Author Topic: Fear of guns leads to raid  (Read 699 times)

dario73

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Fear of guns leads to raid
« on: March 20, 2013, 05:23:16 AM »
Family’s Home Raided over Facebook Photo of Child’s Rifle
Posted in Top Stories | 0 comments

 Mar 19, 2013
By Todd Starnes

New Jersey police and Dept. of Children and Families officials raided the home of a firearms instructor and demanded to see his guns after he posted a Facebook photo of his 11-year-old son holding a rifle.

“Someone called family services about the photo,” said Evan Nappen, an attorney representing Shawn Moore. “It led to an incredible, heavy-handed raid on his house. They wanted to see his gun safe, his guns and search his house. They even threatened to take his kids.”

Moore was not arrested or charged.


This is the Facebook photo that led to the police raid.

A Dept. of Children and Families spokesperson told Fox News they could not confirm or deny an investigation or raid had taken place due to government regulations.

“The department has a child abuse hotline for the state of New Jersey and anybody can make a call to that hotline,” spokesperson Kristen Brown said. “We are required to follow up on every single allegation that comes into the central registry.”

Moore, of Carneys Point, is a certified firearms instructor for the National Rifle Association, an NRA range safety officer and a New Jersey hunter education instructor.

He recently posted a photograph of his son wearing camouflage and holding his new .22 rifle. The child has a New Jersey hunting license and recently passed the state’s hunter safety course.

“If you look at the picture, his finger isn’t even on the trigger – which is proper,” Nappen told Fox News. “If half of Hollywood could follow that rule we’d be thankful.”

Brown said their role is not to go out and search Facebook for photos of children holding weapons.

“In general our role is to investigate allegations of child abuse and neglect,” she said.

The family’s trouble started Saturday night when Moore received an urgent text message from his wife. The Carneys Point Police Dept. and the New Jersey Dept. of Children and Families had raided their home.

Moore immediately called Nappen and rushed home to find officers demanding to check his guns and his gun safe.

Instead, he handed the cell phone to one of the officers – so they could speak with Nappen.

“If you have a warrant, you’re coming in,” Nappen told the officers. “If you don’t, then you’re not. That’s what privacy is all about.”

With his attorney on speaker phone, Moore instructed the officers to leave his home.

“I was told I was being unreasonable and that I was acting suspicious because I wouldn’t open my safe,” Moore wrote on the Delaware Open Carry website. “They told me they were going to get a search warrant. I told them to go ahead.”


Moore took this photo of police outside his home.
Nappen told Fox News the police wanted to inventory his firearms.

“”We said no way, it’s not happening,” he said. “This is a guy who is completely credentialed and his son is also credentialed.”

The attorney said police eventually left and never returned.

“He has a Fourth Amendment right and he’s not going to give up his Fourth Amendment right or his Second Amendment right,” he said. “They didn’t have a warrant – so see you later.”

Brown told Fox News that it’s “prudent and wise to protect children.”

“In many cases we may follow up on something and we don’t find any problems and the case is closed,” she said.

But the person who reported the false allegations of abuse cannot be held liable, she noted.

“You can’t be prosecuted for making an allegation of child abuse –even if it’s false,” she said.

Nappen said what happened to the Moore family should serve as a warning to gun owners across the nation.

“To make someone go through this because he posted a picture of his son with a .22 rifle on his Facebook page is pretty outrageous,” he said. “Does that mean that anyone who posts a picture like that has to consent to a home inspection and a gun inspection? I don’t think so.”

Nappen said they are considering taking legal action against the state for the late night raid.

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/familys-home-raided-over-facebook-photo-of-childs-rifle.html


Soul Crusher

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Re: Fear of guns leads to invasion of privacy
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2013, 05:25:19 AM »
I hope they sue the fucking shit out of the pofs govt agencies - all of them 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Fear of guns leads to raid
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2013, 06:02:05 AM »
If we're going to live in times where the government rambunctiously encourages people to make allegations to law enforcement without being fully informed, then it's only fair that those who make false allegations endangering the accused be subject to prosecution too.

Once again, as I have pointed out in the past; this is another case proving the stupidity of citizen snitch programs.

I have no problem with people reporting real crime when they know it's happening, but this is the kind of shit you get when you have the government pushing paranoia on the citizens.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Fear of guns leads to raid
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2013, 06:20:59 AM »
If we're going to live in times where the government rambunctiously encourages people to make allegations to law enforcement without being fully informed, then it's only fair that those who make false allegations endangering the accused be subject to prosecution too.

Once again, as I have pointed out in the past; this is another case proving the stupidity of citizen snitch programs.

I have no problem with people reporting real crime when they know it's happening, but this is the kind of shit you get when you have the government pushing paranoia on the citizens.

It was a .22.  Would the same pofs report this photo i the kid was holding a Ruger 10/22? 

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Fear of guns leads to raid
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2013, 07:07:21 AM »
It was a .22.  Would the same pofs report this photo i the kid was holding a Ruger 10/22? 

Probably.  Doesn't matter what it was the idiot who reported it probably has no idea what kind of gun is which.   What they should do is bill the idiot who reported this for the man hours and expenses that were required for them to go there and get sent away with their asses in their hands. 

whork

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Re: Fear of guns leads to raid
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2013, 08:58:43 AM »
Family’s Home Raided over Facebook Photo of Child’s Rifle
Posted in Top Stories | 0 comments

 Mar 19, 2013
By Todd Starnes

New Jersey police and Dept. of Children and Families officials raided the home of a firearms instructor and demanded to see his guns after he posted a Facebook photo of his 11-year-old son holding a rifle.

“Someone called family services about the photo,” said Evan Nappen, an attorney representing Shawn Moore. “It led to an incredible, heavy-handed raid on his house. They wanted to see his gun safe, his guns and search his house. They even threatened to take his kids.”

