Author Topic: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers  (Read 17893 times)

pellius

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #150 on: January 04, 2014, 10:19:23 PM »


And that's your experience, which OK. Believe me, no one is going to get in the way of your wish to work 3 jobs and take 8 years to get an undergraduate degree. If you want to take the hard way up, be my guest. Now, if people want a different route, spare them your bullshit. It's their right. It's like saying "yeah, I'm dumb and I'm proud!". Well, the other 99.99% don't want to be as dumb as you.

What makes you think it was my wish to work 3 jobs and take 8 years to get a degree? I didn't have the financial advantages that others had so I had to do what I had to do to achieve my goals. If I could have taken and different easier route I would have. Life is unfair. Some people have it better than others. I can complain and insist that others give me what I think I am entitled to or take personal responsibility and make the best of my situation and try to improve upon it.

A single job takes 7-9 hours of your time, depending on whether you take lunch or not (including commute). What you are saying is that you used to work between 21 and 24 hours per day, as well as go to school, presumably on a part time basis. At least this is what you intended to have people believe. I called your bluff and scored it with a bullshit. You lied, plain and simple.

Well, it's obvious you come from privilege and don't know anything about roughing it. I work for Sears Monday-Thursday for five hours and on Fridays for 8 hours. I also worked at a gym on Sat and Sunday for 8 hr shifts. It was good for a student because I worked the desk and could do my homework. I went to school part time during the week in the morning. My shift at Sears was 4-9 PM and on Fridays from 1-9PM.

What you were probably doing is working at the GAP on a part-time basis, then helping your uncle Luiggi at the pizza place on Saturdays and once in a while help your gumbah Vinnie with his DJ business. This is the reason I'm saying that most of you can't relate, because the arguments you are using are so far off the mark they percolate "I have idea what I'm talking about, but I'll say it real loud and with lots of cuss words and insults to make people turn away in disgust (which you take as an argumentative victory, and this is the sad part)".

Wrong.

Oh, we've gone from 3 to 2 jobs now. Do you understand the lying part now?

At the age of 18 I wasn't going to school and worked a night shift (4-12 PM) Mon-Friday as a security guard at the Marco Polo condo in Waikiki. On Sat-Sun I worked the 4-12 PM shift also as a security guard for another condo in Hawaii Kai, The Esplande. On Tuesday and Thursdays or Mon, Weds, Fri (depending on the schedule) I worked the 9-2 shift at JC Penny as a cashier. When I saved enough money I move to California where I worked full time at a print shop for a year to establish residency so that I could qualify for in State tuition which is a fraction of the cost for an out of State tuition. After working for a year and saving some money I then started going to college, first a community college, El Camino in Torrance, CA. and then transfered to UCLA. That's when I quite my job at the print shop and took the part time jobs at Sears and the now defunct Barlow's gym.

And that's OK, I've been saying this all along: If you want to take the hard and long way to the top, be my guest. You're certainly not impressing me.

I took this road because I wasn't born into privilege. Just like so many others. But I didn't complain or insist that others support me or require my employers to pay me more because they can afford to. I tried to make the best of my circumstances given my situations and opportunities available. You can't understand this because your parents paid for your education and supported you. You had it better. Good for you. I don't resent it. You had a shorter, easier way because you just happened to be born into a better situation. That's life.

How many jobs have I provided? Directly? Plenty. I pay for people to come over and take care of my trees, my gardens as well as other choirs. And I'm pretty sure my tax dollars easily employ two or three individuals. That's how I roll.

And how much do you pay them? Do they make a good living? The way you talk you sound like you could afford to pay them more. Why don't you? You seem to have way more than enough. Way more than what most people have or need. Instead of insisting that other people pay more because they "can afford it" why don't you?

See how you react differently when people thrown your own arguments back at you?



pellius

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #151 on: January 04, 2014, 10:30:21 PM »
What I give away to charity on a yearly basis is worth more than the island where you're from.



So you could buy Hawaii? Why don't you do that and house all the people you claim to care so much about?

You're quite full of yourself, aren't you? But that's typical of Liberals. They are better and smarter than everyone else and knows what's best for them. Even how much one should pay and be paid.

