for people who cannot provide for themselves. We already provide a living wage to people who work full time at minimum wage.



pedro01

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #209 on: January 06, 2014, 06:07:56 PM »
nope my asian management investing guru friend ::)

I dont think ppl should be paid more than what they are worth to their employer plain and simple. If you think youre worth more then go get another job. If you cant, GUESS WHAT???

So what you are saying is that the market can't make a wrong decision and that all prices generated by the market must therefore be 'right'?

pellius

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #210 on: January 06, 2014, 07:39:44 PM »

You don't think people should be paid more than YOU THINK they are worth.

Who are you to define their worth?

The buying determines the worth or more accurately, the value, of a particular good or service. When I read about how some painting went for a couple of million dollars it tells me not what you or I think it's worth or value is but that there is obviously someone out there that would be willing to pay that amount whereas you or I wouldn't give $50 for what many consider a rare work of art.
So I am the one to determine the worth of anything and everything in world by the dollars I am willing to trade for it. You are too.

As the saying goes, "However pays the piper calls the tune."

Slapper

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Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #211 on: January 06, 2014, 08:29:43 PM »
Of course you are a liberal. Doesn't matter what you claim.

It's a recurring theme with your kind... When you don't understand something, which happens often, you go full retard and refuse to believe what the other person is telling you. If I were a classical liberal, which is what you are referring to, I would have no problem admitting to that. I can't really find any reason not to.

I am an anarchist. I don't believe in government, leaders, representatives, alpha males, et cetera. I understand that we are communal beings, always have been (even when we were monkeys,) and any deviation from the communal group context (cities, states, countries, economic zones, et cetera) is doomed to fail. Not because they are bad socio-economic systems, but because when they are applied to human beings they do fail eventually.

NOW, I do live in a country based on laws and contracts, and I do understand that the majority of people do want to live in this system, so I have no choice but to accept it and adapt, which I've done (kind of like Charlton Heston in Planet of the Apes). But this does not take away from me wanting to do what I would do if I were to live in a government-less communal environment, like helping the poor, elderly, the incapacitated, giving kids a free education, et cetera.

Quote
You hold the positions associated with the left.

No, I actually am more right than you think. You'd be surprised how issues I actually agree with the Tea Baggers on.  

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Liberals from some reason are often ashamed to admit they are liberal whereas conservative, though demonized by the majority, have no problem affirming where their values lie. Let me guess, you call yourself an independent yet there are very few actual positions associated with the right that you subscribe to.

See previous response.

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Nonetheless you betray yourself by simply the way you debate. Your arguments are emotion based so you don't engage in rational exchange but simply emote. I disagree with the minimum wage and present my reason for doing so. The belief in economic freedom and that in any transaction the only people who should be making the decisions are the buyer and the seller. This applies whether i you are buying or selling a pair of shoes, a loaf of bread or someone's labor. You take personal offense to this and the insults and ad hominem attacks soon surface. Whereas I believe that your position is simply wrong I in no way consider it a statement on your humanity or decency. You believe that I am not only wrong but a bad and evil person and have ill will towards me. That I want people to suffer and starve to death. Just look at your angry and vindictive avi comment" "conservatives should be hung by the balls." I don't want hang any liberal hung by the balls. I just don't want them making social policy.

Au contraire mon ami, I've actually given you arguments to respond to. The main problem is that they went right through you because you really are not into reading. Please do not take it as an insult. To me an insult is to call someone an idiot even though the person was not acting in an idiotic manner. Whenever you call someone something based on their actions, e.g. "stupid" to someone acting really stupidly, it's an observation, not an insult.

I do not believe in "economic freedom" or "the market". So I really do not know if you want to meet me in the middle because it's a big gap.

And I actually am balls-deep in "the market", not because I think it's a great place to make money, which is to some, but because I see it as a casino and I go in knowing what my odds are. I made a lot of money thinking this way.

Cheers.

pellius

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #212 on: January 06, 2014, 09:00:22 PM »
It's a recurring theme with your kind... When you don't understand something, which happens often, you go full retard and refuse to believe what the other person is telling you. If I were a classical liberal, which is what you are referring to, I would have no problem admitting to that. I can't really find any reason not to.