Moore was not arrested or charged.


This is the Facebook photo that led to the police raid.

A Dept. of Children and Families spokesperson told Fox News they could not confirm or deny an investigation or raid had taken place due to government regulations.

“The department has a child abuse hotline for the state of New Jersey and anybody can make a call to that hotline,” spokesperson Kristen Brown said. “We are required to follow up on every single allegation that comes into the central registry.”

Moore, of Carneys Point, is a certified firearms instructor for the National Rifle Association, an NRA range safety officer and a New Jersey hunter education instructor.

He recently posted a photograph of his son wearing camouflage and holding his new .22 rifle. The child has a New Jersey hunting license and recently passed the state’s hunter safety course.

“If you look at the picture, his finger isn’t even on the trigger – which is proper,” Nappen told Fox News. “If half of Hollywood could follow that rule we’d be thankful.”

Brown said their role is not to go out and search Facebook for photos of children holding weapons.

“In general our role is to investigate allegations of child abuse and neglect,” she said.

The family’s trouble started Saturday night when Moore received an urgent text message from his wife. The Carneys Point Police Dept. and the New Jersey Dept. of Children and Families had raided their home.

Moore immediately called Nappen and rushed home to find officers demanding to check his guns and his gun safe.

Instead, he handed the cell phone to one of the officers – so they could speak with Nappen.

“If you have a warrant, you’re coming in,” Nappen told the officers. “If you don’t, then you’re not. That’s what privacy is all about.”

With his attorney on speaker phone, Moore instructed the officers to leave his home.

“I was told I was being unreasonable and that I was acting suspicious because I wouldn’t open my safe,” Moore wrote on the Delaware Open Carry website. “They told me they were going to get a search warrant. I told them to go ahead.”


Moore took this photo of police outside his home.
Nappen told Fox News the police wanted to inventory his firearms.

“”We said no way, it’s not happening,” he said. “This is a guy who is completely credentialed and his son is also credentialed.”

The attorney said police eventually left and never returned.

“He has a Fourth Amendment right and he’s not going to give up his Fourth Amendment right or his Second Amendment right,” he said. “They didn’t have a warrant – so see you later.”

Brown told Fox News that it’s “prudent and wise to protect children.”

“In many cases we may follow up on something and we don’t find any problems and the case is closed,” she said.

But the person who reported the false allegations of abuse cannot be held liable, she noted.

“You can’t be prosecuted for making an allegation of child abuse –even if it’s false,” she said.

Nappen said what happened to the Moore family should serve as a warning to gun owners across the nation.

“To make someone go through this because he posted a picture of his son with a .22 rifle on his Facebook page is pretty outrageous,” he said. “Does that mean that anyone who posts a picture like that has to consent to a home inspection and a gun inspection? I don’t think so.”

Nappen said they are considering taking legal action against the state for the late night raid.

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/familys-home-raided-over-facebook-photo-of-childs-rifle.html



Stories like these make you appreciate cops.

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Fear of guns leads to raid
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2013, 04:30:19 PM »
There's an obligation to follow up on such contacts.  The immediate follow up, of course, would have been to examine the picture.  The excuse for the rest of it would involve the question about whether children in the household were "playing with guns" in such a way that would present a danger.

As sad as it is, and as ridiculously over-reactive as it was, it can't be unexpected.  The parent who posted the picture should have realized that something dramatic may happen.  

Maybe this will convince them to never give the police an inch.  People will learn it, one way or another.

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Fear of guns leads to raid
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2013, 04:33:29 PM »
Had a parent been in the picture, it would have made it much more difficult for the police to decide to raid.

Skip8282

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Re: Fear of guns leads to raid
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2013, 05:53:04 PM »
NJ has plenty of hunters and it's not like pics like this are uncommon amongst hunters.

I'd like to know what the person who filed the complaint actually alledged.  I wouldn't think the cops would show up just for that pic.  Maybe...but the complaint may have been exaggerated as well.

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Fear of guns leads to raid
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2013, 07:10:44 PM »
NJ has plenty of hunters and it's not like pics like this are uncommon amongst hunters.

I'd like to know what the person who filed the complaint actually alledged.  I wouldn't think the cops would show up just for that pic.  Maybe...but the complaint may have been exaggerated as well.

It may have been a call simply to report the picture.  That's all it would take, anyway.  Crazy, but true.  There is an obligation to have some investigation.

Obviously, if the commanding officer had been sane, it would have been handled with a quiet phone call to the parents for an explanation.

(By the way, I'd have a hard time believing that there wasn't some explanation provided with the posting of the picture.  But cops like drama, and they're often bored, so something's gonna give in such a situation.)

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Fear of guns leads to raid
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2013, 07:23:07 PM »
By the way, again, let no one think that cops don't troll facebook and other sites for "cause" to act upon people.  It's absolutely possible that it was the police themselves that called this in.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Fear of guns leads to raid
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2013, 02:48:01 PM »
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8
 
12,644 Homicides in 2011.
 
323 From "All Rifles" which includes "Scary Looking Mock Up Assault Semi-Automatic Rifles".
 
Need a Knives & Cutting Instruments Ban because there were more homicides 1,694 with Knives than All Rifles at 323.
 
Need a Personal Weapons Ban because there were more homicides at 728 than All Rifles at 323.
 
Need a Blunt Weapon Ban because there were 496 Homicides which is greater than All Rifles at 323.

Skip8282

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Re: Fear of guns leads to raid
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2013, 04:24:37 PM »
Christie has ordered an investigation into the response.  Gonna love seeing the results.

haha...here comes the blue wall (that I've been told doesn't exist) ::)