Overload

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #152 on: January 04, 2014, 10:36:02 PM »
Thanks for posting this, i didn't read any of this thread, but just the title reminds my how thankful i am that i have an Engineering degree with MBA.  I worked full time and got both degrees while being employed.  Many years ago i made $9 per hour and still made it through college with zero debt.  If people actually learn how to value a dollar it's possible.

Sadly, i don't feel bad for people who make minimum wage.  It's up to them to better themselves.  My tax dollars are already wasted enough and a cheeseburger is getting too expensive already.  Learn a trade and stop shitting out kids.  Go live in a 3rd world country and come back and complain.


8)

pellius

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #153 on: January 04, 2014, 10:51:03 PM »
Thanks for posting this, i didn't read any of this thread, but just the title reminds my how thankful i am that i have an Engineering degree with MBA.  I worked full time and got both degrees while being employed.  Many years ago i made $9 per hour and still made it through college with zero debt.  If people actually learn how to value a dollar it's possible.

Sadly, i don't feel bad for people who make minimum wage.  It's up to them to better themselves.  My tax dollars are already wasted enough and a cheeseburger is getting too expensive already.  Learn a trade and stop shitting out kids.  Go live in a 3rd world country and come back and complain.


8)

X2

As I said before, we take so much for granted here. We all come from different circumstances and we can't all be millionaires like Slapper living near the Clintons (is that something to brag about?) but this is still America and if you are willing to work hard and sacrifice you can always improve on your situation and there's no where else where you can make a better life for yourselves.

Tapeworm

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #154 on: January 04, 2014, 11:16:52 PM »
x0

I met a kid who couldn't read a tape measure.  That was after a 6 month pre-apprenticship course.  No matter how many times you showed him he continued to struggle with it all day.  Metric, no less, so no fractions.  Not a retard but just... slow.  

Not everyone can simply decide to get ahead.  Yes, far more can than do but there's always going to be a group of bottom level wage earners.  They need to make a living too.  That's the purpose of law.  To protect the weak from being eaten by the strong.  Lol @ the position that only those exactly as weak as one's self should be protected by law, and the law of the jungle should apply to anyone weaker.

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #155 on: January 05, 2014, 07:24:39 AM »
x0

I met a kid who couldn't read a tape measure.  That was after a 6 month pre-apprenticship course.  No matter how many times you showed him he continued to struggle with it all day.  Metric, no less, so no fractions.  Not a retard but just... slow. 

Not everyone can simply decide to get ahead.  Yes, far more can than do but there's always going to be a group of bottom level wage earners.  They need to make a living too.  That's the purpose of law.  To protect the weak from being eaten by the strong.  Lol @ the position that only those exactly as weak as one's self should be protected by law, and the law of the jungle should apply to anyone weaker.
There are plenty of govt programs to assist a person such as the one you described. We dont have to raise the minimum wage so that the VAST VAST MAJORITY of people who do have the ability to do better can get bailed out of the shitty ass decisions they have made.

wes

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #156 on: January 05, 2014, 07:27:44 AM »
x0

I met a kid who couldn't read a tape measure.  That was after a 6 month pre-apprenticship course.  No matter how many times you showed him he continued to struggle with it all day.  Metric, no less, so no fractions.  Not a retard but just... slow. 

Not everyone can simply decide to get ahead.  Yes, far more can than do but there's always going to be a group of bottom level wage earners.  They need to make a living too.  That's the purpose of law.  To protect the weak from being eaten by the strong.  Lol @ the position that only those exactly as weak as one's self should be protected by law, and the law of the jungle should apply to anyone weaker.
THIS

Some people,no matter what they do, or attempt to do, either don`t have the faculties to move upwards, or nobody gives them a chance to do so in the first place.

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #157 on: January 05, 2014, 07:31:03 AM »
THIS

Some people,no matter what they do, or attempt to do, either don`t have the faculties to move upwards, or nobody gives them a chance to do so in the first place.
There are plenty of govt programs to assist a person such as the one you described. We dont have to raise the minimum wage so that the VAST VAST MAJORITY of people who do have the ability to do better can get bailed out of the shitty ass decisions they have made.