I am an anarchist. I don't believe in government, leaders, representatives, alpha males, et cetera. I understand that we are communal beings, always have been (even when we were monkeys,) and any deviation from the communal group context (cities, states, countries, economic zones, et cetera) is doomed to fail. Not because they are bad socio-economic systems, but because when they are applied to human beings they do fail eventually.

NOW, I do live in a country based on laws and contracts, and I do understand that the majority of people do want to live in this system, so I have no choice but to accept it and adapt, which I've done (kind of like Charlton Heston in Planet of the Apes). But this does not take away from me wanting to do what I would do if I were to live in a government-less communal environment, like helping the poor, elderly, the incapacitated, giving kids a free education, et cetera.

No, I actually am more right than you think. You'd be surprised how issues I actually agree with the Tea Baggers on.  

See previous response.

Au contraire mon ami, I've actually given you arguments to respond to. The main problem is that they went right through you because you really are not into reading. Please do not take it as an insult. To me an insult is to call someone an idiot even though the person was not acting in an idiotic manner. Whenever you call someone something based on their actions, e.g. "stupid" to someone acting really stupidly, it's an observation, not an insult.

I do not believe in "economic freedom" or "the market". So I really do not know if you want to meet me in the middle because it's a big gap.

And I actually am balls-deep in "the market", not because I think it's a great place to make money, which is to some, but because I see it as a casino and I go in knowing what my odds are. I made a lot of money thinking this way.

Cheers.

You claim to be an anarchist (no government) yet you support the government interference and want them to determine how much labor should be bought or sold for. I'm simply pointing out the implications and contradictions of what you, yourself, are saying. Again, you can call yourself anything you want. But the positions you support speaks for itself.

I believe in economic freedom and believe it is the buyer and seller that should determine prices for goods and service. And having given arguments as to why I think this is better. You don't believe in economic freedom and believe the government, a third party outside observer that incurs none of the costs or risks inherent in any transaction, should make these decision and in the same breath claim you are an anarchist which abhors all governments. Socialism, which is what this is, has been tried and failed throughout history. It's not simply by chance that America grew to be the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world though this is crumbling due to the ever expanding government and the control they have on our lives.

The bigger the government the smaller the people.

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #213 on: January 07, 2014, 10:26:40 AM »
So what you are saying is that the market can't make a wrong decision and that all prices generated by the market must therefore be 'right'?
Define wrong....

Supply, demand and market price are all functions of mathematic equations so while you may feel they are "wrong" if allowed to work freely they will come to an equilibrium.

Now you can alter the outcome by enforcing floors or ceilings and that could be interpreted as wrong but if that's what you mean forcing someone to pay a certain wage is wrong

Earl1972

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #214 on: January 07, 2014, 11:36:30 AM »
LMFAO I like the comparison but its stupid and ignorant.

First and foremost SCHAUB IS NOT A SOLID QB!!! you know it, I fucking know it, anyone who watches football knows it. Schaub is as solid a QB as Rapelisburger is an innocent misunderstood playboy.

Andre is a future hall of famer but you know and I know he is over the hill, he is still a great receiver but he is past his prime.

Finally the NFL as a business thrives on competition and b/c of that it must keep at least some parity between teams meaning that they have incentive to give shitty teams like the Texans a chance to improve themselves or they lose fan base and ultimately revenue.

You can think of the number one draft pick of the minimum wage and I dont see you arguing for giving us the number 1 and 2 pick...

As I have stated many times I agree that we should provide for people who cannot provide for themselves. We already provide a living wage to people who work full time at minimum wage.




do the fast food workers really get 40 hours a week?

another thing i forgot to mention was drafting mario williams 1st overall, he was very good then they let him go to buffalo

this is will be the 3rd time they had the number 1 pick in 12 years of existence and they have had numerous top 10 picks, why can't they get their shit in order?

i'm not sold on teddy bridgewater or clowney

E
E

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #215 on: January 07, 2014, 04:37:48 PM »
do the fast food workers really get 40 hours a week?

another thing i forgot to mention was drafting mario williams 1st overall, he was very good then they let him go to buffalo

this is will be the 3rd time they had the number 1 pick in 12 years of existence and they have had numerous top 10 picks, why can't they get their shit in order?

i'm not sold on teddy bridgewater or clowney

E
cost benefit my friend, williams was a good player when healthy but he pulled in what 95 million or something outrageous like that?