Slapper

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #158 on: January 05, 2014, 08:19:10 AM »
So you could buy Hawaii? Why don't you do that and house all the people you claim to care so much about?

That's what I'm trying to accomplish with the minimum wage increase. The increase would apply to the territory of the USA, including Hawaii. I can't believe I have to point this out to you...

Quote
You're quite full of yourself, aren't you? But that's typical of Liberals. They are better and smarter than everyone else and knows what's best for them. Even how much one should pay and be paid.

I'm not a liberal.

Like I said, off the mark.

I bet the average IQ in the mainland went down 50 points once you set foot in it.

Should've stayed in Hawaii picking pineapples kanapapiki.

tu_holmes

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #159 on: January 05, 2014, 08:21:24 AM »
x0

I met a kid who couldn't read a tape measure.  That was after a 6 month pre-apprenticship course.  No matter how many times you showed him he continued to struggle with it all day.  Metric, no less, so no fractions.  Not a retard but just... slow. 

Not everyone can simply decide to get ahead.  Yes, far more can than do but there's always going to be a group of bottom level wage earners.  They need to make a living too.  That's the purpose of law.  To protect the weak from being eaten by the strong.  Lol @ the position that only those exactly as weak as one's self should be protected by law, and the law of the jungle should apply to anyone weaker.

You do realize that in all factuality... This kid is a buffoon.

If you can't read a tape measure (something they teach in the 3rd grade) then you fail at life and just suck.

Shockwave

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #160 on: January 05, 2014, 08:22:31 AM »
You do realize that in all factuality... This kid is a buffoon.

If you can't read a tape measure (something they teach in the 3rd grade) then you fail at life and just suck.
this. Hes doomed to work some mundane job making minimum wage because frankly thats all hes worth.

Slapper

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #161 on: January 05, 2014, 08:24:43 AM »


You're so god-dammed dumb you can't even quote people.

This is how you do it:

Quote
what I said that got your nipples hard goes here.

Whatever dumb shit you choose to say here (outside of the quotes).

Tapeworm

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #162 on: January 05, 2014, 09:04:16 AM »
There are plenty of govt programs to assist a person such as the one you described. We dont have to raise the minimum wage so that the VAST VAST MAJORITY of people who do have the ability to do better can get bailed out of the shitty ass decisions they have made.

Help out the ones with an IQ of 80 and those with an IQ of 81 are the new bottom earners.  There's always going to be a bottom class incapable of advancement.  If they're willing to work a full time job then they should be able to eat and keep a roof over themselves.  Anything less is uncivilized and something I'd expect to find in the third world.

What does the guy who went to Yale and makes $50m a year think of us?  We're a bunch of drones.  Mice in a wheel, year after year, just marking time, hopeless fucks incapable of advancement, doing nothing to improve the world or better mankind.  He probably thinks we should all be knocked off in order to make way for superior humans like him.  

Yeah, a lot of people need to get off their ass.  (I've been pretty complacent recently and need to get off MY ass.)  A minimum wage which you can't live on in a job with little hope for advancement and zero social cachet like fast food isn't a very motivating prospect, however, and everyone in this thread agrees they're so glad they make more than that.  But hey, what's the deal with all those defective fuck welfare cases and crack dealers?

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #163 on: January 05, 2014, 09:12:14 AM »
Help out the ones with an IQ of 80 and those with an IQ of 81 are the new bottom earners.  There's always going to be a bottom class incapable of advancement.  If they're willing to work a full time job then they should be able to eat and keep a roof over themselves.  Anything less is uncivilized and something I'd expect to find in the third world.

What does the guy who went to Yale and makes $50m a year think of us?  We're a bunch of drones.  Mice in a wheel, year after year, just marking time, hopeless fucks incapable of advancement, doing nothing to improve the world or better mankind.  He probably thinks we should all be knocked off in order to make way for superior humans like him. 

Yeah, a lot of people need to get off their ass.  (I've been pretty complacent recently and need to get off MY ass.)  A minimum wage which you can't live on in a job with little hope for advancement and zero social cachet like fast food isn't a very motivating prospect, however, and everyone in this thread agrees they're so glad they make more than that.  But hey, what's the deal with all those defective fuck welfare cases and crack dealers?
As we have already pointed out in this thread MANY MANY TIMES

a SINGLE person working full time making minimum wage is ABOVE THE POVERTY LINE...

you can live off of the minimum wage!!! its not a great life but then again its not meant to be...