We have plenty of defensive stars and our cap issues are going to be horrible in a few years.

I hear a lot of talk about clowney but I just dont think we need him. We have watt, mercilus, reed who can play end so unless they feel he can transition to a linebacker I dont think we take him.


luvvsuNOT

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #216 on: January 07, 2014, 05:08:40 PM »
Slapper getting royally exposed for the snobbish fool that he is.

"Anarchist"..... Oh brother  ::)

Slapper

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #217 on: January 07, 2014, 05:26:02 PM »
You claim to be an anarchist

I am not claiming anything, I am an anarchist.

Quote
(no government) yet you support the government interference and want them to determine how much labor should be bought or sold for. I'm simply pointing out the implications and contradictions of what you, yourself, are saying. Again, you can call yourself anything you want. But the positions you support speaks for itself.

Not at all. In order to end poverty or wage-slave labor I could care less whether it's the state, local or city government, the military or the Nuns of Our Lady Mary who end poverty. I understand the majority of Americans want to live in this law-based system and understand that in order to get things changed you have to negotiate with the entities that enforce contracts, namely the government. I don't like it. The same way I wouldn't like it if I had to negotiate a wage increase with the Gambino family or the Black Panthers. It's a necessary evil if you will, under the circumstances, because ending poverty is the goal.

Quote
I believe in economic freedom and believe it is the buyer and seller that should determine prices for goods and service. And having given arguments as to why I think this is better. You don't believe in economic freedom and believe the government, a third party outside observer that incurs none of the costs or risks inherent in any transaction, should make these decision and in the same breath claim you are an anarchist which abhors all governments.

Look at my previous response.  ::)

Quote
Socialism, which is what this is, has been tried and failed throughout history. It's not simply by chance that America grew to be the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world though this is crumbling due to the ever expanding government and the control they have on our lives.


Look, whatever your issues are with the government, it's between you and them.

Quote
The bigger the government the smaller the people.

That is actually something I agree with.

pedro01

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #218 on: January 07, 2014, 06:36:51 PM »
Define wrong....

Supply, demand and market price are all functions of mathematic equations so while you may feel they are "wrong" if allowed to work freely they will come to an equilibrium.

Now you can alter the outcome by enforcing floors or ceilings and that could be interpreted as wrong but if that's what you mean forcing someone to pay a certain wage is wrong

By wrong - I mean localised supply and demand setting wages  that are a detriment to society as a whole.

I don't just mean from a morality perspective either.

I'm talking about added burden in terms of benefits, healthcare, crime costs that the rest of society has to bear because of wages below the poverty line.

Also from the perspective that lower paid people spend a much higher percentage of their disposable income.  Raise the minimums to an extent and you will have a net positive effect on the economy. There is obviously a balance there but the localized supply and demand picture is not the only factor to consider.

BTW - I'm one of the top 50 companies on Investimonials now out of 10,294 companies. What do you reckon - top 20 in 12 months?

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #219 on: January 07, 2014, 08:12:29 PM »
By wrong - I mean localised supply and demand setting wages  that are a detriment to society as a whole.

I don't just mean from a morality perspective either.

I'm talking about added burden in terms of benefits, healthcare, crime costs that the rest of society has to bear because of wages below the poverty line.

Also from the perspective that lower paid people spend a much higher percentage of their disposable income.  Raise the minimums to an extent and you will have a net positive effect on the economy. There is obviously a balance there but the localized supply and demand picture is not the only factor to consider.

BTW - I'm one of the top 50 companies on Investimonials now out of 10,294 companies. What do you reckon - top 20 in 12 months?
one could argue that supporting these individuals is bad for the economy as well, you see your argument is based on feelings. If you look at it from a purely economic stand point if we quit paying people to fuck up and not face the consequences sooner or later the amount of fuck ups will diminish. If we dont impose a minimum wage sooner or later people will leave, the cost of living will diminish and the wages will eventually rise.

Now you will undoubtedly take a step back to your morality point in which your stance is based on that you feel people should get paid enough to make a decent living b/c its the right thing to do. Even though you cant say what dollar amount that is, how many fuck ups they are allowed(kids, arrests etc).

lol wtf is investimonials?

pedro01

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #220 on: January 07, 2014, 08:35:57 PM »
one could argue that supporting these individuals is bad for the economy as well, you see your argument is based on feelings. If you look at it from a purely economic stand point if we quit paying people to fuck up and not face the consequences sooner or later the amount of fuck ups will diminish. If we dont impose a minimum wage sooner or later people will leave, the cost of living will diminish and the wages will eventually rise.

So - let me get this right. You consider someone on minimum wage to be a fuck up?

Surely you understand that we need people to do menial jobs. If no-one was a 'fuck up' in your words - those jobs would still exist and we would still need people to perform them.

And you say my opinion is based on feelings, yet you make a wide sweeping statement that people on low wages are 'fuck ups'?

Now you will undoubtedly take a step back to your morality point in which your stance is based on that you feel people should get paid enough to make a decent living b/c its the right thing to do. Even though you cant say what dollar amount that is, how many fuck ups they are allowed(kids, arrests etc).

No need - you have pretty much stated that these people are bad anyway. You won't consider ther wider economical benefits of a better minimum wage as you straight up see yourself as better than these people and more worthy.

There would be no point arguing the case with someone who is so clearly bigoted.

lol wtf is investimonials?

You'll figure it out.

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #221 on: January 07, 2014, 08:49:33 PM »
So - let me get this right. You consider someone on minimum wage to be a fuck up?
If they are trying to make a living on it...YES

If it is a high school/college student or some other young person just entering the work force...NO

Surely you understand that we need people to do menial jobs. If no-one was a 'fuck up' in your words - those jobs would still exist and we would still need people to perform them.

And you say my opinion is based on feelings, yet you make a wide sweeping statement that people on low wages are 'fuck ups'?
sorry bro the majority of people on minimum wage are below 25 as it is.

Data backs up the fact that those "poor" people you like to champion for spend frivolously on things like video games, eating out, cable tv etc.

Data also backs ups the fact that the majority of people on welfare are single mothers under 30 with 2+ kids with at most a high school diploma.

Im not making this shit up, these are FUCKING FACTS!!!

No need - you have pretty much stated that these people are bad anyway. You won't consider ther wider economical benefits of a better minimum wage as you straight up see yourself as better than these people and more worthy.

your argument is that we need to raise the minimum wage b/c it doesnt provide a living wage. You dont define "living wage", dont take into account the majority of those working for minimum wage are young people just entering the work force, ignore the fact that a single person working full time making minimum wage is above the poverty line.

Oh yea and you openly admit you have no facts to back up your ASSinine ASSumptions...::)

forillagorilla

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #222 on: January 07, 2014, 09:01:46 PM »
Clarify how it "disrupts the price of work".
Minimum wage is simply an anti-capitalist concept - you will have a hard time building wealth on min wage and in America today ANYONE can build wealth if they have passion and are willing to work as hard as it takes

pellius

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #223 on: January 07, 2014, 09:03:21 PM »

Not at all. In order to end poverty or wage-slave labor I could care less whether it's the state, local or city government, the military or the Nuns of Our Lady Mary who end poverty. I understand the majority of Americans want to live in this law-based system and understand that in order to get things changed you have to negotiate with the entities that enforce contracts, namely the government. I don't like it. The same way I wouldn't like it if I had to negotiate a wage increase with the Gambino family or the Black Panthers. It's a necessary evil if you will, under the circumstances, because ending poverty is the goal.
 

What other alternative is there when trading goods and services? Whether it's with money or a barter system people are not going to get something for nothing. In the absence of coercion where people simply get what they want by force, negotiation is inevitable. You bargain and make mutually agreed upon deals. And there's a huge different between negotiating with Microsoft than with the Gambino family. Huge difference.

pellius

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #224 on: January 07, 2014, 09:09:06 PM »
Minimum wage is simply an anti-capitalist concept - you will have a hard time building wealth on min wage and in America today ANYONE can build wealth if they have passion and are willing to work as hard as it takes

People seem to totally neglect, ignore or are simply unaware of the concept of income mobility. People move through the economic spectrum. Earning more income as experience and job skills increase. The percentage of people working minimum wage jobs over the course of a few years may remain the same but this in no way implies that it is the SAME people working those job. Some move on, others move in as they enter the labor force. And the same applies to the rich. Someone may be rich this year but middle class or even poor several years later.