Tapeworm

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #164 on: January 05, 2014, 09:14:29 AM »
this. Hes doomed to work some mundane job making minimum wage because frankly thats all hes worth.

"Worth" is a big notion.  Based on his replaceability?  Or the value of what he produces vs what he consumes?  Does he have some innate moral worth or is it measured strictly in dollars?  Etc.

I reckon it like this: Define shit however, there's always going to be a below average half.  By definition, they are a drain on the above average half.  If you're lucky enough to be above average, it suits you better to be grateful than resentful. 

Naturally, I'm one of the grateful.  ;D

Tapeworm

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #165 on: January 05, 2014, 09:18:30 AM »
As we have already pointed out in this thread MANY MANY TIMES

a SINGLE person working full time making minimum wage is ABOVE THE POVERTY LINE...

you can live off of the minimum wage!!! its not a great life but then again its not meant to be...

In the 50s the milkman could send his kids to college while his wife stayed at home.  Now, he has to throw them all off a bridge to keep himself fed.  Awesome progress.

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #166 on: January 05, 2014, 09:24:09 AM »
Minimum wage?  I havent worried about that since I was a teenager.  Any adult concerned about it has had life stomp their ass. 

Tapeworm

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #167 on: January 05, 2014, 09:26:38 AM »
No, I didn't hire the stupid kid on even tho I claim he has a right to an income.



Are you people even awake out there or what?  :o

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #168 on: January 05, 2014, 09:37:02 AM »
"Worth" is a big notion.  Based on his replaceability?  Or the value of what he produces vs what he consumes?  Does he have some innate moral worth or is it measured strictly in dollars?  Etc.

I reckon it like this: Define shit however, there's always going to be a below average half.  By definition, they are a drain on the above average half.  If you're lucky enough to be above average, it suits you better to be grateful than resentful. 

Naturally, I'm one of the grateful.  ;D
worth as in, he cannot learn or retain anything that will allow him to compile a skill set deemed valuable to a company... therefore his worth in the business world is damned to be the minimum wage allowable by law, as hes obviously in the extreme bottom bracket of employees. These people are never going to be able to do anything more than pushing a broom or hitting a 'start' button, so why should he earn anywhere near what others earn, who actually have skills, or are motivated to learn, or have natural talent?

 I understand your moral grandsranding but the fact is as an employee hes next to worthless to 99% of employees, and giving him a wage that rivals what people that have spent time, money, and effort  to acquire just because 'its unfair that he doesnt make enough to live a comfortable life like we do' is, in fact, unfair to those that have excelled or out in the time and effort.

it would be just as unfair if I demanded to make 45 an hour because the 'ive league guy has a million dollar house so why cant I?'
People are not created equal, and people don't deserve to make a certain amount just 'because its uncivilized, dammit'.

Youre not bringing them up to a decent life, youre bringing all those that have worked their ass off down to the lower class with the dipshit that cant read a tape measure.

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #169 on: January 05, 2014, 09:39:25 AM »
There are laws of Economics which are as unalterable as the law of gravity.

One of these laws states that there is a relationship between price and demand. If the price of something goes  high enough demand will drop.

This holds true for labor, as well. If you increase the price of labor, employers will demand less of it.

If you raise the minimum wage, you will help some, but their gain will come at the expense of the newly unemployed.

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #170 on: January 05, 2014, 10:03:14 AM »
"Worth" is a big notion.  Based on his replaceability?  Or the value of what he produces vs what he consumes?  Does he have some innate moral worth or is it measured strictly in dollars?  Etc.

I reckon it like this: Define shit however, there's always going to be a below average half.  By definition, they are a drain on the above average half.  If you're lucky enough to be above average, it suits you better to be grateful than resentful. 

Naturally, I'm one of the grateful.  ;D
what i find just extremely hypocritical is if an above average half points out the below average half's shitt decisions, unwillingness to work hard and do whats necessary to get ahead they are resentful.

If the below average have complains about the wages they get while not doing anything to obtain a better job and wages they are just wanting equality

If you really want to see resentment look at the below average half.

tonymctones

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #171 on: January 05, 2014, 10:06:05 AM »
In the 50s the milkman could send his kids to college while his wife stayed at home.  Now, he has to throw them all off a bridge to keep himself fed.  Awesome progress.
First do you have any data at all to back up your claim?

I have plenty of data to show that the "poor" people in the US first have it much better than other "poor" people around the world. Also that they spend frivolously and make horrible life decisions.

P.S. a professional delivery man which is the the basic equivilent to a milk man today can actually make a good living.

Tapeworm

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #172 on: January 05, 2014, 10:39:01 AM »
worth as in, he cannot learn or retain anything that will allow him to compile a skill set deemed valuable to a company... therefore his worth in the business world is damned to be the minimum wage allowable by law, as hes obviously in the extreme bottom bracket of employees. These people are never going to be able to do anything more than pushing a broom or hitting a 'start' button, so why should he earn anywhere near what others earn, who actually have skills, or are motivated to learn, or have natural talent?

 I understand your moral grandsranding but the fact is as an employee hes next to worthless to 99% of employees, and giving him a wage that rivals what people that have spent time, money, and effort  to acquire just because 'its unfair that he doesnt make enough to live a comfortable life like we do' is, in fact, unfair to those that have excelled or out in the time and effort.

it would be just as unfair if I demanded to make 45 an hour because the 'ive league guy has a million dollar house so why cant I?'
People are not created equal, and people don't deserve to make a certain amount just 'because its uncivilized, dammit'.

Youre not bringing them up to a decent life, youre bringing all those that have worked their ass off down to the lower class with the dipshit that cant read a tape measure.

Yeah, I've draw an arbitrary line, I admit.  A lean first world standard of living in exchange for 40 worked hours.  You could just as easily draw the line just this side of starvation, or a living that the milkman in the 50s enjoyed.  It seemed like as good a place as any.  I don't believe that someone can have my arbitrarily set quality of life on 300/wk, however.

But from a purely practical perspective, I'm not convinced that raising the min wage is bad for those earning more.  If your earnings stay the same in relation to living costs then you're no worse off, so why care.  Some argue that a better off lower class would spur the economy to everyone's benefit.  I'm not economist enough to do it, but there are countries where no one seems to be suffering ill effects of a more generous minimum wage, so I struggle to take seriously cut-n-dried economic opinions about dumbells sucking the place dry.  If anything, it would get more people off welfare and out of quick dollar crime.  

Who knows.  Ask 3 economists, get 3 opinions.  In the absence of a definitive answer, I'm inclined to lean toward "Be nice."  See the kind of world you want to live in and don't do things that destroy it unless there's absolute proof they are necessary.

Tapeworm

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #173 on: January 05, 2014, 10:49:57 AM »
First do you have any data at all to back up your claim?

I have plenty of data to show that the "poor" people in the US first have it much better than other "poor" people around the world. Also that they spend frivolously and make horrible life decisions.

P.S. a professional delivery man which is the the basic equivilent to a milk man today can actually make a good living.

No.  Data schmata.  No one can conclusively prove what the future holds if they increase the minimum wage.  And it wouldn't happen in a vacuum, so whatever fate would eventuate, paradise or doom, no one could claim it was more than a causal factor and even that would end up debated.

What I fail to understand is: Do those who oppose the min wage raise feel they have something to lose?  Or is it just a question of what min wage earners deserve in contrast to your earnings and perceived expenditure of effort?

galeniko

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Re: Minimum Wage - Depressing Numbers
« Reply #174 on: January 05, 2014, 11:06:40 AM »
minimum wages.

when too many ppl cant afford to buy stuff anymore, you have a problem.

but just increasing it in an unproductive job will lead to price increase of the end product, and then that product might lose against another product in competitiveness.

theres leeway, but must tread carefuly.

giving everyone 1milion usd in cash right now, could work out, under some rules, but ofc in reality it would never work bc the ppl are too dumb and selfish.but it could work.
n